Interesting Articles Relating to EVs

[dhuff]

Since our own government shows greenhouse emissions percentages at 38% for transportation and 33% for electric power generation, it seems to me that if we were able to reduce one by increasing the other one, we have not really gotten ahead of the problem.

If we start putting more EVs on the road, they will be using mostly electric power that's created by burning of fossil fuels so it's hard to see any real benefit from an environmental point of view.

Or so it seems to me.

I think there are factors that would alleviate some of this:

• Centralized power plants are better suited to carbon-capture technologies since it can all happen at once, on-site.
• Natural gas lends itself to centralized power generation and is lower-carbon emitting than some other fuels. Also makes a good stop-gap for solar & wind power, since they can vary based upon weather conditions and such.
• We don't necessarily have to burn fossil fuels to generate electricity. e.g. solar farms and, as we have an abundance of in north & west Texas, wind generation. Driven west from Abilene or Wichita Falls in the last, few years ? Miles & miles of giant windmills. Hydro power also is a big factor in certain parts of the country.

 

[tx2sturgis]

• We don't necessarily have to burn fossil fuels to generate electricity. e.g. solar farms and, as we have an abundance of in north & west Texas, wind generation. Driven west from Abilene or Wichita Falls in the last, few years ? Miles & miles of giant windmills. Hydro power also is a big factor in certain parts of the country.

Absolutely. Texas is generating about 16% of it's total power with wind. I spent many miles of my career passing thru the Roscoe windfarm...which takes more than an hour at highway speeds. And most of other windfarms also. There is one visible at night from here. Blinking red lights on the horizon at night. I have flown my drone in, over, and around windfarms. Which is cool.

But I still remember the utter, absolute, fell on it's face, failure of the wind turbines when we needed them most: Winterpocalyse 2021. Turns out they work great when nobody needs them, and when we do need them the MOST (hot humid days with no wind, or extreme cold days with no wind) they go into hibernation. We had blackouts all over Texas' ERCOT grid, about 10 million people were without basic life necessities, like a warm house, safe water to drink, and cooked food. And that disaster spilled over into the other grid that I'm on, the Southwest Power Pool.

Natural gas power production went into failure mode also. So then all the major metroplexes were out of power, and dark and cold, you could not charge electric cars, either. So people who did put ALL their eggs in the wind turbine electricity basket learned a hard lesson.

When the world around me turns cold and icy, and nothing is moving, no lights are on, and no stores have any food or fresh drinking water, I want liquid fuel in my vehicle, so I can drive to the hospital, a warming center, the Red Cross Rescue vehicles, or maybe 100 miles to the next town where conditions might be better.

Maybe we dont have to burn fossil fuels when things are comfy, but we sure do when the poop hits the ventilator.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^if I remember correctly Texas government failed to insure grid connections to other states and over see power companies backup planning as the main problem. Remember you need power to pump and sell fuel in most situations. Some with private solar, battery banks and off grid setups did okay until they ran out of fuel for their generators, again if I remember correctly. I bet if everyone had a Prius with a full tank of fuel and an a 3,000 watt inverter it wouldn’t have been such a life threatening situation. Maybe that is what started people looking at EV’s like Ford Trucks with a 120 volt outlet.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Yep, a perfect storm (if I can use that expression) of failures:

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/news/great-texas-freeze-february-2021

And yeah, if the grid is down, gas pumps often don't work either..although some facilities have backup generators.

But ahead of the storm we can begin to prepare, and a full gas tank in a typical gasoline powered vehicle usually means you can travel between 300 to 600 miles, depending on the particular vehicle range when full. This is not reduced much just because the outdoor temps are below freezing. And, I could carry a few jerry cans full of gas and extend my range even further.

But most EVs range drops to about half when temps are below freezing.

Assuming an EV range is 250 miles, you might be reduced to less than 150 miles of range in sub-freezing weather. And that's assuming you started out with 100% charge.

This might be moot here because the people in charge have tried to improve the grid situation, but now we have the possibility of rolling blackouts when high winds are occurring, similar to the situation in California, due to the recent wildfires here in the Texas Panhandle.

Count me in the group who prefers a bit less dependence on the grid, rather than more dependence on the grid.

 

[bullfrog !]

Traveling without traffic signals and closed fuel stations and stores might make staying in place a better idea as long as you have supplies and can stay warm. Even though I have a trailer set up to boondock I still carry a dual fuel generator and a ceramic heater. Between the two large propane tanks and the 44 gallon fuel tank on my tow vehicle we have old be fine for a while without any public utilities. Ever since I saw people after the hurricanes on the east coast modifying their Prius to power their home I’ve been intrigued by the thought of having transportation, generator, battery storage and inverter all in one package. Maybe EVs will become part of the answer to solving temporary power outages. How neat would it be to be able to just keep them as an emergency source of electric power maybe if there are enough eventually use them collectively to power the grid in emergencies!

