Know Your Motor Oil

[Gideon33w]

10w30, SAE, 0w40, regular, synthetic blend, full synthetic, and the slew of additives ... What does it all mean and why should you care?

Well, first off, it should be said that what your manufacturer suggests for your motor is NOT necessarily the best choice. Many manufacturers design a motor, suggest a specific oil, and then later change their minds. Making the writing on your oil cap and the info in your manual obsolete. Plus, your specific use for your vehicle can greatly change what is best for it. The difference between best oils in Alaska and best oils in Arizona can mean the world to your motor.

Now, lets clarify the different between plain old dinosaur oil and modern synthetic. As your motor oil is stressed by heat and pressure it slowly breaks down. The long chain molecules which provide lubrication break apart and the cushioning and lubrication qualities of your motor oil diminish. This and particulates are the reason you need to change your oil in the first place. Synthetic oils resists this breakdown better and start with longer molecular chains. That makes them superior. Period. If you're driving around a winter beater car ... Who cares? But, when you are as dependent on your vehicle as we are it is WELL worth running synthetic oils. The extra weight we haul and long idle times makes them a must. 

Oil Grades: SAE single grade and multi grade. Single grade oils are the ones that say SAE and then a number. Multi grade oils are the ones with a number, followed by a dash, followed by another number. The difference? Multi-grade oils offer superior performance over a range of temps while single grade oils offer optimal performance within a narrow range. Stick to multi grade.

Oil Weights: This is the meaning of those numbers you see on the bottle. This is the SAE number on single grades and the FIRST number on multigrades. Bottom line is that low numbers are for cold temps and higher numbers are for warmer temps. The second number in multi-grade oils is basically denoting the range. The larger the number (and value change)the better the temp range it handles. 

Oil Groups: This denotes the contents of the oil as is often NOT listed on the bottles. Group 1 oils are dinosaur oils. The chains are not optimal but it's cheap. Group 2 is most of what you see at the store not listed as synthetic. The have been processed to form better/longer chains and do a better job. Often, these are sold as blends or partial synthetics. Group 3 is most of what you see at the store listed as synthetic. Strangely, these oils are NOT technically synthetic (just high percentage). Mobile1 is a group 3 to give you an idea. This is the group of oil I suggest. Group 4 is the really expensive stuff and is true full synthetic. Even I don't bother with these unless I'm towing constantly or it's for a track toy. High end Aimsoil and Royal Purple are examples of Group 4 oils. Group 5 is pretty much relegated to additives. These are highly processed oils which produce very specific qualities best used in limited amounts. Marvels Mystery Oil is a common Group 5 many have heard of.

Oil Change Intervals: The 3,000 mile oil change adage is from a bygone era. Modern engines and oils tolerate 5,000 miles between changes is the standard and a motor with good compression and running good oil can EASILY go much longer before the qualities of the oil begin to deteriorate. Keep in mind that the time you spend idling does not count miles on your odometer but does contribute to reducing your oil life. 

So, what does this all mean and what should you be putting in your engine?

Well, as noted above, I suggest ONLY Group 3 synthetic oils. To choose which weight I suggest following this chart specifically. If you're motor has very high miles or smokes a little on start up you can feel free to move down the list to give you a thicker oil.

But Gideon, what about additives?! I'm glad you asked. There is only two additives I suggest and I have used them for many years. Those are Marvels Mystery Oil (MMO) and Lucas Oil Stabilizer (LOS). Anything else should be left on the shelf. Every time you change your oil you should replace 10% of the volume with MMO and 10% with LOS. So, a motor which holds 5Q  oil will get a half quart of MMO and a half quart of LOS. MMO is a group 5 and does an EXCELLENT job keeping things clean and breaking down oil sludge. LOS is a VERY thick oil which is HIGHLY resistance to breakdown which helps provide additional cushioning properties to your oil.

Oil Filters: One could write a small book on the different brand of oil filters, what they contain, how they are designed, and what is best. I'll make it easy for you though. Fram Ultra (ONLY the Utlra models), Motorcraft, and NAPA Gold ... Don't use anything but these. Don't believe me? Open up an old cheap filter and take a look at the quality of the PAPER filter material. Trust me ... Use one of the ones I suggest.
 
A note: Every now and then I see people asking about how much oil they should be putting in their motor if they aren't changing the filter during the oil change. STOP DOING THAT. Filters are $5-10 so change the darn thing when you change your oil. There is NO benefit from using an old filter.

