Issues with HOWA

[DLTooley]

My brainstorm suggestion on another thread that HOWA consider becoming a membership organization has been portrayed by a few as some hidden agenda malicious thing. As such I’ll point out here the issues as I understand them generally, as well as my own specific concerns.

The most general of all is the nickname for HOWA, HOA on Wheels. As such go, that is accurate.

On that other thread several people mentioned the high administrative overhead at HOWA. As they do hire nomads that’s not necessarily bad, but all those sensitive details belong in another thread.

There are several one to one informal efforts that are probably more effective, if you are willing to get your hands dirty, literally and figuratively. If not, HOWA is currently the best donation option.

The biggest general issue was the conflict with the party folks starting 5-6 years ago at the original RTR location as that was getting huge. The BLM was putting pressure on Bob and HOWA and the current seminar location is the end result. This is another topic onto itself, and worthy of a chapter in a Nomad history book as well.

I volunteered for the first no camping RTR at the La Plaz fairgrounds. If I have a nomad skill if distinction it is finding good camps. I have many posted on freecampsites.org in SW Colorado and SE Utah, fair chance you’ve slept in at least one of them.

There is a legal spot, with a State Land Trust permit. I promoted this and was shut down hard successfully, as was inappropriately and unsuccessfully tried with the PaRTR folks at Scaddan.

La Paz County Fairgrounds Camp


I did end up promoting the small camp at Fire Pit road about a mile away cross country. That has both BLM and Land Trust, so you could stay in the area for awhile. I’ve stayed there a few times. The only time I’ve ever chatted with a HOWA board member was at a campfire. That was positive, though we did not discuss these issues.

The other small personal issue was buying a Bob Wells recommended product. I watched this being filmed at the 2020 RTR volunteer camp, before I left. The Alpicool worked for about 11 months of total use over less than two years.

Judge for yourself the nature of the endorsement.



After I left the 2020 RTR I returned to Scaddan Wash for the end of that year’s PaRTR. There isn’t a single individual running the many HOWA alternatives, but the person who has done the most to make it work has been Tyll Hertsen’s, and his many volunteers including yours truly.

Here’s Tyll closing down the 2020 PaRTR, wearing my RTR volunteer shirt. This is my most popular Nomad YouTube. Tyll’s most recent effort was inspiring Van Aid, now just starting at Plomosa Road for the second year.

Winding Down at the 2020 PaRTR


I may not make it as I have a broke down vehicle I’m just now dealing with, without charity. I have though had some awesome help with mutually beneficial gas money rides into town. If you aren’t mutual friends with them, you should be.

 

[bullfrog !]

Good luck with your vehicle, hope all goes well!

 

[maki2]

Not sure what your actual agenda is with this and the other posting.

I am sorry you are disappointed and that your expectations were not met. But expectations are not always the same as what is realistic.

New to the market products always get a ton of good reviews because those companies that are marketing often pester people for reviews immediately after the product is shipped. I never trust such reviews from someone who has not done anything more than open a box and plugged in the appliance for a day or two. That is not a proper testing of longevity.

Tyll is no longer a nomad, he is living in sticks bricks with his family. He is not involved in the 2023 Van Aid gathering. Nomad Center Camp is not putting on the Van Aid Event either. Basically it is happening with very little coordination other than saying here is a place to show up there are flags and a table with sign up sheets so you can organize yourselves.

 

[Happy Camper]

The most general of all is the nickname for HOWA, HOA on Wheels. As such go, that is accurate.

Home On Wheels Alliance
Howa

There are no HOAs for nomads. In fact HOAs seem to be the reason some have left sticks and bricks.

They are trying to help those that live in vehicles. I'm sure you know that. But i felt the need to clarify.

There are several one to one informal efforts that are probably more effective, if you are willing to get your hands dirty, literally and figuratively. If not, HOWA is currently the best donation option.

The biggest general issue was the conflict with the party folks starting 5-6 years ago at the original RTR location as that was getting huge. The BLM was putting pressure on Bob and HOWA and the current seminar location is the end result. This is another topic onto itself, and worthy of a chapter in a Nomad history book as well.

I always wanted to hit up the RTR in the early days. But being a single dad didn't afford me the time to do so. I regret not having gone before it really exploded

.I volunteered for the first no camping RTR at the La Plaz fairgrounds. If I have a nomad skill if distinction it is finding good camps. I have many posted on freecampsites.org in SW Colorado and SE Utah, fair chance you’ve slept in at least one of them.

There is a legal spot, with a State Land Trust permit. I promoted this and was shut down hard successfully, as was inappropriately and unsuccessfully tried with the PaRTR folks at Scaddan.

La Paz County Fairgrounds Camp

That was a cool video. Simple, but it explained things well. I remember seeing that and thinking I wish I could go.

