Is purchasing a newer van a good investment?

[Lostinspace]

Always, <span style="font-size: large;"><strong>Always, </strong><span style="font-size: small;">never go into debt.&nbsp; I'm out of debt and have been for several years now.&nbsp; And I will never go into debt again for any reason.&nbsp; If I can't save and then buy whatever it is I want I wait until I've saved enough to buy.&nbsp; You say you have $2000 to put down, take a $1000 and get a junker to drive till you have saved enough to get what you really want.&nbsp; And buy it from an individual if possible. That way you won't pay a dealer premium.&nbsp; Nor will you pay the debtor's tax, interest.<br><br>Believe me you will be much happier.&nbsp; Tune in to Dave Ramsey's radio show for a night or two.&nbsp; He will step you through why it's really the only way to go.<br><br>It's possible to be debt free you just have to delay gratification.&nbsp; Make up your mind and do it.<br><br>Off my soapbox now. <img class="emoticon bbc_img" src="/images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif">&nbsp; Good luck.</span></span>

 

[mockturtle]

A vehicle is never a good 'investment'.&nbsp; An investment implies that it will pay off in some way.&nbsp; But, of course, we do buy vehicles and RVs for dwelling and for pleasure.&nbsp; The trick is not to go into debt because the steep depreciation will overtake the value almost every time.&nbsp; With a good used RV [five years old or so] the depreciation curve has started to level out.&nbsp; Yes, you will have to pour $$ into it to keep it well maintained but not likely to be anywhere near the money you spend on new, especially with interest.&nbsp;

 

[James AKA Lynx]

What is new and what is old is a gray area. Also what you can fix and FIND what needs to be fixed. AND When you fix what needs to be BEFORE anything major happens. <br><br>That is your call. To me, new commercial van is less than 40,000 miles. Old is over 175000. Also depends on usage and state of repair.<br><br>James AKA Lynx

 

[Willy]

&nbsp;I had a '56 step van (which I REALLY regret selling) that ran as well as anything new does.. and FAR cheaper and simpler to fix. 'Course, I do my own repairs, but any competent backyard mechanic could be paid to do so instead.. vs. the new stuff with sooooo much more stuff which complicates a repair (more $$$'s). Even my '92 F250 has a veritable rat's nest of hoses 'n wires covering the engine and I can't even do something as simple as replacing a valve cover gasket without tearing off the whole FI/pollution control assembly. Even under warranty, judging by my buddy's new(er) truck, there are still expenses associated with the regular (mandatory) maintenance required to keep the warranty valid.. and when the warranty expires, get ready to pay the big bux. <br>&nbsp;Another thing to consider is that, beyond a certain age, depreciation can be effectively nil, and I've actually made a profit on some of the old rigs I've had. ..Willy.

 

[creationode]

I would buy a cheaper van, and be happy to spend something like an extra $500 for a SUPER DUPER ULTRA IN DEPTH inspection by a really dedicated van mechanic.<br><br>They could tell you every single part that needs to be replaced.<br><br>You would not even spend close to $18,000 for the parts and labor.<br><br>The depretiation factor of a newer car is enough to make me never, ever, buy a new car.<br><br>That, and the electronics.<br><br>I can visually find all of my sensors, and trace every single electrical cable by eyesight.<br><br>In a newer van, even the mechanic will charge more, just because everything is more compact and hidden around other trim pieces.<br><br>It pays, in spades, to learn basic mechanics.&nbsp; There are people to help, and forums, online services, and books and magazines can teach you all you need.<br><br>Something like $14,000 saved over a year, is an INCREDIBLE amount of money for what you can do with it.&nbsp; That could be...years of a storage unit, a very nice new trailer to store and tow, all new tires, a complete, redundant electrical and solar setup, all of the goodies you could EVER want in your van...<br><br>Oh, and it could be converted to 4x4.<br><br>Get the cheapest van you can get and have a super dedicated van expert check it out.<br><br>The repairs will not be more than $18,000.