Another note: Many vans/trucks/rvs have oil coolers added. This is a great thing but you must keep in mind that this increases the capacity of your motor. Learn how much oil your motor likes to reach full and write it down. The oil cooler in my Mountaineer increases the volume by about 3/4Q. If I put in the recommended I'd be low.

One last note (I promise): Changing your own motor oil is superior to getting it done. Oil change shops use cheap filters and oil, wont put in additives for you, and are typically staffed by kids barely out of high school. They just don't care. They want you in and out. Especially if all you're getting done is a change (which is a break even for them). Changing your own oil allows you to make sure it's done right and lets you get eyes on your parts. You'd be amazed how often I've gone to change my oil and noticed something that needed servicing (like torn CV boots) which I wouldn't have caught otherwise.

 

[SternWake]

Where did you get the info that MMO is a group 5 Synthetic?

That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have read on the internet for a while.

70% Light Aromatic Oil (Pale Oil)
- It is a Naphthenic Oil, so while it oxidizes faster than a Paraffinic oil, it does clean and dissolve sludge and carbon well and cleans up after itself from any oxidation. serves as base oil as well. [Naphthenic oils have more solvency and are more polar (they are attracted to metal more), but oxidize faster.

29% Mineral Spirits
- Cleans Varnish very well. General cleaner. Also acts as an antioxidant.

38 parts per million (ppm) Boron
- AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant

900 ppm Phosporous
- AW/EP agent

1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.

Red Dye - for the color
- well this one just colors the stuff

I might use a small percentage of MMO in a sludged engine toward the end of an oil change, but never in a healthy engine's sump and certainly not for an entire oil change interval. It will thin the properly formulated motor oil, and since 30% of is is mineral spirits, Which will burn off quickly, perhaps requiring the user to add make up oil shortly into the interval.

SN grade oils limit the PPM of Phosphorus,(ZDDP) as it will cumulatively destroy the catalytic converter if the motor is burning too much oil, and all motors burn some oil. MMO has 900PPM of phosporus.

Mobil 1 oils can use group 3, hydrocracked oil, group 4 PAO and group 5 ester oils in various combinations to meet their required specs of the car manufacturer they are trying to meet. Automakers have various specs an oil must meet before it can be certified as safe for use in that particular engine. BMW and mercedes are among the most strict and the hardest for an oil to meet, and they do require the use of PAO and ester basestocks. But even ford chevy and dodge have gotten more strict in their requirements, especially on performance vehicles.

As far as i know only Redline uses a large percentage of group 5 ester oils as base stocks. These boutique oils are not cheap.

And Lucas oil stabilizer is junk. It has no additives. No detergents, no antiwear additives, no extreme pressure pressure additives, no anti friction additives, no antifoaming additives, nothing. No acid fighting ingredients, no antioxidants, nothing.

It is just super thick oil, thicker than most gear oil, and when added to properly formulated motor oil DILUTES the proper additives, and of course makes the oil into a much thicker grade, which might foam up when pumped by the oil pump. If somebody decides that their motor requires a thicker oil, then buy a properly formualted thicker grade of oil.
Do NOT add this crap to your motor, unless you have inadequate oil pressure, cant affortd a full oil change of 20w-50, or 20w-50 is not thick enough to maintain oil pressure, and are trying to quieten a rod knock to sell it to an unsuspecting buyer. LOS is the used car salesman's best friend. And of course, well marketed.

If I were looking for a vehicle and saw this Product in the seller's garage I would walk away quickly.


Does anybody here think foamy motor oil is good to have pumped into their bearings?

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/890132/2

The only Oil sump additives i would consider using are those by Lubro/Liquimoly, and I much rather buy a properly formulated motor oil of the correct weight in the first place.

 

[Gideon33w]

Napthetic oil is a group 5 and that's most of what MMO is. Yes, it is thin, which is why I suggest using an equal amount of LOS which is darn near gear oil thick. But, just as I stated, it's contents make it a Group 5 oil.

I've never had a motor in good health which had any more than typical oil consumption despite using MMO. Even if you were to lose 30% by volume, in a 5Q capacity motor at my ratio that would be less than 1/6th of 1Q lost by volume.

Redline is another example to pair with Aimsoil and Royal Purple. As noted, I don't use these in anything but race motors. There's just no need.

As stated, LOS is added for it's cushioning effects (and to balance the thin MMO) which is inherent with any thicker oil as a greater depth will be present. I find it especially helpful in Ford pushrod motors which are known for rocker noise even when just worn in. It also fights the dilution which occurs at a higher rate with our modern ethanol blend gas since more oil contamination occurs.

