Limited slip diff or air locker?

[highdesertranger]

since I have a Detroit Locker I will try to answer. a DL can be harsh when it locks/unlocks. this can make a popping noise and can make your vehicle serve a little. it's not that bad but takes a little getting used to. notice the word "can" it doesn't do this all the time but it can do it. I would like to point out that DL's are very strong they are used in some medium duty trucks, they don't wear out and don't take any special care or fluid. highdesertranger

 

[UptownSport]

If you have a Dana 60 or 70 axle, you or the shop is going to need a spreader- no idea on smaller, or 80. & up.

And, unlike many repairs where you can get away with 'good enough,' it's a job that calls for precision.
My father bought a new van, and had gear ratio changed.
Years later, a piece of the rusty shim they used came loose, got in the oil groove for the diff pin.
Pin came out at 30 MPH ...
I'm sure you've all seen the rusty shims on shop shimboards...

You might think about DIY to ensure shortcuts don't occur

A 4x4 shop might be good

 

[MikeRuth]

a good read....http://forum.expeditionportal.com/archive/index.php/t-57696.html

Mike R

 

[highdesertranger]

here's a clickable link for the above,

http://forum.expeditionportal.com/archive/index.php/t-57696.html

highdesertranger

 

[Ballenxj]

Car has a Torsen type- It clearly works, and works very well.
It's also expensive, heavy, and noisy.

I'd never suggest someone install one unless they have a clear need, though.
Sorry, just not a soldier in the consumer culture.

A railroad jack and spade will get you out of anything- Cheaper, far more effective and versatile than a differential.

Yes, it works very well. Heavy? Don't you want weight directly over the rear axle? Before anybody says it, yes, I know the difference between sprung and unsprung weight.
I don't notice any excess noise from mine?
 The Torsen style Trutrac unit requires no maintenance, which cannot be said for most other limited slip units out there, so worth it to me.
A Detroit Locker is very good as well, but "is" a full lock up system, and will scrub your tires in turns, plus makes clunks as you drive and turn. This may be the noisy one you were thinking of. The Trutrac was very close, but does have limited slip sans the noise.
A spade and a railroad jack? Sounds like basic recovery tools, and I recommend everybody that travels the unbeaten path carry recovery tools of some sort. I keep a short D handle shovel in each of my cars. A Handyman jack would also be good.
The moral of my story? I want as much traction as possible so I don't have to use my recovery tools. They are there only for backup.
 One more thing, I'm careful where I drive. I see obstacles for what they are, and never try to push the limits. I've been places with an old 62 Chevy pickup that had factory limited slip that might make some scratch their heads. All the above conclusions drawn by me are from many years of driving four wheelers off road. I think by now I have a pretty good idea of what works, and what I don't really need.

 

[UptownSport]

a good read... . http://forum.expeditionportal.com/archive/index.php/t-57696.html

Mike R

It was a good read!
I think you all need a little more excitement in your lives anyways, LoL.
It strikes me the word 'dangerous' is a bit overused on internet forums.

How much rain and snow does one encounter in the Southwest?
I recall waiting for a bus on some road and could hear about a quarter of cars had studs, but that's further North, outside of Boulder.

 

[UptownSport]

Right, mine is a FWD, is a Chinese knock-off, and I have a manual- it makes lots of noise on downshift-
Most automatic drivers don't downshift, if i could be so bold as to say. So it likely wouldn't apply-
But I did disassemble it because it made so much noise- Nothing at all wrong.


It weighed exactly 5lbs more- relatively tiny differential- Just thought I'd mention it- but again, most van owners don't care.

Overall, I can't argue- it functions great! You don't want to turn sharply and accelerate- unless you're really holding on to steering wheel!
(Again, FWD)
It's very good at applying lots, and lots of torque to both wheels, and besides the aforementioned, you couldn't tell it's in there

One item that I thought about, it has a pack of bellevilles to pressure side gears against differential case-
I always wondered if that was to limit slip at very low torque levels- I didn't see those on breakdowns of truck versions-
Maybe I didn't look closely enough

 

[Ballenxj]

Right, mine is a FWD, is a Chinese knock-off, and I have a manual- it makes lots of noise on downshift-
Most automatic drivers don't downshift, if i could be so bold as to say. So it likely wouldn't apply-
But I did disassemble it because it made so much noise- Nothing at all wrong.

Are you saying your Torsen is a Chinese knock off? Also, it confuses me when somebody uses the acronym FWD, as I don't know if they mean front wheel drive, or four wheel drive?

 

[UptownSport]

Yes- Sorry- Always thought FWD=Front 4WD= Four
maybe a regional thing

 

[John61CT]

FWD is front, like Asian make vans.

I use 4x4 for the other

 

[highdesertranger]

the problem I have is when I was growing up there was a truck company called FWD. they built four wheel and six wheel drive trucks. there was a dealer not far from where I grew up. these trucks were huge and they had a big old FWD emblem on the front engine cover. so as I grew up I always connected FWD with big old, bad ass, four wheel drives and it stuck.

http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/Fwd-Trucks-For-Sale/search-results?make=Fwd|765313326

http://hankstruckpictures.com/fwd.htm

https://www.therecord.com/living-st...st-fwd-corp-sold-trucks-and-made-snowmobiles/

highdesertranger

 

[Ballenxj]

FWD is front, like Asian make vans.

