Interesting Articles Relating to EVs

[RonDean]

And introduced some new pollutants. Eg. from extracting lithium

Most mining can be harmful in some way or other. That is not to say we shouldn't pay close attention and look for better ways to do things. We have "Blood Diamonds" and it is said that "gold mining is one of the most destructive industries in the world." Yet women everywhere still wear diamond rings.

In this case I found an interesting post from:

Richard Morris
Teaches a programming unit on a Degree Course at Cornwall College (2016–present).
There is a question of volume. I’ve got an electric van with 20kWh worth of battery. For the sake of argument, there might be 1kg of lithium maybe 1kg of cobalt. I’ve been driving it 4 years now and I’m still using the same 1kg of lithium that I did when I bought the van.

Now consider if I had been driving a ICE vehicle for this length of time. I average about 10,000 miles a year and my last car was doing 40 miles per gallon. I was using 250 gallons of oil per year, or 1,000 gallons over the 4 years I’ve owned the car. Something in the region of a tonne of oil every year.

I’m under no illusion about the problems of lithium and cobalt mining. The oil industry has its own very significant pollution problems.
---------------
As he points out, the lithium mining damage is a 1 time event, but the extraction of fossil fuel has its own issues and combustion release of carbon-dioxide and pollutants is ongoing. And in his example, he gets 40MPG!

 

[Gr8ful]

Pollution from recycling Lithium batteries.
What are the problems with recycling lithium batteries?

However, some valuable elements such as Li and Al remain in the slag, making it difficult to recover and reuse them. In addition, this recycling process is prone to generate large amount of harmful emissions (fluorine compounds, toxic organic compounds, and some greenhouse gasses).Sep 8, 2022

 

[user 22017]

Pollution from recycling Lithium batteries.
What are the problems with recycling lithium batteries?

However, some valuable elements such as Li and Al remain in the slag, making it difficult to recover and reuse them. In addition, this recycling process is prone to generate large amount of harmful emissions (fluorine compounds, toxic organic compounds, and some greenhouse gasses).Sep 8, 2022

I can't read your image. It is too small. No idea about recycling lithium batteries, but extraction causes significant pollution.

Not to mention wastes enormous amounts of water. Much like how streaming videos and bitcoin do.

 

[Gr8ful]

This was where it said click & tells the story, Thanks!

However, some valuable elements such as Li and Al remain in the slag, making it difficult to recover and reuse them. In addition, this recycling process is prone to generate large amount of harmful emissions (fluorine compounds, toxic organic compounds, and some greenhouse gasses).Sep 8, 2022

 

[RonDean]

I can't read your image. It is too small. No idea about recycling lithium batteries, but extraction causes significant pollution.

Not to mention wastes enormous amounts of water. Much like how streaming videos and bitcoin do.

And yet... no mention of the harm done by current alternative or "on balance" how does the lithium extraction compare to fossil fuel extraction, pipeline leaks, oil ships running aground, and so on or its long term use as Mr. Morris described? I am not surprised. We (on this forum) have our own priorities - mainly Van or RV living or camping. We can remain in denial all we want, but the rest of the world is moving on. And hopefully, I do so with them.

"Over 26 million electric cars were on the road in 2022, up 60% relative to 2021 and more than 5 times the stock in 2018. Increasing sales pushed the total number of electric cars on the world's roads to 26 million, up 60% relative to 2021, with BEVs accounting for over 70% of total annual growth, as in previous years." The trend is clear.

I would say that puts EVs a bit past the Wright Bros in development. And technology keeps getting better. That is why I have decided not to let myself seriously engage too much more on this subject. The only question I have is how soon will it happen and what will the cost be before I can get an eRV? We may all be dead first, but this change is "gonna happen."

 

[JT646]

And yet... no mention of the harm done by current alternative or "on balance" how does the lithium extraction compare to fossil fuel extraction, pipeline leaks, oil ships running aground, and so on or its long term use as Mr. Morris described? I am not surprised. We (on this forum) have our own priorities - mainly Van or RV living or camping. We can remain in denial all we want, but the rest of the world is moving on. And hopefully, I do so with them.

"Over 26 million electric cars were on the road in 2022, up 60% relative to 2021 and more than 5 times the stock in 2018. Increasing sales pushed the total number of electric cars on the world's roads to 26 million, up 60% relative to 2021, with BEVs accounting for over 70% of total annual growth, as in previous years." The trend is clear.

I would say that puts EVs a bit past the Wright Bros in development. And technology keeps getting better. That is why I have decided not to let myself seriously engage too much more on this subject. The only question I have is how soon will it happen and what will the cost be before I can get an eRV? We may all be dead first, but this change is "gonna happen."

