Generator confusion and Gas usage.

[michaelf2780]

I am trying to design my AC system and trying to make my monthly budget as cheap as possible.  In order to cut future cost I am going to splurge more on building it.

Things that matter to me:
1:  Noise level.  I love quiet.
2:  How much gas it takes.
3:  Reliability.

I have searched on here and read hundreds of threads on various sites but I am still left confused.  I am a numbers guy and most information out there lacks hard numbers.

My first option is just a generator and gas.  My issue is the gas expense as I will be using it a lot as I will be in the Van much longer than normal while working.  I have read conflicting answers and until I know more I am stuck going further.

Question about [font=Arial, sans-serif]Honda EU2200i 2200-Watt 120-Volt Super Quiet Portable Inverter Generator[/font]:
1:  It list the gas tank size of only 0.95 gallons but then says it can run 4-9.5 hours depending on load.  I also read that a 2000 watt generator takes about 3/4 gallons to run per hour.  This confuses me as if the Honda runs normally can run 4 hours on 1 gallon of gas that is only 1/4 gallon per hour.  That is a major difference from one information source to another.  For those running AC at full power (in high temp areas) how much gas is your generator using per hour?

2:  Is there a better generator that is quieter and takes even less gas per hour to run an AC.

3:  I understand a typical 5000 BTU window AC unit requires about 550 watts and surges much higher when turning on.  I also read there are some AC units that greatly reduce the surges by slowly building up the required power.  This seems a great way in reducing the maximum power needed so the overall cost of the system can be reduced by purchasing a more expensive AC with this feature.  If this was true though I would have expected many more people on here to be talking about them but they are not which means there is a problem with them that I have not read about.

4:  AC surges and the above Honda Battery viability?  Again I read some who say they can not run their 5000 BTU on a 2000 watt generator and others who say they can.  I have read many people use 2 generators but is it instead possible to to have the surges handled by a Lithium Battery instead that is charged by Solar?

Ideally I want my monthly AC gas budget to be as low as possible even if I have to spend money to obtain that.  Some math below:
Lets assume I have 2 different generator options to run the 5000 BTU AC:.
Option 1:  Uses 0.25 gallons per hour.  (supposed rate of the above Honda Generator)
Option 3:  Uses 0.75 gallons per hour.   (supposed rate of 2000 Watt Generators according to some).

Running the AC for 16 hours:  [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Everyone will have different amount of time staying in a Van and I will assume mine will be 16 hours a day which will require AC.[/font]
Option 1:  4 gallons.  At $2.50 a gallon that equates to $10
Option 3:  12 gallons. At $2.50 a gallon that equates to $30

I am going to assume I need the AC in the Van for 90 days out of the year.  (some days the AC will run less and other days more but averaging it out).

Option 1:  $900 a year to run the AC. 
Option 2:  $2700 a year to run the AC.

Therefore if given the option I would much rather spend more on a generator that I can run on 1/4 a gallon an hour than one that takes 3/4 gallon an hour.  The amount more will depend on other factors not included here.

I am just confused on how much gas an actual good generator takes at this point and it makes it hard for me to budget.  A 1/4 compared to 3/4 will mean triple cost to run the AC.

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Lets assume 3/4 Gallon per hour to run the 5000 BTU AC.  Here will be my ideal system and need feedback on it.

• Honda Generator 2200 watt.  Cost $1200
• Solar Panels and everything required to connect to them (will get 3 or 4 of the 320 panels).  Cost $2500 (rough estimate)
• Lithium Battery.  340 aH.  Cost $3k.  Ouch.
• 5000 BTU AC window unit.  $1k  (not sure on price or which one to even consider).
• Other electronics run off generator/solar will be charging a laptop, phone, small TV.

Total cost $7,700 but i hope it saves me 1/2 my generator gas bill.  So $1,350 in gas savings a year, but cost $5,500 more than just an AC/Generator unit if I add Solar.  4-5 years it should pay itself off.

What I hope to do is charge the battery with Solar but normally run the AC with the generator.

1. Generator is on running AC (better if it can handle the surges by itself).
2. Battery reaches 90% and takes over the AC until it reaches battery reaches 80%.
3. Generator turns back on and takes over the AC.
4. Repeats this.

Not sure how that system works.

