List out what I need

[kyonu]

Hey folks, so I am finally getting into my Class C and need to get the ball rolling on upgrades.

If anyone doesn't mind, can you list out exactly what pieces to a solar kit you need?

I made a post about this a couple months back and got really good advise, but since it's been a few months some things might have changed.

Here's what I know i'll need:

1. MPPT 60 Amp Charge controller (just trying get the best I can!)
2. Renogy Monochrystalline solar panels (I'm looking at 100w or 160w kits up to 600 to 800 watts)
3. Looking at 600 to 800 amp hours in batteries. Probably get 125ah 6v batteries, which means I will need about 12 of them
4. 2000 watt Pure Sine Wave inverter
5. Guage cables depending on the solar requirement.

What else do I need? I will have a budget of around $4000 to $7000 depending on the RV I get, so what's the best I can get around that range?

I will be hooked up to shore power for most of the time initially (around a year) while I hook it up and get used to everything, so I have time to build it out correctly. I just need to order it when I get my new home because it'll have to be a part of the purchase invoice!

Thanks in advance!

 

[highdesertranger]

ok I will bite. why so much battery? where are you going to put all those batteries in a class c? I just want a little more info I can't remember your other post about this. btw I am not talking smack just wanted a little more info. you should have one watt of solar for every amp/hr of battery. so either you are short on the solar or have to much battery. highdesertranger

 

[Seraphim]

I posted a link to the Renogy kits. They pretty much provide everything but battery, battery cables and fuses. They have up to 400 watt kits. Just ordered one. Call them, and they'll design a kit for your needs and wants. A lot of their prices just went down.

Like HDR I wondered about your battery usage.

How many amp hours do you plan to use a day? How many hours of sunlight of you plan on having available? How much driving do you plan to do a day? All relevant questions.

---

Also, why MPPT if you're using 12 volt panels, which I think is all Renogy provides...

 

[akrvbob]

You definitely want MPPT. Panels are 12 volt in name only (nominal). Those Renology panels are actually almost 19 volt. Your cheap controller will never put in more than 14.5 volts so all the volts between 14.5 and 19 are simply down the toilet. The panel creates them, but the battery never gets them.

I can't understand why anybody would buy a PWM controller. You save a few bucks in the beginning but throw away all that power

Kyonu, if I were you I'd go to Northern Arizona Wind and Sun, tell them what you want and get it all from them. Maybe not the batteries, probably not worth the shipping.

Here are their solar panels:
http://www.solar-electric.com/solar-panels-mounts-kits-accessories/solarpanels/hiposopa.html

Here are there controllers:
http://www.solar-electric.com/inverters-controllers-accessories/chco.html

I know many people with the Morningstar TriStar and it's a great controller, but so is the Midnight Solar and Outback. You can't go wrong with any of them. I like Blue Sky for smaller controllers but I don't know if they even make a 60 amp.

The most important thing is to get up on the roof and make sure what sizes of panels will fit in your open areas. Bigger panels are cheaper per watt but you may not be able to find a place for it. You may be forced to use the 100 watters
Bob

 

[kyonu]

ok I will bite. why so much battery? where are you going to put all those batteries in a class c? I just want a little more info I can't remember your other post about this. btw I am not talking smack just wanted a little more info. you should have one watt of solar for every amp/hr of battery. so either you are short on the solar or have to much battery. highdesertranger

Well for one, my lady friend will be working from home, and we use our computers a lot. I am also experimenting with electric only fridge power, and 800ah should cover it for the fridge we're looking at.

@seraphim:

Read above and also look at Bob's post.

@Bob: Thanks for the info! Yeah i will be doing a lot of measuring before picking my panels, but 1 extra 100w shouldnt be problem with a flat roof on a 31 foot class C.

Also, am I missing any parts for a setup like this? Just wanna make sure I have my entire list of parts!

 

[christine]

You'll also need a way to combine all the cables coming from those solar panels going into the charge controller. You can buy a combiner box, or make one. I made mine from a Pelican case and some bus bars because the ones that the solar supply stores sell are way overpriced.

With a system like that you'll probably want to monitor your batteries. I have a Trimetric 2025-RV, made by Bogart Engineering, and a shunt. The wiring looks intimidating, but it's actually pretty easy, and it comes with a diagram.

If you get a battery monitor and a shunt, you might have a giant mess of wires coming off one side of the shunt. To mitigate that, you can get a distribution bar. $80 for a Blue Sea 600 amp PowerBar.

