Hello, I'm new here - although I'm registered on many other forums and was on a Yahoo list for a while, so some of you may recognize my name [virtual waves at all <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"> ]<br><br>I'm just trying to get some feedback about this subject to help in my vehicle search. My budget is so low that I've been looking in the late 80s-early 90s model years and it's been an - uh, interesting - experience.<br><br>Of the last two vans I looked at - the first was an '89 with about 100k miles; the seller, who had owned the van for just a few months, was asking $2500 and the inspection found about $3000 worth of repairs/maintenance needed. The most recent one was a 1990 with about 130k but has been in the same family since purchase - father and now son (dad can't drive anymore) - so they know it well, and they've maintained it because they use it for long trips. It had new tires and shocks and everything worked in it except the fuel gauge. The seller was asking $2250 and with everything he knew about the van I thought it would be a better deal for me, so I had an inspection done. The results - just normal wear and tear. But then the mechanic started itemizing the costs to fix that "normal wear & tear" and by the time he was done it was at $2000 - at least.<br><br>I'm not mechanical at all so I feel like the only way to really know what's going on with a vehicle is to get a professional to check it out. But the costs of those inspections are eating into my budget and with this recent experience I started wondering if I'd be better off looking at newer model years. Of course the only newer ones I can afford have higher mileage - at least 150k. I've always tried to look for lower mileage, especially since I plan to do some traveling (I won't be stationary, at least not in the beginning). But now I'm not so sure that's a good way to go - especially considering my experience with this last van.<br><br>So that's my question. Is Indiana Jones (quoted in the subject; sorry, I couldn't resist <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"> ) right? What are your thoughts on the "age vs. mileage" issue?<br><br>Meg<br><br>
"It's not the years, it's the mileage" - or is it?
- Thread starter MargaretA
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Yes, avoid carburation, especially if you tend towards colder climates.<div><br></div><div>The thing about most of those big mechanic chains is that no matter what you bring them they'll tell you it needs a bunch of repairs. I'm sure if I were to bring my van to a shop right now they would tell me it needed new idler arms, wheel bearings, brake work, and maybe shocks. And all of that was true a couple years ago too, but none of it is necessary and probably won't be for another couple years.</div><div><br></div><div>I'd go back to the second, well maintained van. What did the shop say it needed? Did you notice any issues when driving it?</div>
The two vans I mentioned were both high-top conversion vans. While a Class B would be nice, there's no way I can afford one of those, and at least with an empty space I can set it up the way I want instead of being stuck with things where they were put by the manufacturer. I've stayed away from cargo vans not just because they'd need more work to make them livable but also because I've heard the ride isn't as smooth. I have a bad back and can't handle anything that is too stiff or rattly. I would consider a regular passenger van but I haven't found any that had decent mileage; they tend to be used as shuttles, I think, so by the time they get down to my price range they have more than 200k miles on them (I actually saw an ad for one with 475k). Conversion vans seemed a good compromise because they're more insulated and comfortable to ride long distances in, and some come with high tops - although I've had mixed feelings about those because none of them were high enough for me to stand straight up in. I've talked to a couple of conversion places about putting a "real" high top on but it's not an option - the cost to do something like that is at least $4000.<br><br>I have been trying to stay away from carbureted vehicles because of personal experience - they're a pain to start in cold weather. I did pick up some information last year about when FI started, which seems to be about '87 for Ford and Chevy and '88 for Dodge. That really helped me do some elimination; I haven't looked for anything older than that, and actually with the conversions I've added a year or two because sometimes the base is a year older than the conversion.