 

[Staying Put]

When I look to get a van I will try to find one between new and "oh no, what's going to go wrong next".&nbsp; Like Dirty Harry said, "A man's got to know his limitations".&nbsp; I can't do my own vehicle repairs, that's a limitation for me so I can't get a van that's too old.&nbsp; Now if one could find a van that the previous owner has already fixed most of the things that go wrong the first time and is selling it because something is a final straw for him, then that could be a good deal.<br><br>Myself, I will likely look for a van that's 5-6 years old with under or near 100,000 miles.&nbsp; If it has good reviews, suits my needs, and I get it for a decent price I won't mind having to spend some money on repairs.&nbsp; I won't be fooled (hopefully) by what appears to be a diamond in the rough but is really just a pretty piece of coal that needs fixing and is a hole in the street where I would pour money.

 

[creationode]

If you are on the I-35 corridor, there are so many mechanics for you to choose from.&nbsp; All kinds of specialist vehicle mechanics.&nbsp; DFW is a great area for car maintenance.&nbsp; There are tons of fleet mechanic specialists that are dedicated to heavy duty vehicles (vans and&nbsp; work trucks).<br><br>I am surprised my van came with what it did, for only $1200!<br><br>As far as I can tell, they low balled it so much because it is 18 years old, has absolutely no trim in the cargo area, the seats are torn, and the external paint is somewhat spotty.<br><br>I have fixed most of that already except for some paint stuff.<br><br>The market for vans is fairly small, and the customers for most of them are taking business loans, or paying cash, for a business investment; a commercial van is just that.<br><br>VERY few people actually personally own commercial vans.&nbsp; They taket more coolant, oil, and ATF, and require shorter service intervals.&nbsp; But they are WAY easier to work on because of this!<br><br>They are designed to be easier to work on, because they have to get out and work more often.&nbsp; The newer ones, just require somebody with better tools and access to very nice electronic diagnostics, unless they actually know where all of the sensors and grounds are.&nbsp; Even then, a really good OBDII scan tool helps.&nbsp; A pre 1995 van will not have full OBDII wires.&nbsp; But they don't really need them.<br><br>You should replace every single sensor on an older *mystery* van anyways.&nbsp; It won't cost over $1000, and the parts will last for years.<br><br>I just cant emphasize the ease of the older vans enough.&nbsp; People pay for IMAGE and WARRANTY in their vehicles.&nbsp; NOT dependability...except maybe in diesels and hondas.&nbsp; I cannot even count how many ridiculous mustangs and chargers have popped up in the last three years.&nbsp; These people could buy an older Stang or Charger, and work on it, for cheaper than the new junk fake musclecars.

 

[Simran]

I'm in the camp with those that live with no debt. You sound like a solid individual; able to to put away some solid cash. Do it! Save the cash! In essence what you are doing when you borrow money it creating money that doesn't exist (interest). Interest is inflationary. Think about it. You are helping someone create money.The trouble is you are the one having to sweat so someone else can have money created with no effort by them.

I suggest you save enough money to buy a used van you are comfortable with. Save a little money; a cushion for repairs. Live with the new found freedom of being debt free. Work doesn't seem near as much like work if you know in your heart that you can pick up any time and just blue sky . . .just because you owe nothing to no one.

Driving an old van is, in itself, satisfying because you are beating the system in two ways. 1) you are living whenever & where ever and how you want. 2)you are driving a vehicle that corporate America has abandoned any claim to years ago. Sure they make a little off parts but not much. I know we cannot all feel comfortable doing this but for those of us that can it is very satisfying.

