Legality of RV parking

[Natgreen]

There doesn't seem to be a definite answer. There is no federal law. City ordinances arent really valid if they conflict with common law. Right? Seems like a huge grey area. 

I've been van dwelling for 3 years. I do a lot of on street parking in the city. I'm in Pennsylvania. I haven't had any problems but I don't trash the place and just lay low. I'm thinking about getting a 19ft class c. There will be no mistake that it is definitely an RV.

 

[WanderingRose]

If it’s posted “No Overnight Parking”, or “No Parking Between ... and ...”, that means you, and particularly in an obvious RV.

If you want to continue to stealth and/or fly under the radar, I would stay in your van.

That said, there are plenty of places to RV overnight legally, and for free.

 

[Natgreen]

Yea. See that's what I hear. But it's not enforceable. Like loitering signs. There is no such thing as a loitering law. It's just a made up legal term cops use to confuse people who don't know the law.

 

[Seminole Wind]

tell the judge you dont have to pay the fine on the ticket you got for violting a city ordinance because it conflicts with common law and let me know how it goes... lol

what IS "common law" anyways, define it legally that will stand up in court. from my studies, it is more of a doctrine. yes many of our laws in this country trace back to old english common law. but this side of the pond you will be fighting a paper trail of statutes leading back to the constitution. certainly in this country there are statutes that violate rights secured by the constitution. with enough time, money, persistence, and support they can be overturned. good luck getting a parking ticket thrown out...

there are federal laws that pertain, like regulations in national parks (federal land) and other federal property. there are state laws, even though most states dont have blanket laws forbidding parking or sleeping in cars and or RV's there are places controlled by the state that will regulate such activities. and it could vary from one part of the state to another.

while there is no, one single all inclusive law regulating where you can park and what you can do while parked. there are plenty of (some say too many)laws at the state and federal level regulating such activities on the lands under their control. you can usually find those regulations online for the various location you intend to visit. there are some national parks that once you pay the fee or wave your pass to get in the park there are plenty of spots to pull up in your RV, car or van and park for a few days or more. same with national forests, state lands, blm. not all of these lands are "way out in the boonies" but you do have to look for them and then check the regulations that apply. just because you find a plot of blm land in or near a city, does not mean it is open to 14 day camping. but it might be, i know of one such spot near tuscon az.

then when you drill down to the county and city levels the statutes codes and ordinances vary tremendously. % wise, there are not many counties or cities that have blanket bans on RV parking. some do, but most are posted, and a quick call to the city or county can find that out. some areas forbid RV parking, even just day parking in some areas. in coos bay oregon there are even signs on some streets restricting parking to vehicles under 5 feet tall! WTF? if you are concerned that there are retrictions on parking that are not posted then it is a simple matter to call the agency in charge. i often call and present my questions as if i am a concerned citizen that wishes to prevent parking. i ask what laws or statutes are on the book to prevent such actions. i also like to engage local law enforcement. if i see an officer parked not busy i will talk to them. i start out telling them i am traveling and would like to hear about any cool things i should check out, ask about any dangerous areas to avoid. most officers are happy to chat with locals and visitors. then after i have chatted them up a bit then i might ask something like, hey, i dont see any signs down at such and such a park by the river regarding overnight parking, would it be ok to park there tonight? or ask where a good spot to park for the night would be so you can stay in the area to enjoy their town the next day. this does 2 things, you get good local info on not just the laws, but what is being enforced. and it introduces you to them. that way later that night when they see you parked on the side of the road by the river, they are not suspicious.

so the simple answere is the laws vary from place to place. if you want to know, ask the county or city officials what the actual law/statute is. also you may find out some statutes are not being enforced, for now.

in some places and times, the over night parking or even sleeping in your rig is not prohibited by statute but you will draw the stink eye from the locals. then they call the cops and file a complaint(probably bogas) that you are a peeping tom, or laud and fighting with your girl/boy friend or something else. then the cops are already pumped up and if they want, they can find something, anything to cite you with. a citation for disturbing the peace beacuse you pissedoff the locals and didnt fair well woth the responding officers will still ruin your day

 

[Natgreen]

Yea. I take a different approach. I am sue happy with police.
Common law is basically federal law. It's what all states have to abide by.