<br><br>About these professional inspections - I *am* beginning to wonder if they're more scary than helpful. I've had 3 done now - one last year on a Class B (back when I had more money) and these other two - and they all showed lots of things wrong. But with older vehicles I think there's always going to be something. The trouble is, I'm in new territory here - I'm looking for something to drive long distances in instead of just 5000 miles a year in city driving, I've never bought anything this old before, and I've never bought or driven anything this big before. Plus, the last two cars I've owned - since about 1990 - had manual transmissions. So I'm no good at test drives - these vans all have way more power than I'm used to and because of the automatic transmission I have no idea whether the shifting is okay or not. Unless there was something really obvious - like turning the steering wheel to the right and having the thing go the other way - I wouldn't notice anything wrong. That's why I've been paying for these inspections - for peace of mind. But they're not giving me any! I have budgeted a bit more than the purchase price to cover needed repairs/maintenance, but so far the estimates that came with the inspections have been a lot higher than that.<br><br>I hope that answers your questions. I really would like get something to drive; I haven't had a car since January and it's a real pain running errands on the bus. But after this last experience I'm beginning to wonder if I can really do this. I'm just not much of DIYer.<br><br>Meg<br>
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<P>ANY empty van is going to ride rough. They need to be loaded to ride nice, which you will be doing...lol </P>
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<P>Sorry for all the posts, you wrote alot..lol <BR><BR>I sold my 94 hi-top conversion van because it scared the crap out of me". On windy highways I was puckering something fierce with a death-grip on the steering wheel. It swayed terribly due to its high center of gravity. <BR><BR>It had new tires, alignment, RS900 shocks, new brakes, etc... It was gorgeous inside, but the sway and unreliable engine combination was a no-keep for me. <BR><BR>My 4x4 van's weight is all in its drivetrain, and rock solid on the road. Something to ponder about high-tops. Drive it on the highway first. </P>The inspections are a reality of what the vans are put through. Ive replaced almost everything on my ford, but I love it, and I know it's done right, so it's a no-brainer. <br><br>Message me privately if you want my help in finding one online for you, in your area. I dont know what area you live. <br><br>Attachec is/was my 94 G20. Sold it for 8k <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"><br><BR> <br>
4x4, I'm sorry but I didn't understand a lot of what you said. Did you mean that mileage/age aren't as important as what kind of engine the vehicle has - like who made it or what size it is or - something else? I've learned a lot in the past year (since I decided to try this) but my knowledge of engines is limited mostly to size and the # of cylinders - and I don't really know what that means except that it seems that bigger engines and more cylinders means more power.<br><br>I think I understand what you meant about the high-top conversion van swaying; I think that's probably true of anything high (I've heard it can be really bad with the Sprinters). I didn't notice any swaying with this last van and we spent a lot of time on the highway. But in all these vans I've looked at the height has been kind of intimidating; these things are a pain in the neck (or the head, actually, since I keep bumping it on something) to get in and out of and I feel like I'm sitting way up above everyone else. But I've always figured that was just a relative thing since I'm so used to subcompacts; my last car was a '93 Escort. I haven't tried driving a cargo van.<br><br>I'm sorry but I didn't see any Craigslist links in any of your posts here. There was just that link to the timesert.com page, but it comes up mostly blank for me.<br><br>ddwinters, all I was able to write down for that last van was brake & power steering fluid replacement and leaks, ball joints, bushings, rear main seal, and transmission fluid seal. The mechanic was talking really fast and once he got to the estimates, and I wrote a few of those down, I realized this was adding up so I just said "So this is about $2000 in work it needs?" and he said "Yes." He said more than once that this was "usual stuff" for an old vehicle. (which is why I decided to rethink buying an "old vehicle" - even though 20 years doesn't sound all that old to me)<br><br>The mechanic sounded really busy so I let it go at that. I gave it some thought, wondering if I could just get some of the work done, but I would have had to call him back and I wasn't sure he'd have time to give me any more explanations. And besides, he'd already said that if I was going to do any long-distance driving in it I should get this stuff fixed. So I finally decided to just move on. I sent an email to the seller telling him I was going to pass on the van.<br><br>Just one other thing - I don't have any knowledgeable friends, I have to rely on professional mechanics. Not having to do much with my last car, and not having a car for the last few months, I'd forgotten how expensive that can get. That's why I'm beginning to wonder if this is such a good idea. It seems like the people who do this either do a lot of the work themselves or know someone who can do it for them - or they have enough money to pay a shop to do it. None of those situations applies to me.<br><br>I hope that answers your questions. I'll check back here tomorrow in case anyone needs to know anything else.<br><br>Me<br>