 

[LargeMarge]

... alleviate some of this:

• Centralized power...
• Natural gas...centralized... Miles & miles of giant windmills...

.
Centralized anything is a tempting target, a big target.
.
Centralized anything requires enormous distribution infrastructure.
In the example of 'giant windmills', those rely on centralized factories, trucking (relying on centralized fuel refineries, predictable routes, centralized maintenance buildings...), centralized decommission and burial.
Any disruption at any point crashes the whole shootin' match.
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As we learned during the 1940s wars, destruction of centralized factories crashes a culture.

As we learned decades ago prior to the Military/Industrial Complex invasion of Iraq, centralized water-treatment and electric-generating plants are priority targets to destabilize a culture.
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As we learned during the on-going Deepwater Horizon offshore drilling-platform fiascos...
As we learned from the on-going Exxon Valdez disasters...
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The evidence indicates centralized anything was better than nothing during the olden days of High Trust society.
Example:
Rural Electrification in Nebraska and Kansas was better than nothing, except for transferring the NIMBY impact onto farmers in Tennessee and the required dams and flooding of their homes and towns.
The destruction of a culture.
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I see zero benefits to centralized anything.
The evidence clearly shows centralized anything is suicidal.
Example:
2020-24, as the government agents leave their massive -- centralized -- office-buildings in downtown anyplace, cities return to their Stable State... abandoned haunts for feral foragers.
.
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This thread is an exercise in living in the past while expecting an identical future.
Normalcy Bias.
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Who in their right mind would trust the American University Complex to produce competent crews to maintain those far-off centralized anything?
The geezers capable of such are going extinct.
And more than simply leaving the work-force through attrition and dying, people like me are actively withdrawing our support for the Managers And Administrators of centralized anything.
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Centralized anything absorbs ever-decreasing resources.
Poo on that.
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[I am not targeting 'dhuff' for stating an opinion, I merely offer one alternative]

 

[tx2sturgis]

Traveling without traffic signals and closed fuel stations and stores might make staying in place a better idea as long as you have supplies and can stay warm.

Evacuations do happen. Sometimes you MUST leave. Hurricanes, flooding, earthquakes, wildfires, etc.

The recent wildfires 100 miles north of me forced the evacuation centers to evacuate!

Several friends of mine live in that area and lost everything. Some residents in the area left in their cars and drove 50-100 miles to stay with friends. Others had to get motel rooms or head for campgrounds that were already full. Still others were bused to nearby town's schools and churches, with literally a shirt and a pair of pants and nothing else.

Suppose you had waited a week surrounded by smoky skies, with no way to charge up that EV due to no power in the grid, because all the electricity had been shut off because the grid is what caused the fires, then suddenly you are commanded by law enforcement on loudspeakers to evacuate and your Nissan Leaf or e-Transit is showing 50% charge level, and your old Ford Ranger pickup is showing 1/2 full of gas...and your buddy down the street has 4 cans full of gasoline for his lawnmower that he will donate if you'll take him and wifey to the Red Cross shelter that's 90 miles away.

I know which one I'll choose. Hint: Not the EV.

I think an EV can be a nice addition to anyone's collection of vehicles, but having a backup that runs on old-school fuel is still a really good idea.

 

[wanderlust]

^^^if I remember correctly Texas government failed to insure grid connections ...

and IIRC these requirements was a result of a similar disaster a decade before. But such preparations increase price and looks like regulations, which is not popular in TX. Relying on federal help is apparently cheaper.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Yep. Our state capital in Austin is run by a bunch of shiseters, trogladites, neanderthals, ner-do-wells, doofuses, rip-off-artists, butt-kissers, mouth-breathers, barbarians, idiots and bureaucrats.

Apologies to the neanderthals.

And I better bow out now, I'm supposed to moderate, not instigate!

 

[dhuff]

<snip>

But I still remember the utter, absolute, fell on it's face, failure of the wind turbines when we needed them most: Winterpocalyse 2021. Turns out they work great when nobody needs them, and when we do need them the MOST (hot humid days with no wind, or extreme cold days with no wind) they go into hibernation. We had blackouts all over Texas' ERCOT grid, about 10 million people were without basic life necessities, like a warm house, safe water to drink, and cooked food. And that disaster spilled over into the other grid that I'm on, the Southwest Power Pool.