I used 4/0 welding cable to connect my batteries and to connect my 2000 watt inverter. 1/0 was too small, it got hot I used my 2000 watt inverter.

You'll probably need a 12 volt fuse block for your 12 volt appliances. Blue Sea makes good ones.

Switches. Lots of people don't use switches, but I love them. I have a switch for everything. I used Marinco 701 battery disconnect switches.

Make sure you budget for cable and lugs, those can get pricey, especially if you're connecting 12 batteries. The switches are $25 each, and if you get USB and 12 volt sockets, the Blue Sea ones are $10-20 depending on who sells them.

Hope that helps. All of the stuff I mentioned is "nice to have" stuff, a lot of people don't bother with a battery monitor, or switches, or a fuse block. It depends on your needs.

 

[kyonu]

Great info, thanks Christine! I'll start making a list there as well. That's exactly what I was looking for!

 

[IGBT]

I went with a 4000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter that runs of 24V DC and can use generator sharing to provide 6000 watts (ridiculous).

At 24V input you can use smaller wire from the batteries, but I used 2/0 cable for my 3 foot runs.

For solar I have four 270 watt monocrystaline panels bought on ebay for $900 (actually it was five panels but I am only using four).

I am using Midnite Solar Classic 150 charge controller and feeding it with 2s2p from the panels, or about 70V at 16 amps. It will charge my 24V bank at around 40 amps in full sun.

Right now my battery bank is somewhat small, but I consider it a starter system. It is two 12V Lifeline AGM 125AH batteries in series. I tap off of one of the 12V with a Vanner battery equalizer to provide 60 amps for my 12V systems without causing battery problems.

Total cost of everything was just over $4k. I love the Magnum inverter/charger. It doesn't even turn on the fan when running a 900 watt microwave for several minutes.

 

[Seraphim]

The only thing I've not seen specifically mentioned is a fuse between the battery and solar charge controller on the positive cable. Christine mentioned fuses between the panel array and the controller

Plus one on the Trimetric

 

[sushidog]

One word of caution is about weight. A system like yours will probably weigh about 1,200lbs (the batteries alone will weigh over 800lbs). Check the CCC of your class C to make sure you have this much carrying capacity remaining. The best way is to weigh your rig at a cat scale - the entire RV and both front and rear axles individually, and compare it to your axle ratings and GVWR to make sure you do not overload your RV and where you should put the bulk of your weight (batteries). Make sure your tires are in good shape too, (age is as important as tread depth) to handle this much extra weigh.

With a big system like this, you might want to consider a higher voltage battery bank and higher voltage panels. This will reduce the size of the wiring you will need, plus the panels will be cheaper per watt. Here's a good resource: https://sunelec.com/

Chip

 

[kyonu]

Weight would be a concern as I do have a 2009 Camry that I will need to tow with me (If I ever do with that car). Thanks for the heads up!

@seraphim: You're right! I will need some good fuses. I will search around for a diagram with this information. I'm a technical worker so feel comfortable playing with this stuff, but will still probably get it installed by a professional.

@sushidog:

I noticed on that website they have these:

https://sunelec.com/index.php?_route_=solar-laminate-136-watt.html

136 watts, rolled out and light weight, for under $100? That's some deals! I can get at least 4 of those on a class C! I will definitely look at what else they have!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

ok I will bite. why so much battery? where are you going to put all those batteries in a class c? I just want a little more info I can't remember your other post about this. btw I am not talking smack just wanted a little more info. you should have one watt of solar for every amp/hr of battery. so either you are short on the solar or have to much battery. highdesertranger

If you haven't alread done so; you need to start with your power usage and work backwards. Technomadia is 100% mobile and just recently installed 800W solar onto their bus. You might find their post informative:
http://www.technomadia.com/2014/11/zephyr-is-solar-powered-800-watt-rv-bus-roof-solar-install/
They also have some cautions about flexible panels.

...
I can't understand why anybody would buy a PWM controller. You save a few bucks in the beginning but throw away all that power
...

The most important thing is to get up on the roof and make sure what sizes of panels will fit in your open areas. Bigger panels are cheaper per watt but you may not be able to find a place for it. You may be forced to use the 100 watters
Bob

Bob, I respectfully disagree. For smaller systems (under ~600 Watts), it is more cost effective to put your money into more solar (if you have the room). For the ~$100 I saved by going with PWM for my 200 Watt system (and throw away ~2ah), I could add another 100 Watts (and gain ~8ah). For the OP, I agree that it makes sense to use MPPT to harvest the additional power.