That's a pretty generic list of things it needs. Of course it's good to change the fluids, but that's usually not critical and can be done cheap. I bet the ball joints and bushings are fine if you didn't notice anything while driving, but they will probably need to be replaced someday. The rear main seal is probably a 1-2k job itself and EVERY old vehicle is a little leaky at the rear main. Mine leaks like crazy in the winter, and just a little bit in the summer. Not a big deal, though if it was losing quarts of oil that would be a problem. Transmission seal is the same, I wouldn't worry about it, just make sure it doesn't run low.<div><br></div><div>This is kind of like how some people think your jeans need replaced when they get scuffed around the bottom seam, and other people will patch up holes and wear them forever. Your rear main seal is probably just slightly scuffed and most people wouldn't worry about it, unless they were trying to sell you a new one.</div>
<br><br>I'm staying out of this one - especially since Taj's occupants have been so very kind and helpful to me. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"><br><br>I'd be curious to know why you think a 3/4 ton is better than a 1/2 ton. I'm really not too familiar with the differences between them, or with the full ton.<br><br>Meg<br>VanTramp said:
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Mopar people are so sensitive... My first car was a 72 Plymouth Duster with a 340 engine, posi, 4 spd and 3 carbs. <br><br>Margaret, <br><br>Its basically about axle strength. The larger the bearings, the stronger the axle. I made sure mine had a <U>full floating axle.</U> Google it. <br><br>1500 axles are kind of weak (all the weight is on the axle. If the axle breaks, the wheel comes off). if the axle breaks on a full floater, the wheel stays on, due to the wheel riding on its own bearing). As Layman as I can get it. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"> <br><br>A dana 60 is a good, typical 3/4 axle, and should be your goal. They come in full floaters and non full floaters, but even the regular is stronger than any 1500/half ton series axle. A Dana 44 is ok, as long as u keep the fluid clean. <br><br>The way to test whether your axles are overloaded is to take a 20 minute drive on the highway, pull over, and <U>use your hand to feel the axle tubes, closest to the wheels</U>. Warm = good, HOT = bad. <br><br>Also, the use of E-rated tires will help with swaying and should handle the weight. I had D-rated tires on my 94 G20 and it swayed bad. Switch to E's before I sold it and it was a lot better. <br><br><br> <br>
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I'm no professional mechanic, but I have picked up some experience with cars through my family, and fixing the various problems with my own (I have owned 2 cars now, both 100k+ miles). My current vehicle is 20 years old with 130k miles, and my previous was 15 years old with 160k miles.<br><br>You can assume that the better maintained a vehicle is, the better condition it will be in overall when you purchase it. However, all cars break down with time, unless you're constantly replacing everything (good luck finding someone who does that). The question is as you have put it, "Is it the years, or the mileage?".<br><br>Cars are a lot like people. They get old, and things break on them. Age is like... age. An old car has the same problems as an old person: leaky pipes, rusty joints, etc. These are things that just happen with time, no matter how little you drive the car. If the car is old, expect rusty(weak) break lines, rust on the frame and bottom of the doors, and cracking tubes/corroding wires. Low miles may reduce some of these things, but they WILL happen. It's only a matter of time.<br><br>Miles are like work. The more a person works, the more things will wear out and break, same as with a vehicle. High mileage means your suspension will be worn and maybe bad, your pumps and motors may be shot, and things like cruise control or AC will be mysteriously malfunctioning. Also, more miles means higher likelihood that something with the engine or transmission has gone terribly wrong, like a blown head gasket. It may also have been pushed close to the breaking point in an area like this, waiting for you to buy it before it finally fails. Usually a person is kind enough to inform you of any major previous repairs (e.g. a blown head gasket), but always expect a seller to lie through their teeth for their money, and leave out anything that hurts their sale.