I did end up promoting the small camp at Fire Pit road about a mile away cross country. That has both BLM and Land Trust, so you could stay in the area for awhile. I’ve stayed there a few times. The only time I’ve ever chatted with a HOWA board member was at a campfire. That was positive, though we did not discuss these issues.

The other small personal issue was buying a Bob Wells recommended product. I watched this being filmed at the 2020 RTR volunteer camp, before I left. The Alpicool worked for about 11 months of total use over less than two years.

Judge for yourself the nature of the endorsement.

I have used three 12v fridges. One was a monster fridge freezer dual. Only one died on me, and that was after a few years of working it hard. Ended up that the power supply I used wasn't the best. That and it was a pallet return item that has obvious damage.

One thing I have noticed in the forum back in the day, and even more in video. Bob always seems extremely supportive and possibly a little too optimistic in his recommendations. But I think they was him just being more positive than myself lol. I think that's just Bob being Bob. He's encouraging and sees the positive. That's why this forum in it's original form drew so many people. They needed a bit of that.

As far as endorsements, I won't buy anything on just one person's recommendation, unless I know they are extremely well versed with that item or field. I'll always double check. Sometimes triple and more.

After I left the 2020 RTR I returned to Scaddan Wash for the end of that year’s PaRTR. There isn’t a single individual running the many HOWA alternatives, but the person who has done the most to make it work has been Tyll Hertsen’s, and his many volunteers including yours truly.

Here’s Tyll closing down the 2020 PaRTR, wearing my RTR volunteer shirt. This is my most popular Nomad YouTube. Tyll’s most recent effort was inspiring Van Aid, now just starting at Plomosa Road for the second year.

Winding Down at the 2020 PaRTR

I remember watching this video when you posted it. Looked like massive fun. When I saw it again the first thing I noticed is that the wood had all been paid for by donations. Thank God for early 2020 wood prices lol

I may not make it as I have a broke down vehicle I’m just now dealing with, without charity. I have though had some awesome help with mutually beneficial gas money rides into town. If you aren’t mutual friends with them, you should be.

There seem to be so many good people helping other good people. You're obviously one of them.

I get that sometimes things don't go how we'd hope or expect. But I do hope that you find your best way to do things in a way that works for you. Howa seems like they are doing good things. Just like Tyll did his things, as are many others. We all just help how we can, when we can, and who we can.

Play to your strengths. If we all do, we'll all be better for it.

 

[jacqueg]

My brainstorm suggestion on another thread that HOWA consider becoming a membership organization has been portrayed by a few as some hidden agenda malicious thing. As such I’ll point out here the issues as I understand them generally, as well as my own specific concerns.

The most general of all is the nickname for HOWA, HOA on Wheels. As such go, that is accurate.

On that other thread several people mentioned the high administrative overhead at HOWA. As they do hire nomads that’s not necessarily bad, but all those sensitive details belong in another thread.

There are several one to one informal efforts that are probably more effective, if you are willing to get your hands dirty, literally and figuratively. If not, HOWA is currently the best donation option.

The biggest general issue was the conflict with the party folks starting 5-6 years ago at the original RTR location as that was getting huge. The BLM was putting pressure on Bob and HOWA and the current seminar location is the end result. This is another topic onto itself, and worthy of a chapter in a Nomad history book as well.

I volunteered for the first no camping RTR at the La Plaz fairgrounds. If I have a nomad skill if distinction it is finding good camps. I have many posted on freecampsites.org in SW Colorado and SE Utah, fair chance you’ve slept in at least one of them.

There is a legal spot, with a State Land Trust permit. I promoted this and was shut down hard successfully, as was inappropriately and unsuccessfully tried with the PaRTR folks at Scaddan.

La Paz County Fairgrounds Camp

I did end up promoting the small camp at Fire Pit road about a mile away cross country. That has both BLM and Land Trust, so you could stay in the area for awhile. I’ve stayed there a few times. The only time I’ve ever chatted with a HOWA board member was at a campfire. That was positive, though we did not discuss these issues.

The other small personal issue was buying a Bob Wells recommended product. I watched this being filmed at the 2020 RTR volunteer camp, before I left. The Alpicool worked for about 11 months of total use over less than two years.

Judge for yourself the nature of the endorsement.

After I left the 2020 RTR I returned to Scaddan Wash for the end of that year’s PaRTR. There isn’t a single individual running the many HOWA alternatives, but the person who has done the most to make it work has been Tyll Hertsen’s, and his many volunteers including yours truly.

Here’s Tyll closing down the 2020 PaRTR, wearing my RTR volunteer shirt. This is my most popular Nomad YouTube. Tyll’s most recent effort was inspiring Van Aid, now just starting at Plomosa Road for the second year.

Winding Down at the 2020 PaRTR


I may not make it as I have a broke down vehicle I’m just now dealing with, without charity. I have though had some awesome help with mutually beneficial gas money rides into town. If you aren’t mutual friends with them, you should be.

