Inverter Power Consumption

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RogerD

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I've been planning on buying an Aims Power 2000w inverter/charger $647

I just read an article that said it uses 5 amps just to be on.

So I assume that means if I was to run a device for 12 hours. It will use 60 (5x12) amps from the batteries (just to be on) plus whatever amps are needed to run the device.

If correct (which I'm assuming I am), then I'm no longer interested in it.

I was also looking at a Victron and it uses less than an amp to be on, but it's $1155.

I don't really want to spend that much if it could be avoided.

Can anyone recommend another option that is just as good for less money?
 
When I researched for a 2000 watt inverter, I opted for the Xantrex Prowatt SW2000 as it appeared to have a very low idle current draw.

I never really had to stretch it's legs anywhere near the 2000 watt level, but I know some have claimed it can not push that much out, though, I think it might be because people fail to realize just how heavy of wire is necessary to do so, nor how close to the battery it is or not makes a difference if you do not have heavy enough wire.

I bought mine for very near the $350 mark, and for that money, it was a great deal to me.

Here is someone who tested their idle current: https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/15209/xantrex-prowatt-sw2000-testing
 
You can do better. I have 2 that use almost nothing at idle & came with a remote to turn them off or on. These are older 2000w ones I used in cabin builds. I can do some researh for you but I'm finally getting to shoot this afternoon as it's over 30 degrees.
 
Just to be clear. I'm looking for a 2000 watt inverter / charger. Not just an inverter.
 
RogerD said:
Just to be clear. I'm looking for a 2000 watt inverter / charger. Not just an inverter.

I'm sorry... I forgot to explain that my research on that specific detail of consumption is what led me down the path of not using a combination unit, well, along with the initial cost. With "separates", I was able to afford one piece at a time, and in the order of importance to me. Just took a little forethought.

The most important thing to me was NOT having any additional wasted draw on batteries than necessary simply because the when your not plugged in to a shore source, batteries are all you got, and turning on and off the inverter each and every time I needed it would just be annoying, yet something I would have always been doing if the inverter drew a substantial amount of current just sitting there.

Clearly though, a lot of it really depends on your amp/hr capacities and exact solar capabilities (of which I was somewhat limited).


Charging can be done by any modern smart charger, allowing those connections to very simply be continuously connected anyhow, only activating when and if required right along side a solar controller. They surprisingly play very well along side each other. Same could be said of a stand alone automatic power switch, where there, I just chose a manual option anyhow. I didn't need to have that switch automatically.
 
I had a list of inverters thar aren't chargers also. I do mine with a 1000 watt pure sine wave I paid $120 for & a 2000 watt Modified sine wave for non electronics & only turn on when needed for power tools, etc.
 
grummy said:
When I researched for a 2000 watt inverter, I opted for the Xantrex Prowatt SW2000 as it appeared to have a very low idle current draw.

I never really had to stretch it's legs anywhere near the 2000 watt level, but I know some have claimed it can not push that much out, though, I think it might be because people fail to realize just how heavy of wire is necessary to do so, nor how close to the battery it is or not makes a difference if you do not have heavy enough wire.

I bought mine for very near the $350 mark, and for that money, it was a great deal to me.

Here is someone who tested their idle current: https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/15209/xantrex-prowatt-sw2000-testing

I went and looked at the data sheet on the Xantrex site for the Prowatt SW2000 and it states that the no-load draw is less than 0.8 amps.

It's $368 on Amazon and saw there is a Prowatt automatic transfer switch that goes with it for $59.

That's not bad.

So if the charger isn't built in. Is there a specific battery charger that you should use to charge your batteries? Do you just hook it up to the batteries like you would with any battery charger?
 
I have a Progressive Dynamics converter/charger for when on shore power or running the genny. It has filtered DC output so any radio or amplifier doesn't have any induced noise while charging. I like to keep electronic things to single use so that if one goes out or needs upgrading to a larger unit, I don't throw out the baby with the bath water. I have two MSW inverters. One is 350 watt for small stuff and a 750 watt one to run my coffee pot if I can't run the genny and no shore power.

Edit to add: I hardly ever use either one. Almost everything I have runs off of 12V. I bought a 12V laptop charger and my phone charge off USB which I have installed in several handy places.
 
[quote pid='438585' dateline='1551684070']


So if the charger isn't built in. Is there a specific battery charger that you should use to charge your batteries? Do you just hook it up to the batteries like you would with any battery charger?
[/quote]

Some years back, I read enough information about "proper" battery charging to make my head spin. It truly is a complicated operation if one wants the longest battery life possible. But I've also noticed that even if one has a perfect charging environment, you STILL have batteries fail earlier than perhaps they should just because the quality of things these days are not what they once were (or I can't afford the high quality stuff). So, I concluded that if I can get 4-5 years out of a battery bank, wonderful.

