just bought a generator, hookup/ grounding ?

[666JTK666]

I am sure folks are going to say I should have done a forum serch for this info but I must not be asking the right questions.
I will be installing my new generator on a cargo carrier in the front of my van. should I hook up the ground lug to the fram rail or just leave it floating ?
The generator I purchaced is this one.
https://www.championpowerequipment.com/product/100302-3500-watt-digital-hybrid/

for me it looked like the best bang for the buck. I would have loved to have electric start but that feature would have cost me another 200.00 in price.

 

[jimindenver]

That's quite the neat generator. A 3500/4000 open frame inverter generator for $600. About the same db as the 3100i and the Honda handi. Can parallel to another for up to 7000w running for $1200. The parallel kit has a 50 amp plug.

For $600 I can see this generator becoming as popular as the original bullet proof 3500/4000.

As for the ground, check the manual or call Champion. I have never done anything but plug the generator in.

 

[tx2sturgis]

How will you be installing it? And what is the end usage projected to be?

Just setting it on the rack and straps to hold it? (in that case it's floating as far as ground)

Or bolting it down, metal to metal, u-bolts, carriage bolts, whatever? (probably will end up grounded by default)

And it should be grounded if you intend on hard wiring it to electrical outlets in the vehicle. If you are only going to be running power tools at a worksite, for example, then grounding becomes a bit irrelevant since the vehicle frame is isolated from you and the earth.

 

[tx2sturgis]

As for the ground, check the manual or call Champion. I have never done anything but plug the generator in.

Triple 6, I happen to know Jim is in an RV, and when you plug the RV into the genset RV plug, the electrical ground is established for you (from generator frame to RV frame).

30 amp RV plug and socket design provides, hot, neutral and ground.

50 amp RV service provides two hots, a neutral, and a ground.

 

[666JTK666]

How will you be installing it? And what is the end usage projected to be?

Just setting it on the rack and straps to hold it? (in that case it's floating as far as ground)

Or bolting it down, metal to metal, u-bolts, carriage bolts, whatever? (probably will end up grounded by default)

And it should be grounded if you intend on hard wiring it to electrical outlets in the vehicle. If you are only going to be running power tools at a worksite, for example, then grounding becomes a bit irrelevant since the vehicle frame  is isolated from you and the earth.

Ok I will be bilding an inselated doghouse that will sit in the cargo carrier out of wood the dog house will be sealed from weather mebby deck sealer or thick exterior latex paint or some other wood coating. the metal frame of the generator will not be maing any contact with the chassie or frame of the van. the dog house will serve 2 purposes 1.weather protection 2 theft deterence. the exact method of securing the generator inside the doghouse has yet to be determined.  yes I am planing remote exhaust out underneeth the the cargo carrier with a coupple of honda muffelers. As for the electrical hook up in the van I will be wireing up 3 outlets. I will be powering(not everything all at once) a room ac unit, a computer, TV , dorm frige, and in time and more money acumulation a battery charger and set of batteries/inverter.

 

[tx2sturgis]

This might end up like a motor oil thread, synthetic vs non-synthetic, or a Ford vs Chevy debate...which is better?

If you google this, you will come up with basically three answers. Yes, no, and sort of.

Grounding, not grounding, and grounding/bonding combinations. Online I even saw RVers driving grounding stakes into the earth everytime they fire up the generator!

Lets just be practical here.

In MY opinion, and what has worked well for me in at least 3 different situations, is that if you are just running extension cords and occasionally powering items that way, then a ground to the vehicle is probably not needed.

If you INSTALL outlets in the vehicle, with constant use of appliances and equipment in the vehicle, then everything SHOULD be grounded SOMEWHERE, for safety.

In my opinion, if you install outlets, you should also provide other safety items, such as fuses/breakers and GFI protection.

Others may differ and that's to be expected.

BTW I kept thinking....that poor dog! Riding up front in the wind and right next to the generator!

 

[Weight]

Safe electrical practices. Don't ground your generator using a ground rod. Connecting generator lug to vehicle is ok. There is a real-rats-nest of opinions about floating neutrals. It is almost a "gun thread".

 

[tx2sturgis]

Yep...there are situations where grounding can be good, or bad. Like wearing helmets on a motorcycle or bungee jumping.

So its up to the individual in most cases with RV's and vehicles in general, since there is no standardized national code that we are REQUIRED to observe and it will never be inspected by anyone, much less a city building inspector.

 

[Weight]

Do it wrong and it could kill you. But, we don't need electrical codes, no sir.

 

[666JTK666]

Thank you fella's.

 

[frater secessus]

Do it wrong and it could kill you. But, we don't need electrical codes, no sir.

Lots of things can kill you if you do it wrong. 