Here's a fact-check article from Reuters on the topic from back in 2021 (and yeah, I was here - power was off in my N. Texas suburb for almost 2 days and it got down to the low single-digits):

Fact check: The causes for Texas’ blackout go well beyond wind turbines

For me, the biggest things that stood out were:

• Most of the Texas grid, "operated by ERCOT, is not subject to federal oversight and is largely dependent on its own resources, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration."
• That grid is stand-alone, and "cannot connect to other grids, which are connected and draw from each other when needed." (I hear we're fixing this)
• "Natural gas wells and pipelines in Texas, the country’s biggest energy-producing state, do not undergo the winterization of those farther north - resulting in many being knocked offline by the prolonged freezing weather."

 

[Gr8ful]

A good complete comparison of EVs vs ICE. Ev's range & infrastructure are still not ready especially outside of cities so I think we're still 10+ years away. I don't agree with raising oil prices. Let EVs win on their merit.

 

[Gr8ful]

Xiamoi Introduces First EV Cheaper Than Tesla​

Provided By - Video Elephant on March 29, 2024
Xiaomi, a Chinese smartphone manufacturer, has entered the electric car market by launching its first electric vehicle. The car, named the SU7, boasts sporty styling inspired by Porsche and is priced competitively below Tesla's Model 3 in China. The SU7 garnered 50,000 orders within 30 minutes of its launch. Xiaomi's CEO highlighted the car's advanced features, including a longer range than Tesla's Model 3. The move signals increased competition in China's electric vehicle market, with Xiaomi aiming to challenge established players like Tesla. Xiaomi's success contrasts with Apple's recent decision to abandon its own EV project after encountering production challenges. Xiaomi's partnership with Beijing Automotive Group has facilitated its entry into EV manufacturing. This has allowed it to produce up to 200,000 EVs annually.

 

[BlueMarkOhio]

Xiamoi Introduces First EV Cheaper Than Tesla​

Provided By - Video Elephant on March 29, 2024
Xiaomi, a Chinese smartphone manufacturer, has entered the electric car market by launching its first electric vehicle. The car, named the SU7, boasts sporty styling inspired by Porsche and is priced competitively below Tesla's Model 3 in China. The SU7 garnered 50,000 orders within 30 minutes of its launch. Xiaomi's CEO highlighted the car's advanced features, including a longer range than Tesla's Model 3. The move signals increased competition in China's electric vehicle market, with Xiaomi aiming to challenge established players like Tesla. Xiaomi's success contrasts with Apple's recent decision to abandon its own EV project after encountering production challenges. Xiaomi's partnership with Beijing Automotive Group has facilitated its entry into EV manufacturing. This has allowed it to produce up to 200,000 EVs annually.

That's far from the first Chinese EV cheaper than a Tesla, there are loads of them. But you can't buy them here.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-22/why-can-t-americans-buy-cheap-chinese-evs

 

[Happy Camper]

Still can't wait for the next generation mini nuclear plants to start coming online. Clean, much safer than previous nuclear tech, and can run on much less nuclear fuel. Oh, and they don't rely on wind or sunlight. Or warehouses of batteries for nighttime energy storage.

In fact, they are winding up a previously closed nuclear plant soon. After they do appropriate safety checks and whatnot of course.

 

[Gr8ful]

Deal on an EV but they go OOB. https://slickdeals.net/f/17394567-f...e2f98fb0fe1010a5e500e3e8803437a54d1&plcmtid=0

 

[Gr8ful]

Henry Ford’s Secrets & at the end gets into EVs

 

[rruff]

Still can't wait for the next generation mini nuclear plants to start coming online.

Maybe starting in 2030, with a significant capacity by 2050. https://www.geekwire.com/2024/just-...eing-the-first-next-gen-nuclear-plant-in-u-s/

 

[Gr8ful]

4 years of registration on EVs in NJ?

 

[vanwinkle]

I5 Nor Cal, a couple of years ago I saw a Ford Transit Connect van just like mine pulled to a Tesla charging station. I asked, wow, did you convert? He said, no Tesla uses FTC for their EV charging stations maintenance fleet. LOL! True.

 

[Raven+Squid]

Hydrogen is hard to store (higly flamable gas). For small volume, you need high pressures. And because it's atoms are so small, they permeate metal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement making it brittle.

Much better is to invest in technologies which can produce fuels which is easier to store, like methanol. "The methanol synthesis reaction proceeds via the reverse water−gas shift reaction (RWGS, CO2 + H2 → CO + H2O), which is followed by CO hydrogenation to methanol via HCO (CO + 2H2 → CH3OH)"

Hydrogen as fuel looks like a dead end to me. I am all for lowering the carbon footprint of cars, but hydrogens does nor seems to be the solution.

Yep, storage is the issue.
The vast infrastructure of hydrogen fueling stations that would be needed is also a big issue.
Toyota has a new solid state battery tech that is close the production. It may be a game changer Except that we dont have adequate electrical production infrastructure to feed the transition.
Nuclear power(daisy-chained mini reactors) at this point is really the only feasible way to transition to carbon neutral until alternative energy sources can be built up.