 

[Seminole Wind]

Yea. See that's what I hear. But it's not enforceable. Like loitering signs. There is no such thing as a loitering law. It's just a made up legal term cops use to confuse people who don't know the law.

 it would be a "no loitering law" it is not "just made up" it has a legal definition

loiter. v. to linger or hang around in a public place or business where one has no particular or legal purpose. In many states, cities and towns there are statutes or ordinances against loitering by which the police can arrest someone who refuses to "move along." https://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1180

. some have been challenged on constitutional grounds and removed but there are many still in place. some have stood the constitutional test.

generally if a place is open to the public during the time you are there. and you are not violating any other legal restriction on the use of that place. you do not have to have a reason to be there, you can just loiter. if say this is a park and you are just there sitting in your car. constitutionally you dont need a reason to be there. you dont need to be picnicking or walking your dog. so a no loitering law might not stand up to a court challenge in that situation. do you have the time money and persistence to pursue that? while on the other hand if you are parked in a hospital or court house parking lot. both generally completely open to the public. if you are just sitting there with no reason that pertains to the hospital or court you might have a hard time challenging a no loitering citation. in every case i have seen or read a citation for loitering is preceded by a request to move along. it is not like you are going to be sitting there and have a cop come up and write you a ticket. they are going to come up and talk with you. then they may tell you that you cant loiter there and need to move on. you say thank you officer and leave and it is done. if you refuse to move on, now you violated the statute and they can cite you.

you can also run into loitering problems when you are in a space that is open to the public, even owned by the public but only during normal business hours. like court house parking lots. if you are there after the normal business hours and are asked to leave then refuse, they may cite you with loitering, they could also cite you with trespassing.

also private businesses have no obligation to let you just hang out on their private property, even if that property is open to the public. if you are not actively engaged in shopping in their business they have every right to ask you to move along. hell, even if you are actively shopping they can tell you to leave. so long as it is not for a few restricted reasons like race, religion, sex and a few others. but checking your email or loitering is not one of those protected reasons

even if/when all the no loitering laws are rescinded. they will still be able to make you move along or get cited through use of statutes that prohibit creating a "public nuisance" or "disturbing the peace" these are vary vague and use a lot of officer discretion. sure you might get it dismissed if you take it to court, but moving along might be less painful and costly

so for all intents and purposes, no loitering laws are out there and can affect what you do

 

[Seminole Wind]

Yea. I take a different approach.  I am sue happy with police.
Common law is basically federal law. It's what all states have to abide by.

time to go back and reread the constitution. the feds are severely restricted in what they can tell the states to do. only those things listed in the constitution can be regulated by the federal government, the rest of the powers are left to the states and local governments.

care to post up a link to a court case where you sued the police and won?

are you Travis Heinze in disguise?...

 

[WanderingRose]

Maybe it’s just me, but if police knocked on my door and told me to move along, I would comply.

 

[Natgreen]

I can't talk about 1. I have another pending case now. Once this one is over with I already have another in my sights.
Loitering is simply not a law. It was tried in the 80s to stop drug dealers and prostitutes. It was found unconstitutional. It hasn't been an enforceable law since.
I'm pretty sure the constitution says you have the right to travel freely at your own inclination.
I mean you posted the definition of loitering, but I never said it wasn't a word.

 

[Natgreen]

Maybe it’s just me, but if police knocked on my door and told me to move along, I would comply.

Yea. That might work for you. But me, I obey the law, not police.

 

[WanderingRose]

And maybe you just feel like arguing something today that those of us more experienced know is not reality.

Police have arrest powers, and if you think they won’t arrest you (or worse) for defying their instructions, you are mistaken.

But if that’s how you want to live your life, that is your choice.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Law, no law, I stealth with no lights on, leaving as little indication that I'm inside, if there is any possibility that I can be hassled. I get grumpy without a full night's sleep. Even in a Wal-Mart parking lot, I pretend I'm not there. My dog has been trained not to bark.

If by chance I am made, and he's with me, Hubby shuts up while I answer. Females in "rape vans" are far less threatening, I hope.
Ted

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Yea. I take a different approach.  I am sue happy with police.
Common law is basically federal law. It's what all states have to abide by.