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[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Lets a[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]ssume 1[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]/4 Gallon per hour to[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] run the 5000 BTU AC.  Here will be my ideal system and need feedback on it[/font]

• Honda Generator 2200 watt.  Cost $1200
• Solar Panels and everything required to connect to them (will get 1 of the 320 panels).  Cost $1200 (rough estimate)
• Lithium Battery.  100 aH.  Cost $1k.  Ouch.
• 5000 BTU AC window unit.  $1k  (not sure on price or which one to even consider).
• Other electronics run off generator/solar will be charging a laptop, phone, small TV.

Total cost:  $4,500 but it will not save me much on generator fuel when I need AC full time but it will cover the times when I do not need AC and thus less power.

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Ideally I would really love it if the Honda really did take only 1/4 gallon per hour to Run the AC as it would make it much easier to handle and it will fit nicely in my budget.  The problem with the big Solar design is that when I do not run the AC I will be wasting power.

It will all boil down to how much gas it actually take to run the AC.  I spent time trying to find out buy it seems no one actually talks numbers or I missed some very important information somewhere (which is more likely).

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I also here mention of alternator battery charging in a few post.  I will drive at least 30 miles a day on average so will this be something I should look into?

 

[Weight]

The gasoline use depends on the load the generator is powering. The air conditioner will have a 2000W generator running at it's top end. Estimate your gasoline use based on the most gallon per hour. Honda and Yamaha are the quietest available, But Not Silent. Just the steady drone while running would drive me crazy.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I understand the confusion but you are kinda over-thinking some of this.

[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]Of course the right answer for most vanners and RVers is to move to high elevation and more northern locations during the summer season....but not everyone can do this, I assume you cant relocate..[/font]

Ratings among generators are not standardized in any meaningful way, and loads can be 25% or 50% at sealevel, or wherever the lab is, or maybe at 5000 feet elevation, who knows. Pure gas used during testing will produce better run times than ethanol pump gas that we use most of the time in the real world.  

Noise levels are somewhat standardized, but test conditions very greatly...was the generator on a concrete floor, or soft grass? Was the exhaust facing the other way? Was the generator under load or just idling?

Whichever A/C you choose, will most likely not need to run it's compressor the entire time, so after the interior has been brought to your desired temperature, the duty cycle will be much less and your generator will sip fuel in small amounts just to keep itself and the A/C fan running (unless set to eco mode)

Obviously the environment (hot or REALLY hot) has a lot to do with how much the A/C compressor will run.

I would at least look at the Champion inverter generators...some of them have remote start...which could be handy.

When I camp in hot weather, (which is rare, but it happens) and actually HAVE to use the A/C for a few hours, with the unit cycling and the 3500w generator (one of 5 various units) I have, it seems to use about a half gallon per hour, now this is a large generator that is NOT an inverter generator. An inverter generator will very likely use less fuel. You can't use what my unit consumes as a guide in your situation...its just what mine uses most of the time.

BTW you can buy what is generally called a 'hard start kit' and one brand name is called the 'Easy Start'...no I'm not kidding, but they are small kits that attach to the interior wiring of an air conditioner to allow a smaller generator to start the compressor.

So there is that.

 

[michaelf2780]

The gasoline use depends on the load the generator is powering. The air conditioner will have a 2000W generator running at it's top end. Estimate your gasoline use based on the most gallon per hour.  Honda and Yamaha are the quietest available, But Not Silent. Just the steady drone while running would drive me crazy.

This is where the confusion stats.  Honda states that it last 4-9 hours per 1 gallon tank.  Other sites states states the generator takes 3/4 gallon an hour which means it will only last 1 hour and 15 minutes.  Which one is correct?  I assumed 4 hours was with a heavy load (even though 550 watts on a 2000 watt generator shouldn't be heavy).  There is a major difference in stated fuel use.

Edited: tx2sturgis thanks. Yea I will not be able to travel to cooler climites because I will be traveling with predetermined places with the events I want to attend. This includes Vegas for most of June. It seems the entire summer the events are being held in the hottest areas and in the winter they are held in the coldest areas. I expect this is done to keep people inside the venues.

 

[B and C]

As Weight said and your research shows, gasoline use is dependant on load. Do the math of your load. The Honda 4 - 9.5 hours is 4 hours at full load and 9.5 hours at no load. A 5000 BTU air conditioner energy efficient model should draw less than a 1000 Watts. Midway between to numbers is somewhere around 6.5 hours but will be longer as the A/C compressor is not running the entire time. You are looking for an exact number that can never be achieved because how long the compressor runs is directly dependant on the temperature difference between inside and outside. This doesn't even factor in the variables of amount of sunshine and your changing charging loads with solar thrown into the mix.