Some "experts" tell you that you really do need a very high amperage for recharge initially to recharge correctly. But very, very few people using solar panels actually have the ability for such high recharge amperage and yet they still get a decent life out of their batteries. I think this is because the most important thing for long life is to NOT run batteries down below 50% (12.06v).

The charging aspect is the most complicated of the three items being discussed. The unit you initially discussed indicated a 70 amp charge capability. You will have to take some time to consider HOW you will actually use your battery power and then how your applied charging methods are going to best serve to re-charge. Do you intend to draw your batteries down in a short period of time and then also have a short period of time before the next cycle ? If so, then you do need to consider a high amperage recharge environment.

If you intend to begin using power wisely (because you realize that power you have to make does not come easy, nor plentiful), then you can get by with what most are getting by with in smaller solar arrays and smaller shore chargers in parallel.  You did not mention if you are including a solar option or not, but I almost think it is a must these days in order to keep things balanced, always getting something to compensate for any draw.

Yes, any charger simply connects in parallel with any other charge source with a few caveats. If a shore charger is plugged into the same circuitry as your battery powered inverted AC, then the charger turns on when your running without shore power. This just wastes power as the charger draws more than what it will put out (there is no perpetual motion). So you must find a way to power a charger only when on a true shore source.

Another issue is if you use any "coupling" methods from an alternator (like if this is for a vehicle). I always install a simple large solenoid that can couple my starting battery with my house battery bank. For one, it can help me start the truck if I got a dead battery, but also, if for some reason I had trouble charging the house batteries, I can charge via alternator.

BUT NOTE that solar people usually charge much higher than the 13-14.1 volts alternators generally provide, so you never want to join the two systems if the house is near the 15 volt mark for risk of over voltage to sensitive 12v gear turned on in the vehicle (backup cameras, stereos, etc). For me it is an emergency backup option.


When it comes to charger brands, it could be that NOCO is one you should research. It's what I have been using and I believe it does exactly what it should be doing. Because I have solar, I only need a charger when I am plugged in somewhere and have had a few days of no sun. In such case, I get by with a little 3.5a NOCO, and just watch that I do not take my batteries lower than I care to.

If you take on the task of reading about battery charging to perfection, I wish you well. Again, COMPLICATED ! But worth the understanding before you decide exactly what you should buy for your particular needs. Note that many of the old camper charger/power supplies never used any of these complicated methods... I guess people just replaced batteries more often.

Good Luck !
 
B and C said:
I have a Progressive Dynamics converter/charger for when on shore power or running the genny.  It has filtered DC output so any radio or amplifier doesn't have any induced noise while charging.  I like to keep electronic things to single use so that if one goes out or needs upgrading to a larger unit, I don't throw out the baby with the bath water.  I have two MSW inverters.  One is 350 watt for small stuff and a 750 watt one to run my coffee pot if I can't run the genny and no shore power.

Edit to add:  I hardly ever use either one.  Almost everything I have runs off of 12V.  I bought a 12V laptop charger and my phone charge off USB which I have installed in several handy places.
OK, cool.

I checked out the Progressive Dynamics converter/charger. I assume I want to get the highest amp output one that I will be able to run? Which would be 70 amps, as it uses a 15 amp socket and the 80 amp requires a 20. Best price I found anywhere so far on the 70 is $220 shipped.
 
It all depends on if your batteries can accept the higher charge current and how low you plan on taking them. Since my Roadtrek is a RV, I got the 9235 which is a direct replacement for the cheap magnatec (kills batteries by overcharging) that it came with. The 9245 should be sufficient for all but a large bank.
 
My plan is to run at least  (8) 220 ah GC batteries.

I will also be running 1200 - 1600 watts of solar panels.

I want to be able to run an air conditioner.

Once Lithium batteries come down to like $500  per 100ah. I will switch and get like 10 of them.

For right now, I just want to keep my initial set up under $5K and keep the weight of the batteries under control.

8 GC batteries are still going to be like 500 lbs, which is stupid when compared to lithium. Plus you can pull lithium down 80% VS 50%. Just the price of lithium sucks at this time.

Anyway. from what I read, the Progressive Dynamics converter/charger has a built-in charge wizard that is supposed to know how much to charge the batteries so it doesn't damage them. So my thinking is to go with the most amps possible.
 
I only have 350 Ah of batteries and only draw them to about 80%. With that big a bank, that larger converter would work fine.
 

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