insulating a van with comforters?

[doublegregg]

i FINALLY got a van...chevy express in great shape. i'd like to do a very simple build --- so i'm starting with the walls. i'm thinking of buying two or three down comforters,... maybe it would take three to four... and lining the ceiling and walls with it. problem #1 is - how do i attach it? i guess i'm preferring not to destroy the blankets with holes... all i came up with was some 1x2's and holding it in place... er...somehow... i'm wondering how much insulating quality a down comforter would provide vs. polyiso, which seems to be one of the standards... i guess i'm guessing --- half the r value of a moderate layer of foam???? idk the r value of what most people put in their vans.

i'm a californian, so a newbie to the cold, snow, etc... i will probably avoid extreme cold, if possible. that being.... uh... below 20F. i have a camco wave 3 heater - which is brand new.

comforters would cost........ $300 or so??? there would be.. i guess less mold issues, as air is free to pass through the comforter. i guess they would provide some noise quieting also.......added benefit or drawback: it would resemble an insane asylum? you know,,... white, padded walls........ probably apropos....

for the floor ---- the original rubber mat is still in van. it's slippery, but clean... off gassing doesnt seem horrible... when i go in the van after it's been locked up for a couple days it is kind of noticeable, but not particularly.

thanks in advance.....

 

[nature lover]

You could by comforters for less than $300. BUT you will have a major problem with moisture leading to mildew and even mold. Bob has so great videos about insulation. I could see a vapor barrier of some type and hang your coverlets a little bit away from the wall but my opinion is there are better ways to go about it on those videos. google CRVL and van insulation to find them.

 

[maki2]

Sorry to tell you but your insulation concept is a complete bust, you will end up with big voids and a compacted pile of feathers at the bottom of each division in the comforter.

Down comforters are expensive and the material in them will settle to lower levels due to gravity. This is not a practical or even viable material to use for insulating the walls and ceiling. Stick to traditional insulation materials sold for that purpose, they will not shift due to gravity.

With down comforters and even down clothing you have to fluff them up before use to get the best insulative value out of them. I fluff up my down comforter at least several times a week for that reason. It is all that air in between the downy fine feathers that makes it work so well. Sure the down is light in weight but it is not weightless, they are heavier than air. They will not remain suspended and evenly distributed.

 

[doublegregg]

You could by comforters for less than $300.  BUT you will have a major problem with moisture leading to mildew and even mold.  Bob has so great videos about insulation.  I could see a vapor barrier of some type and hang your coverlets a little bit away from the wall but my opinion is there are better ways to go about it on those videos.  google CRVL and van insulation to find them.

i've watched probably all the videos.... they're great... so you're saying condensation on the inside walls of the van, i assume, when it's cold outside... so gluing foam on the van walls is better? i'd think there would still be condensation, maybe less, maybe much less, but it'd be impossible to detect either way? sounds like you're suggesting a vapor barrier, like i guess tyvex...

 

[doublegregg]

Sorry to tell you but your insulation concept is a complete bust, you will end up with big voids and a compacted pile of feathers at the bottom of each division in the comforter.

thanks......... i am thinking of holding the comforters in place with ... slats... i guess that would maybe just compress the down.. what about polyester, or wool? is everyone saying --- gluing on foam?

 

[maki2]

Speaking of insulation shifting, I would also avoid the concept of blown in soft insulations such as the popular with eco crowd blue denim fibers and naturual wool fibers. Those too obey the laws of gravity and since you are driving around in a great big vibrating shaking machine that too will end up with voids at the top of the compartments and increasingly more compacted areas on down to the bottom of the cavity. When insulation is compacted there is no air and the air is what helps slow down the transfer of the heat.

Ridged foam actually has a lot of air incorporated into it when it is made so while it seems solid there is a lot of air in that material. It is suitable.

Fiberglass bats are soft and fluffy and hold a lot of air but they don't shift for the types with the foil and paper faced rolls. The can be secured to the structure using tape. It is suitable.

Sprayed in foam insulation won't shift. It is suitable.

 

[jacqueg]

Besides the expense and the settling, a major problem with using down for wall insulation is that when it gets damp, it loses its insulating qualities. And it WILL get damp.

I'm an old hand with down, and I love it, but it's far from perfect. I have two down comforters for bedding, and you will see me airing them outside every few days.

I know this is not the received wisdom, but I decided to not insulate my van. It didn't seem to me that it was worth the trouble to add an inch of insulation to such a small space, and I worried about putting it up incorrectly and creating pockets between the insulation and the van that would collect moisture. This spring, I was sleeping comfortably without a heater on nights that were in the high 20s. And I've been reasonably comfortable on 80 degree days by making sure I had good cross ventilation.

YMMV.

 

[MrNoodly]

i'm a californian, so a newbie to the cold, snow, etc... i will probably avoid extreme cold, if possible. that being.... uh... below 20F.

Since you're not one of those committed to living in places with harsh winters, it would be simpler to insulate your body.