One person's extreme gas consumption could be a choke left partially on at the generator or even an A/C compressor going out. Sometimes you have to read between the lines to kinda figure out what is going on.

 

[michaelf2780]

Not looking for exact numbers but more ball park figures. I used 4 hours for the Honda generator as the heaviest load when I know I will never pull nearly that heavy as a load. I was just confused when most other post I have read said they get around 1 hour and 15 minutes per gallon when the Honda got 4 hours per gallon at max load. I would like to build expecting the worst cast scenero (IE: Bad altitude, heavy load and bad weather) and the Hondas 4 hour is what I was basing it on. I know conditions can change but if I used the worst case it should only change for the better.

300 a month for gas (4 gallons that last 16 hours for 30 days) is doable. (what the Honda's worst case is supposed to handle)
900 a month for gas (12 gallons that last 16 hours for 30 days) is not doable. (what other post I have read mentioned is common).

Thanks for the replies and information. It helped and I just need to learn to trust online specs and trust it last 4 hours at heavy conditions. I tend to overthink everything and try to dig to deep when I should just trust more. Thanks.

 

[jacqueg]

I have a Honda 2000. I run it about 4 hours a day, and I worry that is too much. (That's how long it takes to keep my small portable power station (which runs my 12v fridge) and other gadgets charged up on Eco mode, which is the most economical mode.) I haven't measured it, but I think that I use somewhere between a pint and a quart of gas in a day. For an air conditioner, you'll have to run it on regular mode, and it will both be louder and less efficient than my use. The Honda should be serviced every 100 hours. At 16 hours/day, you'd be servicing it about every 5 days.

Hondas are quieter than other generators, but not silent. You'll hear it all right. Also, if you intend to mostly park in lots, as I believe you've said, you are going to be very noticeable, and I'll bet you'll be told to either turn off the generator or leave. Not to mention the exhaust factor - you'll be spewing exhaust fumes into everyone else's breathing space, and sooner or later, there will be complaints. (This might be different if you park in the casino's RV lot, if it has one. But keep in mind that most designated RV parking areas DO restrict the hours you can run a generator.)

When I first used a generator, I didn't know any of this either. But I do now, so I'm passing it along.

 

[B and C]

My 2800 watt onan uses about a 1/2 gallon an hour at full load AFAICT. Hard to really judge when it draws fuel from the vehicle tank. Big plus is I don't have to lug gas can around.

 

[michaelf2780]

Hondas are quieter than other generators, but not silent. You'll hear it all right. Also, if you intend to mostly park in lots, as I believe you've said, you are going to be very noticeable, and I'll bet you'll be told to either turn off the generator or leave. Not to mention the exhaust factor - you'll be spewing exhaust fumes into everyone else's breathing space, and sooner or later, there will be complaints.

When I first used a generator, I didn't know any of this either. But I do now, so I'm passing it along.

I never considered this.  Thanks and it gives me one more problem.  I am beginning to think i should just get an RV and pull it.  I do not like RV parks but If it is the only thing that really works I may just decide to go with that.  It does have its upside as I can pull it with an off road vehicle and I can explore more.  Vans seem like a novel concept but it may not be the best suited to my needs.

I will begin looking into RV parks and maybe my dislike is unjustified and I am overthinking how expensive they are.

 

[B and C]

A travel trailer will give you a lot of roof real estate to mount solar panels.

 

[highdesertranger]

I have a Honda 2200. I don't know where you are getting your numbers but they are wrong.

first, off the tank isn't even one gallon and Honda specs say 4-9 hours per tank, not 4-9 hours per gallon.
second, you didn't say what size AC you wanted to run? a 500 watt AC would be just over 1/4 load on the Honda. so as a guess I would say 6-7 hours on one tank.

another guess here, you are not going to be able to run the generator in a parking lot.

disclaimer I am anti AC. I say you have wheels, use them. go where it's not so hot and you don't need AC. however i do understand not everybody can do this.

highdesertranger

 

[michaelf2780]

I got the numbers from amazon specs when I click on it.  I rounded it up for simplicity sake as it was listed as 0.95 gallons and it is easier to just round up.  Where I got the 3/4 gallon per hour was searching google and it was the result and I seen it mentioned in a few articles.

I admit I never considered running the generator and the noise pollution it will cause not to mention the exhaust.  My ideal was not parking lots though or any "stealth" camping but going out in the country side and BLM and State/National Park.  The noise will still be an issue though.