I use 4x4 for the other

I've seen it used both ways, and I believe some Asian cars have FWD badges on their 4x4's? Anyway, I didn't know the Chinese made knock off Torsen diffs. If that's true, I certainly wouldn't base my judgement of Torsen overall by one of theirs.

 

[UptownSport]

I didn't know the Chinese made knock off Torsen diffs. If that's true ...

nice.



Found reason for bellevilles in a folder, is as suspected

These differentials are a torque biasing differential. If one tire has zero traction the other wont spin because zero times the torque bias is still zero. Granted this shouldn't be a common occurrence but the washers are there to give you a phantom grip type effect in those cases and still allow some torque to be transferred to the non slipping wheel.

I suppose no one actually disassembles new differentials so wouldn't know whether the Light Truck torsens have bellevilles, or other types of crude limited slip for the zero traction situation-
Strikes me most here aren't rock crawling or drag racing, but are hoping for help in a low traction situation.

 

[John61CT]

> Anyway, I didn't know the Chinese made knock off Torsen diffs. If that's true

I hope nothing I said would lead anyone to think so.

I meant minivans, as in soccer moms, all front wheel drive afaik, as opposed to normal 'murican RWD

 

[Ballenxj]

nice.



Found reason for bellevilles in a folder, is as suspected


I suppose no one actually disassembles new differentials so wouldn't know whether the Light Truck torsens have bellevilles, or other types of crude limited slip for the zero traction situation-
Strikes me most here aren't rock crawling or drag racing, but are hoping for help in a low traction situation.

I cut my teeth on drag racing all through the seventies. I learned a lot about traction, and lack of during those years, both on the strip and street.
I could usually look at a car and tell if the challenger would actually be able to run, or was full of BS. A lot of money usually migrated from those that where talking BS into the hands of those who weren't.
About which diff, post three in this thread says a lot. ----> http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...Wavetrac-on-Road-Course-track-time-comparison

 

[UptownSport]

Sure, drag racers don't use differentials, they use spools because a differential isn't needed for straight line driving.

But i think it illustrates that just because theres a thing people in extreme applications use, doesn't mean it's good for us in more everyday applications.

Aluminum retainers work fine in a TF FunnyCar, but won't work even in grandma's Valiant.

I do think a little better understanding of how factory posi style differentials work would change people's minds.
Your basic factory sure-grip or posi differential isn't just clutch behind springs, it actually more complex than that as to how it reacts to torque input (exceptions, as always)
And designed for everyday use ...
Clutch, cone-type, or plate LSD

 

[Ballenxj]

Sure, drag racers don't use differentials, they use spools because a differential isn't needed for straight line driving.

But i think it illustrates that just because theres a thing people in extreme applications use, doesn't mean it's good for us in more everyday applications.

Aluminum retainers work fine in a TF FunnyCar, but won't work even in grandma's Valiant.

I do think a little better understanding of how factory posi style differentials work would change people's minds.
Your basic factory sure-grip or posi differential isn't just clutch behind springs, it actually more complex than that as to how it reacts to torque input (exceptions, as always)
And designed for everyday use ...
Clutch, cone-type, or plate LSD

Auburn comes to mind when you mention cone type, and that is another viable option for people here. I actually like the way it acts on a street machine. The more torque you apply, ie pressure on the gas pedal, the tighter it locks up, but under light pedal it can act almost like an open rear.
The Auburn rear will hold up to around 400ish HP. I had one on an old El Camino.

 

[UptownSport]

Interesting, says they make LSD for both aftermarket and OEM.
Chrysler's Sure-Grip used cone clutches instead of clutch plates ...
You can get a spool (ahem) for the C-van. You have to wonder ...


I ground diff side gears flat and sold them for people who wanted to add a Ford S-spring to a different car- Didn't sell too many.
They were working as well as you could expect, then someone crammed a spring from an even larger differential in, and it destroyed the transmission ...


I also sold a 'fix kit' for said Chinese torsen. The bellevilles were cracked from the factory.



Very poor hardware and machining, but it's about only choice we had

 

[John61CT]

OT I know, but had to post it somewhere

Stock Subaru bests modded off-roaders

 

[user 37446]

Actually, if you look into the Torsen type, (mine is the Detroit Tru-Trac) you will find these have a reputation for durability. They have no clutches to burn out. IMO they are some of the best out there.
Link to one review. ----> http://www.offroaders.com/reviewbox/showproduct.php?product=252

What's that you say? Ice? Hmm. Watch the first minute of this.
https://youtu.be/G1RLCtQ2lBI
https://youtu.be/G1RLCtQ2lBI
http://www.offroaders.com/reviewbox/showproduct.php?product=252Pretty good to get out of frozen ice like that.

Look up “Detroit Tru-Trac Test” on YT, now that’s impressive...