My write up told the readers to start with the right weight oil and I included a chart for it. Any assertion to the contrary is asinine.

Don't want to run these? Then don't. None of that changes my experience or my recommendations.

 

[Gideon33w]

A quick note more about LOS and its use. Lucas IS a bit sketchy on their advertising when stating that it's used in drag cars. It's use in drag cars is to fight the EXTREMELY rapid dilution that occurs when alcohol fuels pour down the cylinder walls past the rings and contaminate the oil. Not exactly a circumstance seen in your daily driver. That said, all motors contaminate oil and modern ethanol blends do this at a higher rate. Pair that with the need to balance out the thinness of MMO and I can see no problem running it (at the ratio of 10% by volume which I suggested). Especially given the longer and longer duration between oil changes now recommended when using modern oils.

 

[LoupGarou]

If your running a later model diesel with a Diesel Particulate Filter, make sure the oil meets low ash specification CJ-4.

 

[Gary68]

or in vandweller language

buy the name brand oil that is on sale and a good filter
those oil change places suck
if you have an engine without a catalytic converter a zinc additive would be nice
if you got the money amsoil is a lot better

 

[Gary68]

oh,yea,the term fossil fuels and from dinosaurs is actually not that accurate,yes there is animal matter involved but the majority of the oil,natural gas and coal is made from plant matter,think louisiana and florida swamps

 

[sushidog]

I have an 06, 2.4 cyl Chevy Cobalt with 375,000 miles on the original engine. Since it was new, I've used 5w-30 Mobil-1 full synthetic in it that GM recommends. It came with an engine computer which uses an advanced algorithm to determine when the oil needs to be changed. It considers not only mileage, but engine load, temperature and idle time in its computation. I usually change the oil and filter when there is 15-20% oil life remaining, realizing that the oil itself is perfectly good, but the oil filter only catches particulates down to a certain micron size and the oil gets more and more contaminated with these micro abrasives the longer I go between oil changes. This usually means that I change it between 7,000 and 9,000 miles, depending on if I am towing a lot or not. About 65,000 of these 375,000 miles were towing my 1,700 lb Aliner (700lbs over its tow rating) at highway speeds and in the mountains, so the engine gets a good workout at times. It is now just starting to use a little oil - about 1/2 a quart between oil changes but it still has good, even compression and doesn't smoke at all.

My experience tells me a lot more than theory. I know what works without being able to tell you the exact chemistry behind why it works, but I am a big believer in synthetics, as they have served me well since the early 80's.

Chip

 

[highdesertranger]

I will not get into the oil fight but, your filter choices you left out Wix. I only run Wix filters. BTW Napa Gold are made by Wix they are the same filter. if I need a filter and walk into a parts store I ask if they carry Wix if they say no I walk out. of course if it's a Napa store I know they carry them. highdesertranger

 

[Richard]

I have an 06, 2.4 cyl Chevy Cobalt with 375,000 miles on the original engine. Since it was new, I've used 5w-30 Mobil-1 full synthetic in it that GM recommends. It came with an engine computer which uses an advanced algorithm to determine when the oil needs to be changed. It considers not only mileage, but engine load, temperature and idle time in its computation. ...

My experience tells me a lot more than theory. I know what works without being able to tell you the exact chemistry behind why it works...

Just to clarify the context here, your experience is based on theory. Think about it...

The advanced algorithm in the engine computer presumably stems from research into the exact chemistry of oil. The algorithm does it's thing and decides -- based on theory -- when you ought to change the oil.

Though you personally don't understand the chemistry, you defer to the expertise of others who do understand it. Those experts wrote an algorithm and made it available to you via the engine computer so that you may benefit from the knowledge of that chemistry without having to understand it yourself. Better living through technology, as it were, even though we don't need to understand the theory from which that technology emerges.

To make a finer distinction here, it's not that your experience tells you more than theory. It's that your experience, which is based on theory, has been positive.

Sometimes, our perception is that two things are competing when they're actually complimentary (theory or experience). And, sometimes, our perception is that two things are mutually exclusive (again, theory or experience) when in fact both are relevant.

All that said, how does this sound: Your experience has been positive because it's based on theory. And, that's true even though you, personally, don't understand (and don't need to understand) the details of that theory.

In summary: It's not either theory or experience. It's experience based on theory.