Common law is NOT federal law.  Common law is prededent derived from judicial decisions (as opposed to statuatory law):  https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/common_law

And precedent is unique to each judicial district you are in.  With some very limited exceptions (National Parks, Indian Reservations, etc.) traffic regulations are left to the states and by extension localities.

North Carolina State Law: 
160A-296.  Establishment and control of streets; center and edge lines.
(a)        A city shall have general authority and control over all public streets, sidewalks, alleys, bridges, and other ways of public passage within its corporate limits except to the extent that authority and control over certain streets and bridges is vested in the Board of Transportation. General authority and control includes but is not limited to all of the following:
 . . . 
(5)        The power to regulate the use of the public streets, sidewalks, alleys, and bridges.

 

[Seminole Wind]

I can't talk about 1. I have another pending case now. Once this one is over with I already have another in my sights

so you have no wins? just a thought, but before you go stirring things up and boasting like a know it all. you might want to get a few wins under your belt to substantiate you cause. or at least cite some case law

Loitering is simply not a law.  It was tried in the 80s to stop drug dealers and prostitutes. It was found unconstitutional. It hasn't been an enforceable law since.

of course it is not a law, loitering is as much a "law" as is "murder" they are just words describing an action, i think those are verbs. there are still plenty of laws on the books that make loitering a crime in some situation. like i said, those may get challenged successfully but they have not yet. and the use of anti loitering laws will just be replaced with other laws like disturbing the peace and such if they need.

I'm pretty sure the constitution says you have the right to travel freely at your own inclination.

boy, care to quote where in the constitution is says that?

last time i checked Freedom of movement under United States law was governed primarily by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." Since the circuit court ruling in Corfield v. Coryell, 6 Fed. Cas. 546 (1823), freedom of movement has been judicially recognized as a fundamental Constitutional right. In Paul v. Virginia, 75 U.S. 168 (1869), the Court defined freedom of movement as "right of free ingress into other States, and egress from them." However, the Supreme Court did not invest the federal government with the authority to protect freedom of movement. Under the "privileges and immunities" clause, this authority was given to the states, a position the Court held consistently through the years in cases such as Ward v. Maryland, 79 U.S. 418 (1871), the Slaughter-House Cases, 83 U.S. 36 (1873) and United States v. Harris, 106 U.S. 629 (1883)

notice that the freedom, is for movement. especially from state to state. it says nothing about having the right to be or stay in any particular spot. so when the officer says you cant stay here, you need to move along. he is actually encouraging and helping you to exorcise your constitutional right to move along

 

[Seminole Wind]

well, giver hell and report back when you challenge the cops and win.

you sure you aint travis?...

i certainly would not be considered a cop apologist, i will hold their feet the fire when they are out of line. incase you have not figured it out. it is not the cops that put the signs up. nor are they the legislative bodies that "create" the wording on those signs. seams like you have a lot of misplaced angst. why should i give credence to any thing you say. you have already admitted you just throw stuff out there for a response.

i am done, come back when you have grown up and want to have a mature discussion. instead of just trying ti illicit a response

 

[LoupGarou]

When parking up in a RV, as long as you look like you’re on a vacation and don’t appear homeless and destitute, you’ll be fine. Putting some effort into the exterior maintenance will pay dividends.

 

[RoamerRV428]

class C will definitely draw more attention

but if you think you have rights against lawful signs and such....then park the darn thing anywhere and if you get actioned by police etc....fight your way out of it as you have been doing. Other than that, there are plenty of free parking/free campsites/free rest stops and more where it is not in violation. Go for it, get it out there, park it and see what goes down

 

[lenny flank]

City ordinances arent really valid if they conflict with common law. Right? 

You will learn quickly that this is not correct.

 

[lenny flank]

Yea. See that's what I hear. But it's not enforceable. Like loitering signs. There is no such thing as a loitering law. It's just a made up legal term cops use to confuse people who don't know the law.

Who on earth told you THAT?

Is this some sort of "sovereign citizen" horseshit...?

Reality is gonna smack you hard, my friend.

 

[cyndi]

Thread closed. Cop bashing and the like is not allowed.