It's a freedom like no other,

Living large in my 1975 Chevy van

Gus

 

[Noah]

One more vote for an older van... It's well worth 10 grand or more for me to spend some time learning to work on my rig myself. It gives me peace of mind knowing I'm not as likely to be stranded and require a tow to the nearest mechanic I don't trust.&nbsp; I feel like it connects you with your vehicle as well.&nbsp; Call me a hippie but I respect my rig and listen to it's needs and we take care of each other. Plus I love to have a project to work on.<br><br>I speak from experience that debt is horrid even if you are making the money to pay it off on schedule. Life comes at you fast, even if you only plan to be in debt 7 months, you are STUCK in your current situation until it's done. Health, weather, family needs, the itch to get back on the road... It all needs to be put on hold unless you can line up another income.<br><br>Just my 2 cents.<br><br>-Noah

 

[OneManWolfpack]

I'm looking at older vans and looking for a good van mechanic to compare costs. I'm still leaning towards the newer van but am entertaining both areas. The newer van gets 26 mpg, from what I've seen all older vans get 10-15 mpg.<br><br>I can't save money, I need a vehicle now unless I plan on sleeping on a park bench. I have to get a loan. There is no way around getting in debt.<br><br>I also need something dependable. If I can't make it into work, then I could lose my full time job.

 

[Noah]

<P>I think you always have a choice about going into debt. As another mentioned, you could use your 2,000 for a junker now, save quickly, and sell it when you buy the newer one.<BR><BR>As far as losing your job for not getting there on time or missing a day, trust me... there are dozens of ways to lose a job, only some of them are in your control. I think we tend to have a false sense of security thinking that our jobs will be there as long as we want them if&nbsp;WE do what is expected.<BR><BR>That all being said; We are simply sharing our opinions because you asked.&nbsp; A lot of us would be more comfortable living out of a backpack for 7 months than taking out a 16k loan.&nbsp; The point to take from this thread, I think, is the options are nearly endless. You find a path that you are comfortable with, plan it out, and execute it properly. It will work out like clockwork because you believe it will and you are willing to put in the work.&nbsp; If you are skeptical about the plan in the first place, I think you'll run into more discouraging obstacles along the way.<BR><BR>Good luck, and with whatever you decide, know that we are pulling for ya!<BR><BR>-Noah</P>

 

[Van-Tramp]

There is no way a 2012 E250 van gets 26 MPG. You are being told wrong information there, possibly outright lied too.<br>See http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/31876.shtml and the van shows up as 12-16 mpg on regular gas (even worse with E85).<br><br>If you must take on the debt, I would seriously consider taking on the smallest debt possible. $12k (remember, there are taxes, extra warranty, and dealer fees too... plus the extra costs of full-coverage insurance) is a mighty monthly payment and it is not going to be any more reliable than a properly maintained, older, cheaper, van. Again, you can get a loan from your local credit union for a used car purchase without having to go through the dealerships and avoid a lot of the extra costs of a dealership.<br><br>A 2012 van will break down just as often as a 2002 van but costs twice as much to purchase and repair. There is always public transportation, or car rental if you are seriously in a bind to get to work. <br><br>If you let fear of a break down rule your life... living in a van is not for you.

 

[Willy]

&nbsp;An auto repair place in town here is charging $70 just to stick a code reader on new(er) vehicles. ..Willy.

 

[ZOFCHAK]