Just clarifying

 

[ArtW]

I use Wix or the OEM filter,(in some cases the Wix IS the OEM, repackaged) with decent motor oil (not synthetic)
on vehicles with non roller valve-trains that means Rotella T, the only brand of 'Dino juice' with substantial zinc levels from the factory
On roller engines I usually use Super Tech or O'Reily brand
We used O'reily in my Boss's shop for taxis running 100k per year, and never had a problem with O'Reily, and it never sludged
We ran 4k oil change intervals, 16 k air, fuel, and ATF intervals (severe service, running a car as a Taxi) and got between 350 and 500k out of cars we bought with 60 k already on them from rent a car companies

 

[Ballenxj]

From what I've learned over the years, Wix is about the best filter available. Plus, I'm old school, I like names like Valvoline, Mobile, Castrol, etc. I also like to use an SAE number that suits my climate. 10-30 and 10-40, changed every 3,000 miles give or take. I'm considering going full synthetic like Mobile 1.
While on this subject, anybody heard of Essential Lube synthetic oil? A neighbor has been trying to talk me into using it, but I know nothing about it.
He swears by it, has gone to their school about it, and is a dealer for it. His being a dealer for it tells me he might be a little biassed towards it?

 

[Gideon33w]

I will not get into the oil fight but,  your filter choices you left out Wix.  I only run Wix filters.  BTW Napa Gold are made by Wix they are the same filter.  if I need a filter and walk into a parts store I ask if they carry Wix if they say no I walk out.  of course if it's a Napa store I know they carry them.  highdesertranger

I always see NAPA Gold at Walmarts and obviously NAPA. They have a nice contract so you know you always get Wix. Don't see plain ol Wix in stores often enough so no need in mentioning it.

 

[Gideon33w]

I use Wix or the OEM filter,(in some cases the Wix IS the OEM, repackaged) with decent motor oil (not synthetic)
on vehicles with non roller valve-trains that means Rotella T, the only brand of 'Dino juice' with substantial zinc levels from the factory
On roller engines I usually use Super Tech or O'Reily brand
We used O'reily in my Boss's shop for taxis running 100k per year, and never had a problem with O'Reily, and it never sludged
We ran 4k oil change intervals, 16 k air, fuel, and ATF intervals (severe service, running a car as a Taxi) and got between 350 and 500k out of cars we bought with 60 k already on them from rent a car companies

I love the added zinc but catalytic converter issues are a concern as well as the environmental. I will admit to adding zinc to track toys with race or no cat though, haha.

Hmm, I wonder what the O'Reily brand oil is since I'm sure it's just a repackaging. I've yet to have sludging issues (even on motors prone to it) but that might simple be from the solvents in the MMO combined with the fact that I like to use a heavy Seafoam treatment when I first get a new (new to me) vehicle. Also, when I pull pans to do gaskets I scrub the pans till they shine.

Ford mod motors (4.6L) mostly in Crown Vics for the taxi company? They will run forever with diligent maintenance. Saw the same miles achieved even in NY taxis which is saying something. Not the greatest transmissions though but 16k trans servicing is super frequent. Given the low cost of rebuilding/replacing and the high cost of ATF even I wouldn't do it that often, haha.

 

[Gideon33w]

From what I've learned over the years, Wix is about the best filter available. Plus, I'm old school, I like names like Valvoline, Mobile, Castrol, etc. I also like to use an SAE number that suits my climate. 10-30 and 10-40, changed every 3,000 miles give or take. I'm considering going full synthetic like Mobile 1.
While on this subject, anybody heard of Essential Lube synthetic oil? A neighbor has been trying to talk me into using it, but I know nothing about it.
He swears by it, has gone to their school about it, and is a dealer for it. His being a dealer for it tells me he might be a little biassed towards it?

Wix is the best for the money for sure. My father took an old cheapie filter off a car and ripped it apart when I was a kid to show me just how junky they can be then told me to stick with Wix. However many years later when the internet became a resource I found many people saying the same.

Living in AZ I only ever change oil weight once per year as it starts getting truly cold. Not enough climate variation here (or anyplace I'm likely to go). When I was younger and living on the east coast and driving all over I was using perpetually different weights but I might be up in Maine in Winter and down in the Carolinas in summer.

Haven't heard of Essential Lube. Hard to say if your friend likes it because it's awesome or likes it because of a cognitive bias which is common anytime you have an unusually high exposure level to something relative to its counterparts. You can find the specs on most oils online though and a little bit of research can decode what it all means. Providing you aren't like someone I know who posts contents proving one thing and then thinks they mean another   lol

 

[ArtW]

I love the added zinc but catalytic converter issues are a concern as well as the environmental. I will admit to adding zinc to track toys with race or no cat though, haha.