The more troublesome issue might be keeping the heat out in summer.

 

[jonyjoe303]

Instead of comforters, something that might work better is sleeping bags. I buy all my sleeping bags at the thrift store, they always have them there at cheap prices. Just wash them good. Those would work better then comforters and much cheaper. The only drawback is they are heavier than foam insulation and might sag unless installed securely.



In southern california all I ever needed was foam insulation, that works good for me, I don't even use a heater anymore. For gluing the insulation, use hotglue it has no fumes and works great with the rtech foam I use. Hotglue sticks excellent to other foam so you can layer it. I got 6 layers of 1/2 foam on the roof all held by hotglue. All you need is a 60 watt hot glue gun, if wattage is too hot it will melt the foam. Alot of people avoid the foam because of the fumes of some of the liquid glues and the time it takes to dry, but hotglue makes quick work because it dries in minutes.



Picture of my roof insulation, its about 6 layers, notice how the foam is cut into small sections, hotglue dries quickly, so your sections have to be small. You have to use the same method on the walls. You can cut in real small sections to go around corners or over obstacles. The rtech foam I use I buy at home depot 4x8 foot section of 1/2" thickness cost 9 dollars. Use a box cutter to cut it.

 

[DannyB1954]

There are advantages and disadvantages to every insulation. I considered insulating with second hand comforters from thrift shops but came to the conclusion that it would take as much effort to hold them in place than just put in other insulation. Synthetic fibers would do better with moisture than down. If you ever had a sagging headliner in a car, now imagine one that weighs 4 times as much.

In my van I used foam for the ceiling and cellulose insulation in the walls. There were more things that I liked about cellulose than disliked. It doesn't burn, it deadens sounds, bugs don't like it, doesn't mold, and it fills every small void. When my van was customized they removed wall frame members to put windows in. I wanted to add strength to support the roof so I installed wood studs. This created a odd shaped area for insulation to go in because of the shape of the van's side walls. By filling in the space with loose insulation I now have a minimum of 3 1/2" of insulation. and in places it goes up to maybe 5 1/2".

I took care of the mentioned settling issue by putting the cellulose in a bag and sucking out most of the air when I packed it into place. The plastic bags also act as a vapor barrier. The process was a pain to do.

After I was done I found bags of bean bag foam beads that I would have probably used instead as they are much lighter.

 

[billybob200138]

-20 degree sleeping bag at Wal-Mart for $60! A cooking stove like Bobs(yes, that Bob) for 32$! And don't forget to borrow some of Bob's magic dust and you'll be just fine. Personally I don't insulate being a member of the Southeastern tribe! HoboJoe

 

[doublegregg]

Since you're not one of those committed to living in places with harsh winters, it would be simpler to insulate your body.

The more troublesome issue might be keeping the heat out in summer.

so ------- say i don't insulate the van... that leaves the option of insulate later. i also just rewatched bob wells' video (2017, i think) in which he only insulates the walls with polyiso... not the ceiling or floor...so that's literally half insulated... i'm SORT of used to little or no insulation... i live by the coast in the bay area, so PERFECT sort of temperature: never too hot, winters go down to mid or lower forties, rarely frosts. i huddle by the one or two heaters in my house, the house heats up via the heat... i'm bundled up. the van seems like a big tin can, but it's a tiny space... is running my wave3 for heat on those cold nights and mornings --- doable? should i give it a try? i'm wondering if it would be an improvement over my hard to heat house....! downsides would be outside noise is noisy. 

and if i hated it, i add foam or polyester, etc later. i'm doing this step by step, and as simple as possible. i can do a build, but just am not into an elaborate one...so adding insulation later might not be much worse than doing it at the start..?

for heat, bob advised that heat just gets in. i guess you use fans and shade and reflectors? more than insulation. 

thanks - great suggestions...

 

[doublegregg]

Instead of comforters, something that might work better is sleeping bags. I buy all my sleeping bags at the thrift store, they always have them there at cheap prices. Just wash them good. Those would work better then comforters and much cheaper. The only drawback is they are heavier than foam insulation and might sag unless installed securely.



In southern california all I ever needed was foam insulation, that works good for me, I don't even use a heater anymore. For gluing the insulation, use hotglue it has no fumes and works great with the rtech foam I use. Hotglue sticks excellent to other foam so you can layer it. I got 6 layers of 1/2 foam on the roof all held by hotglue. All you need is a 60 watt hot glue gun, if wattage is too hot it will melt the foam. Alot of people avoid the foam because of the fumes of some of the liquid glues and the time it takes to dry, but hotglue makes quick work because it dries in minutes.



Picture of my roof insulation, its about 6 layers, notice how the foam is cut into small sections, hotglue dries quickly, so your sections have to be small. You have to use the same method on the walls. You can cut in real small sections to go around corners or over obstacles. The rtech foam I use I buy at home depot 4x8 foot section of 1/2" thickness cost 9 dollars. Use a box cutter to cut it.

jonyjoe, did you insulate all the walls and ceiling, and about how long did it take and how many sheets?  i'm assuming it's quieter, such as if you're at a truck stop overnight... i'm wondering if sleeping bags (polyester, etc) would be much easier to stick up..  does the insulation help much in the heat? 

and would it be easy to remove all of it..........if it came to that.

