Insurance options for a no-build build van

[Ken in Anaheim]

I've used GEICO for yrs on all my vehicles. No problem getting my 2023 Ram Promaster cargo van insured. No questions asked. I did not build it out. Just have in my van what l need to live on BLM land at LTVA. Hope this helps.

I thought BLM required a holding tank at the LTVA's ?

 

[abnorm]

^ unless you camp within 500' of vault toilet at certain LTVA's including Quartzsite

 

[eDJ_]

My rigs have been "no-build's".

I'm in Ohio and the BMV (bureau of motor vehicles) spells it out nice and legal.

Section 4501.01 Motor Vehicle Definitions

In section "Q"-b:

(b) "Motor home" means a self-propelled recreational vehicle that has no fifth wheel and is constructed with permanently installed facilities for cold storage, cooking and consuming of food, and for sleeping.

They state that these facilities must be permanently installed. The bed, cooking facility (usually a cabinet with basin, cook top, and folding table attached) are most commonly held as a must. The refrigeration may be an ice chest, and the seating for dining is often folding camp chairs that can be securely stored.
One of the work arounds used on the storage is a small plastic 6 pack cooler in a cabinet area that looks permanent. (then a 36 quart ice chest can be carried as an extra) The seating, other than being provided for two people, generally isn't expected to be permanently installed.

If you conform to this outline and your rig passes inspection at a BMV office, it is no problem getting a Van Rig licensed and insurance underwriters will only question how many miles a year, is this a daily driver, how many people will be in it when it is underway, and when it is under way everyone in it must be in a factory installed seat wearing a seat belt. At least this has been my experience.

Nothing is ever said about the flooring. Generally people will use a 1/2 inch plywood over the metal floor so they can install carpet, linoleum, or both. (usually linoleum around the kitchenette dining area) I've seen no builds that used linoleum from the aft frame of the side door to the back of the front seats and carpet from the linoleum to the rear of the of the interior. Then the linoleum could double as a "mud room" if necessary.

 

[overlandsiberia]

I've used GEICO for yrs on all my vehicles. No problem getting my 2023 Ram Promaster cargo van insured. No questions asked. I did not build it out. Just have in my van what l need to live on BLM land at LTVA. Hope this helps.

I will try to get their quote too, but it might be that you are lucking on the grandfathered in policies. Plus, I heard something about Geico only allowing this if you have another non-van vehicle insured with them, otherwise they consider one living full time in a van and they dropped a bunch of people over this.
I just spoke to several insurance agents today again and they told me the last 6-12 months insurance companies had been tightening their requirements, adding new ones.

Basically, I realized I can not buy Ram Promaster for no-build camping as I planned, because I will not be able to insure it or will have to go commercial for crazy money. It is considered a commercial vehicle (unless turned into RV) by almost every carrier now, plus I have added complication of having no garaging address that I can "prove" to them - I had been traveling full time for more years than I can remember, but stayed in short term rentals or just camped out of a small truck, so I have no garaging address that I can prove with 2 pieces of proof including a utility bill, what many agents started requiring now (it's worse through the Agent than direct through websites, actually, it's Agents that underwriters seem to pester more). They won't accept storage facilities or campgrounds as garaging locations (ha, and I will be living overseas most of the time soon, where am I supposed to mostly "garage" a van other than in storage???). Can't even get commercial without garaging address proof, I was told, plus they give some kind of travel radius and if you're out of it you're not covered.

Will have to go with a different option. May be a small van such as Transit Connect + small cargo trailer or a truck + shell + cargo trailer (small van or a truck shell wouldn't be enough for me to stay in + keep my junk collection + lots of water I need to haul for my long stays in the boondocks). These smaller lighter vehicles are mostly accepted as non-commercial by insurance companies and much easier to insure. Even if I found a company that would insure a Promaster without proof of garaging address required, they can drop me any moment or charge me thousands, I just don't want to be there, too risky. I called a campground that does mail handling for full timers today, they told me their clients face car insurance problems because of their address being recognized, the insurers are starting to squeeze full time travelers.

 

[overlandsiberia]

I just got quoted for liability-only for my pretty old sedan car and most companies wanted funny money, only 2 gave me "normal" quotes (I had no accidents or tickets in 20 years, never had insurance claim in my life while being continuously insured for 2 decades). Hate to think what commercial policy with full coverage on a van would be. Definitely not the way to go, I used to be able to rent a house in the US for what they want monthly now.

Basically, will try to work around by getting older, lighter, smaller vehicle than Promaster + cargo trailer: cargo trailer gives the storage or living space you need without needing to go through commercial insurance trouble, and can vary sizes. I think they're trying to force people to buy homes in the US and pay mortgages by these insurance tricks, but every crazy thing has a workaround.

 

[overlandsiberia]

You need liability, only... I think... unless you are making payments... which is something I've never done on a vehicle since I bought my first one at 17. And if insurance companies will not insure a van for liability, then I don't know what the hell the world has come to...

BTW, I've had State Farm my whole life and I'm happy with them... although they should be happy with me too, since I never cost them anything.

I never had full coverage, only liability, my entire life, because of driving older cheaper vehicles and being a good careful driver, not getting into accidents.
I would want to have full coverage on a van because I hear about a lot of vans getting stolen.
Also, a bear tore up my vehicle in the past.
There is a "chassis only" policy I was told that does not include liability, which is used for larger "commercial" vans sitting in a driveway while they're being built out until they're ready to be insured under RV type of policy - this is technically not legal for driving (through Roamly).
Talked to State Farm they told me would want proofs of garaging address on Promaster, at least that particular agent. Another crazy piece off non-sense I heard from one agent today is that actual garage building might be required at garaging location

I've been hit by a sleepy driver once, who dented my bumper (which I had easily fixed myself) who showed me fake insurance card. If they keep tightening their requirements and raising prices to squeeze people I guess more and more will be chosing that option.

 

[overlandsiberia]

For the below I'm using the word "commercial" which in the state I'm from at least until a couple few years back meant pretty much the same thing as cargo. Something used to haul stuff in an assumed commercial capacity and at least they used to register cargo vans as commercial and required one to pay a tonnage fee, at least back in the day.

I had asked multiple insurance agents today about what their carriers classify as "commercial".
They told me it varies by the carrier and the common requirements are: close to or over 9000 GVW (so with the load), a van that lacks windows, van with extended base or tall roof, things with powerful engine. Vans that are more than 250/2500 numbers, often, but smaller ones too. Some pickups and even some SUVs can be auto-classified as commercial based on their powerful engines, plus pickups with dually rear tires.
I was told to get something smaller without powerful engine to avoid being forced into commercial.
This is completely different from Federal commercial vehicle classification, insurance cos do whatever they want.

 

[overlandsiberia]

Another piece of info:

Insurance companies typically consider a 1 Ton and up as a commercial vehicle and will either refuse to put it on a personal lines policy or will put it on a personal lines policy at commercial rates REGARDLESS of it's actual use.

3/4 Ton and less qualifies for personal lines rates unless specified as business and then typically takes the personal lines "business use" rates which could be less that commercial rates.

350/3500-ish vans are 1 ton. But for Ram Promasters even 1500 (1/2 ton) is a commercial vehicle for Progressive now, at least for new policies.