Hmm, I wonder what the O'Reily brand oil is since I'm sure it's just a repackaging. I've yet to have sludging issues (even on motors prone to it) but that might simple be from the solvents in the MMO combined with the fact that I like to use a heavy Seafoam treatment when I first get a new (new to me) vehicle. Also, when I pull pans to do gaskets I scrub the pans till they shine.

Ford mod motors (4.6L) mostly in Crown Vics for the taxi company? They will run forever with diligent maintenance. Saw the same miles achieved even in NY taxis which is saying something. Not the greatest transmissions though but 16k trans servicing is super frequent. Given the low cost of rebuilding/replacing and the high cost of ATF even I wouldn't do it that often, haha.

I've yet to have Rot foul a cat *knock on wood*
I'm not sure whose oil O'Reily packages, but so far I've had good luck with it, but NOT in the 4.6 mod motors, we mostly used Luminas and later moved to Buick Centuries
the few Crown Vics we had we used Motorcraft semi syn in exclusively, after the Taxi company discovered that using other weights / brands could cause premature timing chain failure
At the time many shops were confusing the 4.6 Mod motor with the Triton motors in the trucks and wouldn't do chains in them, Our shop was, at the time, the only shop in Austin (that I know of) besides Ford that would do chains
Chains were actually pretty easy, so we just grinned and banked, but we did inform our customers that, at least in CVs, we recommended the factory oil at the factory viscosity

 

[BadSaver]

They start with a based oil and then add modifiers. A type of modifier is called a viscosity modifier which elevates the viscosity index. These are often added to oils to make them multi-weight. When oil shears it is often viscosity modifiers breaking down. Some synthetic oils are designed not to need viscosity modifiers therefore they resist shearing. Oil weight is measured cSt. The weight we see on the label is a weight grading system.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

As oils get older they actually get thicker. This measurement is called NOACK. It is the evaporation loss. I prefer lower NOACK oils as I think they'll hang in there for a year.

The normal course of oil when put into service is to thin and then thicken (over time). You want to change your oil based on recommended miles or recommended intervals. Whichever comes first.

I don't think synthetic oils are better period. Nor do I think group 4 & 5 oils are too expensive. I've had synthetic oils cause seals to leak. Also, synthetic oils (base oil not modifiers) don't reduce friction. Engines seem to wear out the same (engines I've taken apart). Synthetics have their place. The are cleaner, shear less, better NOACK, etc. Meaning, you don't have to change them as much.

I classify oil people into two categories. Thick oil and thin oil people. Thinner oil reduces friction while thicker oil provide a thicker film which thicker oil people believe protects their engine better. So. I'm a thicker oil person. But, there's so much not understood about oil films. Car companies are recommending thinner and thinner oils. I haven't seen a statistic that indicate this is a problem. Nor have I seen statistics on which oil is the best.

But! By weight (generally), oil used in U.S. cars is thinner than oil used in the same cars in other parts of the world. Us thicker oil people think this is evidence that CAFE standards in the US, to make cars get higher gas mileage, is the motivation to use thinner oils. In other words, the motivation for thinner oils isn't because it's better for the car.

On the side of a bottle of oil you'll see a symbol that says something like Resource Conserving. This means it has friction modifiers added and the oil is thin (cSt) for it's weight (example 5w-30). If you buy an oil intended for a European Car, the oil cSt is probably closer to the middle of it's weight.

My advice, if you change your oil as stated by the manufacturer, you're way ahead of the game. As consumers, we are faced with so much marketing and misinformation it's difficult to rationalize all the time you'll spend thinking about oil and still not come out ahead.

 

[Ballenxj]

Wix is the best for the money for sure.
<-------->
Haven't heard of Essential Lube. Hard to say if your friend likes it because it's awesome or likes it because of a cognitive bias which is common anytime you have an unusually high exposure level to something relative to its counterparts.

He said Essential Lube is a hundred years old, yet I cannot find any information about it anywhere?
About Wix, I have seen the cut away demos showing the difference between Wix and others. No comparison in quality.

 

[BadSaver]

on vehicles with non roller valve-trains that means Rotella T, the only brand of 'Dino juice' with substantial zinc levels from the factory

I think it's not meant for cars with catalytic converters. It will damage the emission controls.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Rotella_T

 

[ArtW]

^^I've been using it in cars with cats for years, no problems yet
Experience over theory
Now, anything after about 96 (and much that is earlier) has roller valves, so those don't get the Rot