Good points all around.
Strange how the drilling, spilling, fracking, pumping, transporting, burning, polluting and 'carbon dumping' of fossil fuels are mostly ignored by the anti-EV crowd. With the accelerating rate of technology & battery improvements (lithium sulfur, etc.)...EV's will only get better and lighter. Hopefully a decent eRV van--or even a hybrid version will be out soon. It's time to dump the conspiracy theories...and start trusting real science and real data.

 

[user 22017]

And yet... no mention of the harm done by current alternative or "on balance" how does the lithium extraction compare to fossil fuel extraction, pipeline leaks, oil ships running aground, and so on or its long term use as Mr. Morris described? I am not surprised. We (on this forum) have our own priorities - mainly Van or RV living or camping. We can remain in denial all we want, but the rest of the world is moving on. And hopefully, I do so with them.

"Over 26 million electric cars were on the road in 2022, up 60% relative to 2021 and more than 5 times the stock in 2018. Increasing sales pushed the total number of electric cars on the world's roads to 26 million, up 60% relative to 2021, with BEVs accounting for over 70% of total annual growth, as in previous years." The trend is clear.

I would say that puts EVs a bit past the Wright Bros in development. And technology keeps getting better. That is why I have decided not to let myself seriously engage too much more on this subject. The only question I have is how soon will it happen and what will the cost be before I can get an eRV? We may all be dead first, but this change is "gonna happen."

I don't mention it because in my mind, it is a given. We wouldn't even be discussing EV's if there wasn't a problem with ICE.

 

[RonDean]

I don't mention it because in my mind, it is a given. We wouldn't even be discussing EV's if there wasn't a problem with ICE.

Carla, Thanks for adding that. What might be a "given" for many of us might not be so for all of us.

 

[BlueMarkOhio]

Sodium mining is a lot less polluting than lithium mining. Sodium batteries are already appearing in cars even though they don't yet have the energy density of lithium batteries, but that will change.

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/22/the-sodium-ion-battery-is-coming-to-production-cars-this-year/

 

[Happy Camper]

As a follow-up to the above posts I made a new thread regarding Eco friendly items. This way we can have both discussions in their respective threads.

https://vanlivingforum.com/threads/eco-friendly-alternative-products-for-nomads.49756/

 

[tx2sturgis]

I have moved several 'thread detours' that were here, over into the thread that Happy Camper created, addressing eco-friendly products.

Please stay on topic about EVs in this thread.

Thanks.

 

[Happy Camper]

Two articles about the same thing. One is pro electric cars. The other would be pro hydrogen. I would imagine by the website name.

Mind you this is a test bed for seeing how hydrogen might work. It's not the end product. More like the beginning. There are a lot of articles on this exact subject. Feel free to look them up.

This site has no comments. But the article shows a lean towards optimism for hydrogen. And the program.
https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/tra...rted-by-26m-of-government-funding/2-1-1608732

This site has comments. I suggest you read the article and then the comments. They take a different approach to the same subject.

https://electrek.co/2024/03/13/what...-like-and-why-it-should-end-the-conversation/

 

[Happy Camper]

This isn't technically EV. But it's pretty cool.

https://www.popsci.com/technology/windwing-ship-sails/

 

[Happy Camper]

Dirt cheap batteries. Sorta...

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/dirt-fuel-power-cell-microbes-energy-battery/

 

[Gr8ful]

EV Bus Fires

 

[Happy Camper]

I think we've exhausted the EV fire threat topic. It's there. It's real. It's different than standard fires. Etc.

Other than a few extra things, there's not much else to say. Or see.

Not discounting the very real problem. I'm just stating the obvious to avoid another circular conversation about something that's been beaten, defended, then beaten to death again.

Stances were taken. And it's ok to agree to disagree.

 

[Gr8ful]

It's like small plane crashes. 1 or 2 people crash then they report it all over the country while hundreds die in car wrecks that don't even make the news.

 

[Gr8ful]

Interesting Vid Relating to EVs, please don't complain, or argue without watching the entire video as I don't want to argue​

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^In my opinion because people were encouraged to form bad transportation habits and continue to do so even after big oil companies realized they were destroying the environment they should be paying to correct the problem they helped cause. Changing to EVs should transition by using smaller hybrids, improving public transportation systems and creating services like rentals to allow the general public to adapt. Unfortunately it necessary to now to speed up the process which is and will be painful for most especially overloaded full time nomads when fuel prices are forced up to limit their use.

 

[Gr8ful]

BF, what bad habits did we the average people commit? In rural areas we have almost no public transportation, can't afford hybrids where you pay for for 2 drive trains & don't want nor can afford EVs & the insurance with all their problems they are very far from replacing fuel cars & trucks. Watch the you tube I posted please.