 

[Stardust]

Congrats on the van!  As others have said, down is wonderful for bedding or clothing, but not for van insulation. But wool fleece batting insulation (internet search: Havelock) is a type you may be interested in checking out. Note that this is wool from sheep that has been manufactured (minimally)into batting and loose fill specifically for insulation and works well. There are video links on the Havelock site that demonstrate how to install this in a van. 
Regardless of what insulation you end up using, keep in mind that a van is not a house and what you would use in a house may not be applicable to a vehicle.  For example, the steel skin of the van is your "vapor barrier." Cracking open a window can serve for ventilation.

 

[crofter]

PolyISO it's not that bad. Like jonyjoe (who invented this method) I used a hot glue gun after trying other glues that failed. I put the polyiso up in 2 foot square sections between the roof ribs, and then covered with light material also hot glued on, and a few slats screwed into the ribs just in case. Hot glue method can be done in an afternoon.   -crofter

 

[crofter]

Also there are 1000 other uses for hot glue. After I did the ceiling, I hung a tapestry and made some wall pockets in my sleeping area for my glasses etc to not get lost.  Using fabric and hot glue made it much more homey in there, and filled in some of the odd spaces here and there.  -crofter

 

[doublegregg]

PolyISO it's not that bad. Like jonyjoe (who invented this method)  I used a hot glue gun after trying other glues that failed. I put the polyiso up in 2 foot square sections between the roof ribs, and then covered with light material also hot glued on, and a few slats screwed into the ribs just in case. Hot glue method can be done in an afternoon.   -crofter

i'm tempted to say i can do this......... bob recommended xps (extruded polystyrene) because it bends..... 1/2" thick... does polyiso bend also? we have a stay in place order here... not sure i can run to home depot .... altho it is open, i assume.  between xps and polyiso -- neither of which i'm familiar with --- which is better in terms of noxious fumes and workability?  doing it in an afternoon sounds wonderful.... um., but there might be mold behind the poly or xps? between it and the cargo van metal.........? and you'd never see it.

 

[crofter]

...but there might be mold behind the poly or xps? between it and the cargo van metal.........? and you'd never see it.

My van stays pretty dry and I add dessicant to keep it dry. But correct, you can not see what's behind whatever you put up. PolyISO does not absorb moisture at all and neither does the foamboard.

Foamboard is the more bendable and comes in different thicknesses. I put up a 1 inch layer. I think jonyjoe put up thinner layers overlapping. If you can't go out, you can do an online order and pick it up or get them to deliver it.

I bought my stuff at home depot including the glue gun and glue. Use the lower wattage glue gun, I bought the big one which was faster but also burned some holes in my polyiso.   -crofter

 

[doublegregg]

My van stays pretty dry and I add dessicant to keep it dry. But correct, you can not see what's behind whatever you put up. PolyISO does not absorb moisture at all and neither does the foamboard.

Foamboard is the more bendable and comes in different thicknesses. I put up a 1 inch layer. I think jonyjoe put up thinner layers overlapping. If you can't go out, you can do an online order and pick it up or get them to deliver it.

I bought my stuff at home depot including the glue gun and glue. Use the lower wattage glue gun, I bought the big one which was faster but also burned some holes in my polyiso.   -crofter

tysm, crofter. also for the glue gun warning........ yes, jonyjoe put up 1/2" thick layers, i think... very interesting idea of his (or hers)

 

[jacqueg]

so ------- say i don't insulate the van... that leaves the option of insulate later. i also just rewatched bob wells' video (2017, i think) in which he only insulates the walls with polyiso... not the ceiling or floor...so that's literally half insulated... i'm SORT of used to little or no insulation... i live by the coast in the bay area, so PERFECT sort of temperature: never too hot, winters go down to mid or lower forties, rarely frosts. i huddle by the one or two heaters in my house, the house heats up via the heat... i'm bundled up. the van seems like a big tin can, but it's a tiny space... is running my wave3 for heat on those cold nights and mornings --- doable? should i give it a try? i'm wondering if it would be an improvement over my hard to heat house....! downsides would be outside noise is noisy. 

and if i hated it, i add foam or polyester, etc later. i'm doing this step by step, and as simple as possible. i can do a build, but just am not into an elaborate one...so adding insulation later might not be much worse than doing it at the start..?

for heat, bob advised that heat just gets in. i guess you use fans and shade and reflectors? more than insulation. 

thanks - great suggestions...

I think it all depends on your own comfort levels and how/why you intend to travel.

If the weather where I am looks like it's getting either too cold or too hot, I go somewhere else. 

But if your reason for living in a van is to snowboard year-round, then probably insulating would make sense for you.