At their best, codes can provide a consensus of best practices information.  At their worst, codes can be a bludgeon for rent-seeking guilds and revenue-extracting municipalities.

I do appreciate the willingness of folks on the forum to translate best practices from code into information we laymen can understand.

 

[musicman]

I'm a retired engineer. It would be best if you would ground it to the frame. That's the point that all your electrical is grounded to as well. Additionally  if it's left floating,  it's possible to cause you some problems for your vehicle if your trailer is connected to the vehicle.

 

[Weight]

Uniform building codes, especially electrical, save lives. They are not bludgeons.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Possibly my post about building codes was misunderstood. It happens.

I was referring to home-built mobile (not a mobile home in a mobile home park) vehicles and trailers used for living space. There are no codes you are REQUIRED to observe.

Again HOME-built units.

In most areas, no city or county will require a permit, and no building inspector will demand to look at your work during various stages, or after completion.

Building codes are written for...well, you know...buildings!

If there is a van or cargo trailer build thread somewhere on the forum where someone was required to have it inspected, and submitted the van or cargo trailer to a local building or electrical inspector, I missed it.

 

[Weight]

I think electrical safety is as important in my van as it is in their house.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I think electrical safety is as important in my van as it is in their house.

But THEY dont.

So they let you do what you want.

 

[Weight]

even generator thread is turned to politics.

 

[user 37446]

Me thinks the point is in general, codes are there for people to consult and or use as a minimum for safety. Due to the presence of some flat out dangerous home brew builds in homes and commercial buildings, codes are a necessity, if sometimes a bother.  Ordinances, well, that’s a totally different thing.

Back to the idea of grounding, probably a great majority of gennies are never grounded when used by campers.  They just set them on the dirt and fire em’ up.  Just don’t lick the bare wires to determine if they are hot. 

For those preferring a more authoritative answer... begin quote below

“[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Do I need to ground my portable generator?[/font]
[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]Posted 06-19-2008 at 06:29 AM by heruide 
Updated 07-17-2008 at 09:34 PM by heruide[/font]

Created 4/08/09 ​

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]
This week I was going to write about one of the topics that generate a lot of disagreement among folding trailer owners – the BAL leveler. However, that will have to wait for a while as another item surfaced and I discovered it generated more debate than comparing a BAL Leveler to wood or Lynx blocks. 

This all started when a fellow camper ask if he needed to ground his Honda EU3000 generator. He had a grounding bolt but wasn’t’ sure if he should use it. Well I have the same generator and had seen the grounding bolt but I never did any research on the topic.[/font]

So it was off to Google and a search on “Generator Grounding” gave me almost a million hits. One of the first documents I read - made it very simple"... most people do not properly ground their portable generations as per code and manufacture's instructions." 

So if the code requires it then I need to ground mine. Right?

Well not exactly. Let's read the code:

National Electrical Code (NEC) 250.34 Generators-Portable and Vehicle-Mounted
(A) Portable Generators. The frame of a portable generator is not required to be grounded to the earth if:

(1) The generator only supplies equipment or cord-and-plug-connected equipment through receptacles mounted on the generator, or both, and

(2) The metal parts of generator and the grounding terminals of the receptacles are bonded to the generator frame.

Did I read that right? I’m using cord-and-plug-connected equipment and I know my generator had the metal parts and grounding terminal bonded to the generator frame… so I don’t need to ground my generator.

However, as I continued to read I discovered that there were some of my fellow campers who for safety reasons thought that grounding was required. So I wonder what OSHA had to say?

Under conditions that are the same as the NEC, “ OSHA directs (29 CFR 1926.404(f)(3)(i)) that the frame of a portable generator need not be grounded (connected to earth) and that the frame may serve as the ground (in place of the earth). “

[size=x-small]Thus, rather than connect to a grounding electrode system, such as a driven ground rod, the generator’s frame replaces the grounding electrode. If these conditions do not exist, then a grounding electrode, such as a ground rod, is required.”[/size]

 

[GypRat]

Generator's frame CAN'T replace a grounding electrode.
Vehicle's frame and body can't act as a grounding electrode either, for obvious reasons. If the generator has an exposed metal frame and it's permanently installed on the vehicle, then bond the generator's frame to the vehicle frame/body. Otherwise leave it alone. The grounds will be connected through the electrical cord. Adding additional grounding loops is not a good idea.
For electrical safety, consider installing an inline GFCI protector on the 120 VAC line between the generator and your vehicle.

 

[Weight]

One thing to NOT do. Do not earth ground a portable generator. No rods driven into the earth. No connections to water pipes coming up from the earth. If you want the extra short circuit protection in the van, it is acceptable to connect the "ground" lug to the vehicle chassis. But, Not Necessary.
If you are talking about a "whole house" generator mounted and connected through a transfer switch to your normally grid tied home or factory, it is a different animal.