<br>&nbsp;Everyone seems to be pointing out the disadvantages of buying a new (Or like new) van, so I'll mention some of the advantages.<br>&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;1. Warranty.&nbsp; <br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp; The Ford van is probably going to come with the remainder of the 36k miles bumper to bumper warranty along with the remainder of the 5 year 60K powertrain warranty. This means for the next 2 years you will have only to put gas in it and pay regular maintenance fees (Oil changes, etc). Read the recent post in the RV section titled "RV Failure" and you can see what can happen with a used vehicle. True a nearly new van may also have a catastrophic failure, but it's less likely and it'll be covered under warranty.&nbsp; <br>&nbsp;<br><br>&nbsp;2. Peace of mind and dependability.&nbsp; While it's true that even a new van may break down, it's far less likely that you will have mechanical issues.&nbsp; You'll probably never have the uneasy feeling that your van may not start, may break down a long ways from where you want to be or worry about not having a bed because your home is being repaired. <br><br><br>&nbsp;3. Safety and security.&nbsp;&nbsp; Driver and passenger side air bags, antilock brakes, traction control, improved seat belts and stronger frame.&nbsp; These are all advantages of a 2012 model over one that may be a decade or more older.&nbsp; If tragedy strikes you won't really care about the money you may have saved.&nbsp; Also newer vehicles are more difficult to steal and to break into.&nbsp; Ford has improved the doors over the years (No more just breaking some plastic and popping the rear door open). They have also added chips to the keys which make starting the vehicle without the key very difficult.<br><br><br>&nbsp;4. Appearances and stealth.&nbsp; While it may be unfair many people judge us based on our appearance.&nbsp; A brand new 2012 van is going to be an advantage when trying to stealth park.&nbsp; Neighbors and police may be suspicious of that older conversion van, but a new cargo van is more likely to be seen as a legit commercial vehicle than a vehicle that someone is living in.<br><br>&nbsp;5. Fuel Economy.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; While the E-250 has changed little over the past decade the fuel economy has been improved. A 2012 model with no wear will get a couple more miles per gallon that the same van did in 2002.&nbsp; With gas prices as high as they are it'll add up.<br><br>&nbsp;6. Handling and comfort.&nbsp;&nbsp; It's still a huge metal box on wheels, but as someone who has driven a 2004 and a 2012 E series van there's a huge difference.&nbsp; The newer models have better heating and cooling systems, they are quieter, they handle better and they accelerate and stop quicker.&nbsp; The 2012 4.6 has 30 more horsepower than the 2004.<br><br>&nbsp;7. Increased Payload and towing capacity.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The newer E series are made of stiffer steel and can haul more in the back along with having a higher towing rating. <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>

 

[OneManWolfpack]

<p>So pretty much black vans are a no go? I just found an insane good deal with a local dealership. 2008 econoline conversion van that's in extremely nice condition with 34k miles for $9,000. Test drove it and it drove like a boss.........but then remembered they absorb more heat :&lt;</p>

 

[rokguy]

<EM><STRONG><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">I personally would NOt get into debt for a any vehicle no matter what the deal. Something I learnt the hard way at an early age.</SPAN></STRONG></EM><BR><EM><STRONG><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">Who knows you might not like the vandwelling lifestyle, anyway it's a good learning experience working on an older van to start with.</SPAN></STRONG></EM>

 

[Van-Tramp]

It will keep warmer in the winter <img rel="lightbox" src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" class="bbc_img"><br><br>34k is nothing for a modern motor. I was just talking to a friend who has more than 400,000 miles on his 1980's Chevy truck and I doubt anyone would argue that the 80's were quality times for auto manufacturers. <br><br>Barring any other major issues, that sounds like a fair deal. No warranty I'd imagine, but just set money aside each month for the time you may need it. If you never need it, then you have a lump sum to purchase another van in 5 years when you need a replacement.

 

[stude53]

A great deal on a well cared for van should not stop you because of the color. To help dissipate or reflect heat from the sun can be accomplished by roughing up the surface of the roof and painting it white with elastomeric roof coating (brush or roller).<br><br>Bob

 

[OneManWolfpack]

This is true and winters coming up!<br><br>Yeah, I found out I'm getting more money than I had expected from my car so might be able to pay cash for this van. I'm still looking.

 

[Staying Put]

Hands down the major disadvantage of buying a newer or new van, and a deal-breaker for many of us, is its cost, $$$$$$$$, going into debt.&nbsp; There are those of us who have worked hard in what may be modest or even poor paying jobs to get out of debt.&nbsp; Why on earth would we want throw that away and go into debt again to purchase a vehicle???<img src="/images/boards/smilies/rolleyes.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">&nbsp; <br><br>If this is a difficult concept to comprehend maybe it is time to take out a loan and buy a reality check.&nbsp; Then again, maybe those who can so casually consider purchasing a new or newer van have enough in their wallets to buy a reality check.<img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">