<br><br>The last thing you should consider, which doesn't fit the analogy, is time it spends sitting. The human body constantly renews and maintains itself. Cars do not. When a car sits for years at a time, stuff starts to stick together. Don't expect the emergency break to work if a car has sat in the same spot for 4 years. The engine may even be seized up, or fluids my have leaked out. Hoses could be totally rotten, there is likely more rust than you can see on it, and it could very well break the second it's started up. Sitting still is no good for cars, be cautious if someone says "I haven't driven it in years". *This is not the case if it was kept in a temperate and controlled environment like a garage or show room, but that's not common.<br><br>If you're looking to save money on inspections, just google the basics about car systems. Learn what questions to ask and what answers to like. For example, the power train, electrical, brake, steering, suspension, and body are all subjects you should ask at least a couple questions about. There are more, so do some research. Ask if the brakes need to be replaced, if it makes any noise when it runs (have them run it to be sure), if anything in the suspension squeaks or rubs, or if the transmission ever sticks/slips. <br><br>For the best bet, test drive it. Google anything that you were suspicious about before you get back to the seller with an offer, down to the tiniest thing like flickering dash board lights. Always be critical. The radio not working may be a broken radio, or it could be failing circuitry which will lead to more problems. Some things like this are hard to figure out if you're not familiar with cars, but few things only happen once, and you may find some info about hidden problems online. Try googling the specific model, too; each model has its own set of common problems. Perhaps the car you are looking at has a history of the shock mounts rusting out. If it does, people will know and talk about it somewhere. Maybe it even has a history of bad electrical problems, which means that your seemingly trivial radio malfunction is an omen of bad things to come.<br><br>A car inspection isn't that hard unless you're looking to write an article on the thing. If something important is going bad, you'll likely sense it with a test drive. It only takes a few minutes to drive it around the block, and a couple hours to do your research at home, so tell the seller you'll be back tomorrow with an offer.<br>
<br><br>Well, I'm glad you like it, Cyndi, because most of it is going way over my head! <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"><br><br>I'm not going to ask any more specific questions because I doubt I'd understand the answers. But to get back to my original post - from what you've all said here it sounds like "older with lower mileage" and "newer with higher mileage" are really not that different. There are all kinds of potential problems with both. Am I on the right track with that?<br><br>Meg<br>cyndi said:
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Marge, <br><br>If you can, get a 3/4 ton for piece of mind, while riding in a loaded van. <br><br>That's ALL you need to know... <IMG src="https://vanlivingforum.com/images/boards/smilies/confused.gif" align=absMiddle border=0><br>
<br><br><font size="1"><b>yes! </b></font><br><font size="1"><b>whatever you buy used will either be good or bad and you will not know untill after you buy it!</b></font><br><font size="1"></font><br><br>[/quote]<br><br>Ah, so true. That's what happened with my last car - and it was only 3 years old....<br><br>All right then. I'll just look for something new - as new as I can afford - and hope for the best. Thank you all for your suggestions and info.<br><br>Meg<br>
Well, now I have to suggest something <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"> Don't focus too much on getting the "newest" or the lowest miles or anything specific like that. My standard MO is to find the best "deal". I know I have probably mentioned it too many times, and it may seem really obvious, but it is worth thinking about IMO. <div><br></div><div>The best deal is a balancing act of getting something new enough to have the best options (OBD2, MPFI), something that will do what you need and last (3/4ton minimum), something that has been treated well and is within your budget. When I say "treated well", obviously mechanical maintenance is at the top of the priority list, but watch for how well treated the inside as well. If you look around and see tons of stains and rips/scratches/burns, the previous owners have been pretty careless with it which probably means it has had a rough life. You can really get a good feel for a rig just by sitting in it quietly and just making a point to noticing all the small details. </div><div><br></div><div>Cast a wide net when searching, but carefully filter your choices before spending your money. You will find something that works well for you! Good luck <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"></div><div> </div>
OK, quick question (with hopefully a quick answer <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"> ): What is OBD2? I figure MPFI is "multiport fuel injection" but the other term doesn't look familiar to me.<br><br>Meg<br><br>