I am not sure why a problem with the PaRTR or Bob Wells' recommendation of Alpicool translate into general issues with HOWA. But oh well, that's just me.

I will say that your posts on HOWA have motivated me to review my monthly donations and increase what goes to HOWA.

 

[user 22017]

Btw, two campers I follow on youtube have been using Alpicool frig/freezers for years. One is on his fourth year with his (see SUV Rving).

Alpicool's were discussed (in a positive light) in a thread here, as well. I decided to get an Alpicool (when my ship comes in

 

[PattySprinter]

Awww I heard that Doug in the video with Bob has passed on - he seemed to be a very kind person.
the dice game Tyll played - learned it when I was a child - we always called it ‘Zilch’ - what did Tyll call it again?

 

[abnorm]

FARKLE...................

 

[Happy Camper]

Regarding Alpicool. I have one in my apartment that's used as a freezer. 45 qt. It's been running non-stop for around 4 or 5 years. During that time my apartment cooling went out and it was in 90+ degree heat for a summer without issue. Thank God, because it kept the ice cream frozen lol.

Always remember that most of the 12v fridge/freezers are generic and labeled to a brand. It doesn't cost much extra for it to say Alpicool or Happy Camper when bought in bulk to resell.

Some companies test better or have higher standards so they pick the better or best models. Some have excellent service and some don't invest in it at all.

By most accounts Alpicool tends to see with better quality models and has decent CS. I would recommend based on my personal experience.

 

[Happy Camper]

I would apologize for saying "you seem angry", but I won't. My last two posts here were deleted for "arguing and name calling".

I'm pretty sure I said constructive things in those posts. I get that this is the "no one can be offended" forum these days, but I can't recall saying anything offensive in those posts.

Now if it's just eliminating a portion of the entire conversation then I can see that. But if so, make sure you let me know that's the case. Because at the moment all I have is this:


And to my recollection, this was unwarranted. Your forum, your rules. I get it. I rarely get frustrated, but this frustrated me.

 

[Morgana]

Yeah but that happens a lot, that if the thread goes sour then all the related posts get deleted.
One of mine got deleted too and I wasn't surprised.
I sometimes find the phrasing of the notice a little disconcerting, but I don't think it's meant to imply that everyone whose post got deleted was out of line, or equally so. (And even if it was, sure I wish the mods would agree with me all the time, but then there's the oppo-Morgana in the other corner wishing the same thing.)
Maybe if we tripled the mods' salary they would have time to write like a diplomat and distribute perfect fairness like a judge. Oh wait no if we tripled it it would still be 0.
Besides, if you or I did think it was fair, someone else would not and would complain for a different reason.

Just think of it as the price of having somewhere we can go that isn't engulfed in knock-down-drag-out conflict. I sure don't want the job and I'm glad somebody is willing to do it.

 

[WanderingRose]

And some forums don’t allow criticizing of moderators/their actions.

 

[Morgana]

Oh, yeah! been there!

 

[rvwandering]

Sorry about not being clear. I will sometimes post an explanation in the thread and I should have this time. A total of 6 posts by three different people were deleted at the same time so everyone received the same message. After looking over the group of posts I see that one of them wasn't argumentative and didn't have quotes from the other posts so it can be put back up.

 

[RonDean]

I've had a few posts deleted too. I know it's probably hard to believe that someone as agreeable as I could get deleted! But, I decided not to take it personally and put it down to an overworked and underpaid moderator not really having the time for a more detailed explanation.

 

[maki2]

Overall the moderators do a very good job. Especially at keeping the Spam out!

 

[Happy Camper]

Overall the moderators do a very good job. Especially at keeping the Spam out!

Did somebody say spam?!

 

[tx2sturgis]

Overall the moderators do a very good job. Especially at keeping the Spam out!

We do try....but we certainly aint perfect!

Every day as we log in, there are usually several suspected 'spams' that are sitting in the 'approval queue' along with various posts from brand new members (real people!), and we have to go thru each of them and either toss them or approve them.

I can remember not so long ago when this forum (like many others) would get hammered with spam posts, visible to everyone, almost every day....glad those days are over!

Most of the time now, the filters catch those items and they sit there until we delete them, along with the fake account holders (bots?) who post them.

I'm not sure why these people (mostly from other countries) spend so much time setting up fake accounts on USA based forums, and then attempt to flood these forums with k-e-t-o and g-u-m-m-y ads (and other stuff) that will always trigger the filters.

I assume they have success on other websites so they just keep doing it.

 

[WanderingRose]

I remember when the spam count was very high, too, and appreciate the efforts made to rid this forum of it.

 

[wanderlust]

and then attempt to flood these forums with k-e-t-o and g-u-m-m-y ads (and other stuff) that will always trigger the filters.

Yeah, I found some my old post where we were arguing about heathy diet and my mentions of k-e-t-o were bleeped out. Took me a while to remember what I was talking about. Oh well. You are doing great job