I will be following a schedule and most of the summer I will be in very hot places.  Vegas in June, Texas and Florida in July for example.  My goal was not to hook up to anything to save money so my exploration budget increase but since I will need AC I will give up on the Van build and go with an RV trailer and hood up to shore power when it is hot and dry camp when is not.  There is both Pro and Con of switching from a Van build to an RV build so while I am disappointed I understand that is part of life.

I already purchased the 93 E150 and will still spend a few months fixing it up. It will be a great experience and I could decide to keep it and use it for after I no longer plan to live on the road for my weekend vehicle.  I will have a place to park it while I travel and may build a small garage to house it.  Or I may just sell it or donate it to someone.

I may even play around with a small solar setup and the alternator.  I have never worked on cars (never even checked my oil before) so it will be fun diving into something I have no experience with.  Only bad thing is the Van does not fit in my detached garage and I know the HoA just loves me having the Van in my drive way.  lol.  Luckily it sits pretty far back so it does not stand out to much though I expect something in the mail from HoA soon.

 

[jacqueg]

I never considered this.  Thanks and it gives me one more problem.  I am beginning to think i should just get an RV and pull it.  I do not like RV parks but If it is the only thing that really works I may just decide to go with that.  It does have its upside as I can pull it with an off road vehicle and I can explore more.  Vans seem like a novel concept but it may not be the best suited to my needs.

I will begin looking into RV parks and maybe my dislike is unjustified and I am overthinking how expensive they are.

Most casinos just LOVE RVers, and many offer free or cheap RV parking. Most casino-oriented cities - like LV - usually have plenty of RV campgrounds in the vicinity.

From what you've said about how you intend to use it, I think a small travel trailer would do you nicely. Presumably, you will be spending plenty of time in air-conditioned spaces with inexpensive restaurants. So you won't need a really large rig. If I were looking to buy a travel trailer, my first choice would be a fiberglass model - Scamp, Casita, etc.

 

[DannyB1954]

I run a 5,000 btu window AC on a Ryobi 900 watt propane generator. The generator really only produces 700 watts of continuous power, ( the 900 is peak for about two seconds). Ryobi states it will run 3 hours on a one pound canister. If hooked up to a 20 pound tank, that should give you about 60 hours of operation, (optimistically). I can't witness this as I usually run off of solar during the day, and have not used AC at night.

There are basically two types of generators. The older and the inverter. The older ran at a constant speed so did not save a lot of fuel when the load dropped. The newer inverter style uses an inverter so when loads are less the engine can slow down and the inverter keeps things at 120 volts 60 cycles. If your living space is well insulated, the AC compressor may only come on half the time. so the inverter type would save you a lot of fuel.

If your only load is the AC, don't get a generator larger than necessary. If you need more temporary power for other things, have the generator run a battery charger and run your loads from a larger inverter connected to the batteries being charged. Like I said my generator is a 700 Watt continuous, but I can power a 30 amp charger and then run anything I want off of a 3,000 watt inverter, (at least for a short time).

 

[michaelf2780]

The 3/4 gallons an hour was probably the old type and maybe the information itself was from a long time ago.  I wish most sites had a date at the top of their information.

The only things I was going to run was the AC, a small TV, a laptop, and a heater when needed.  LED lighting once in awhile.  Even though I will be living in the Van (for at least a year) I do not need Fridge.  I live in a house now and a rarely use one as I do not mind room temp drinks and since I do not cook most of the things I eat are outside the home or do not need refrigerated.

My Van is going into the shop tonight and hopefully tomorrow I will know what type of condition it is in.  Slow2Day gave me advice in another thread and going to start on that.  Compression test, oil pressure test and a overall inspection will be done tomorrow and depending on what is found I will go from there.

I will have all the major things that is hard for a non mechanic to fix but I will be getting my hands dirty on what I can learn to fix myself.

I am not going to install AC in the Van though.  I have reconsider VanDwelling and will be buying an actual RV Trailer (scamp or something similar) and just use shore power.  The Van will either be sold after I have fun fixing it up or it will be stored in a garage and I will use it after I stop RV living for weekend trips.  

So new plan for Van is:  

• 1-2 high wattage solar panel.
• Enough batteries to run a fridge, LED lightening, and other common items most Vandwellers require.
• Other components the solar setup needs like controller. 

I was overthinking everything and will switch focus.  An RV and shore power when AC is required (summer months) and either the RV and drycamping/boondocking when AC is not required or Vandwelling.  Storing something while I am not using shouldn't be an issue.


Unless something changes again.  

This site has been very helpful.