Another thing you need to keep track of is shadowing. HandyBob did a good pictorial on the effect of shade on solar panels at the end of his 'Battery Charging Puzzle' tutorial:
http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/
If you haven't read through his posts, you should. He has lived for 15+ years off grid and knows his stuff. He rants a lot, but gives good information.

I agree with Christine: fuse everything. It is cheap insurance.
Get a Trimetric, so you can learn you useage patterns.

-- Spiff

 

[highdesertranger]

kyonu you are still way off in your solar watts to battery amp/hr. you said 12-125 ah batts = 1500 amp/hrs. you said 600 to 800 watts solar, you are about 50% short on your solar. highdesertranger

 

[kyonu]

Thanks for the info Spiff! I didn't see that Technomadia put out a new Solar guide just a few days ago. I will read up!

@HDR: Well the general idea was to make sure I can run everything except heated items (including stove, water heater and furnace) on batteries, which includes the fridge. Of all the units I'm looking at, the fridge requires a low amount, and the batteries should equate enough.

Also, I was looking at 12 6v batteries, which is 750ah, not 1500. Sorry if I didn't make that clear in the op!

 

[highdesertranger]

maybe you can give us a link to the batteries. something doesn't sound right. highdesertranger

 

[kyonu]

http://www.amazon.com/VMAXTANKS-Vol..._3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1416276545&sr=1-3

Similar to those. Would it be better to go straight 12v, or run 6v in series?

 

[sushidog]

Weight would be a concern as I do have a 2009 Camry that I will need to tow with me (If I ever do with that car). Thanks for the heads up!

@seraphim: You're right! I will need some good fuses. I will search around for a diagram with this information. I'm a technical worker so feel comfortable playing with this stuff, but will still probably get it installed by a professional.

@sushidog:

I noticed on that website they have these:

https://sunelec.com/index.php?_route_=solar-laminate-136-watt.html

136 watts, rolled out and light weight, for under $100? That's some deals! I can get at least 4 of those on a class C! I will definitely look at what else they have!

Yes, those are amorphous panels that work well in low light, high heat, and they are shadow tolerant, however they take up a lot of roof space per watt output as their efficiency is low. They are 18 ft long! However if all you need is about 500 watts then the cost/watt can't be beat.

Chip

---

http://www.amazon.com/VMAXTANKS-Vol..._3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1416276545&sr=1-3

Similar to those. Would it be better to go straight 12v, or run 6v in series?

Those are 225ah 6v batteries x 6 = 1,350 ah. They will do fine.
Unless you are talking about usable ah, then 750 sounds about right for a 55% discharge. For planning purposes most people use the 50% discharge level 675 ah) as the usage threshold. Though in practice, they can be discharged deeper occasionally, as long as you charge them back immediately and don't drop it too low too often.

Chip

 

[kyonu]

Okay, so I have a starter list of what I'm going to get:

Battery set
Inverter with currently appropriate wattage
TriStar MPPT charge controller, 60amp

What I've found that I need:

Battery Monitor with a 500amp shunt
an RV Breaker Box
DC Fuse Box
Solar Panels -- this is dependent on how much room I will have on top, so I can't look at this one yet.

Anyone know of any good breaker boxes and fuse boxes? Do I even need them? Also, I'm looking for the right type of wires I'm going to need for this build. Anyone have that information?

I will be looking at purchasable RV's this weekend, so I need the information before hand (if I'm actually making a purchase) that way I can put it on my loan invoice.

I'm getting so much closer!!!

 

[akrvbob]

If it were me, I'd call Nothern Arizona Wind and Sun, tell them what your doing and buy what they tell me to buy.

http://www.solar-electric.com/

The problem is they'll ask you first how many panels and since you don't know it's very hard for anyone to advise you specifically what to buy.

If anyone can, they can.
Bob

 

[LeeRevell]

Those are 225ah 6v batteries x 6 = 1,350 ah. They will do fine.
Unless you are talking about usable ah, then 750 sounds about right for a 55% discharge. For planning purposes most people use the 50% discharge level 675 ah) as the usage threshold. Though in practice, they can be discharged deeper occasionally, as long as you charge them back immediately and don't drop it too low too often.

Chip

The math doesn't work out. You'll have 675 total amp hours. Each PAIR of 6V batteries is connected in series, giving the equivalent of a 12V battery at 225AH. Three 225AH batteries equals 675AH total.