Inexpensive, compact battery charger?

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"And once the battery is connected to the charger output, isn't it the case that the SoC of the battery is dictating the voltage of the combined circuit?"

yes...on a true 3-stage charger.

again regular old smart charging, multi-stage, 90000000A car battery chargers aren't doing that.
 
bardo said:
You cannot just make the assumption because it says 20 AMPS!!! that it's the same thing as a deep cycle bulk charger.

OK, now I wasn't discussing suitability for deep cycle vs starter, just your claim about the standard meaning for the "smart/intelligent" designation.

I'm also not saying the vendor using "smart" makes me think it's better, any talk of anti-sulfation cycling, charger applying loads etc make me suspicious.

I would need to ready detailed evidence-backed reviews from people whose posts have earned them credibility over time, and haven't seen any such for the likes of Schumacher & Noco much less Black&Decker.

For use that is with large-capacity true deep-cycle banks.

And if a vendor misrepresents their actual ampage to me that's disqualifying.

The only units I would myself consider acceptable do all in fact cost more than OP's willing to spend.

But a single 100AH battery is certainly at the lower end of that use case, so maybe something within range of $100-150 would be "good enough" for the OP.
 
So, I've read all 22 replies here and I'm confused...

Answers and arguments are all well and good.  I have no disrespect for any of that, but I am still wondering which one to buy that won't be a waste of precious resources.

Like the op, I don't want to spend more than we need to, I don't want to have to rebuy after an upgrade of other components...

Several were suggested, but almost each one was shot down for one reason or another.

As a result, I'm not sure which one or type to buy...

I'm not wanting to downplay any answers, but honestly all the conflicting answers can leave one confused...

 I know there cannot possibly be a one size fits all, but which one BEST FITS with the Best Features for a one time buyer?
 
galladanb said:
So, I've read all 22 replies here and I'm confused...

Answers and arguments are all well and good.  I have no disrespect for any of that, but I am still wondering which one to buy that won't be a waste of precious resources.

Like the op, I don't want to spend more than we need to, I don't want to have to rebuy after an upgrade of other components...

Several were suggested, but almost each one was shot down for one reason or another.

As a result, I'm not sure which one or type to buy...

I'm not wanting to downplay any answers, but honestly all the conflicting answers can leave one confused...

 I know there cannot possibly be a one size fits all, but which one BEST FITS with the Best Features for a one time buyer?

I would go with Sternwake's Megawatt ,  I've been charging my 220 amp hour 
house bank with the simular 40 amp output Meanwell that Stern recommended and
it's truly amazing. 
The Mega watt is simular to the Meanwell except a little less of a amp output and
cheaper.
You could just dial it in to your desired voltage and leave it , that is if you don't
want to go to the effort  of installing a (optional) external potentiometer for
easier tuning.
 
For a Single 100Ah battery flooded or AGM, I would recommend the Iota DLS-30, as it is enough amperage for a later upgrade to a pair of GC-2 golf cart batteries.

For starting out with a single pair of 208+AH of golf cart batteries, I would recommend the progresive dynamics PD9245, either the 14.4 or 14.8v model as 15 more amps and the ability to choose one of three target voltages is a very desirable feature.

I would not buy ANY of the garage 'smart' chargers for use on a regularly deeply cycled battery. These are good for occassional use on a starter or perhaps marine battery where a true 100% recharge is not all that important.

If one refuses to spend the ~150$ for either of these 2 converters, then I would go with the 80$ prologix 2/10/20 amp garage charger I previously linked, and simply learn to not trust its 'full charge' indicator. Learn how to load battery with a big load until voltage falls to 12.6v or less, then restart charger, then remove load. Lather rinse repeating/ tricking the 'smart' charger into restarting, is required for a garage charger to get a hard working abused battery to a true full, and nobody should drive away from 8+ hours of grid power with less than 100% charged batteries.

To be fair, the RV converters can also drop out of way absorption too early as well. the PD can be forced back to 14.4v at the press of a button. the Iota would need to be disconnected from 115vac then reconnected.

A huge advantage of the RVconverter over a garage charger, is one can keep using their DC loads while battery charging. Doing this with a 'smart' garage charger will confuse it and cause it to shut itself off as it thinks something is wrong with the battery.

One other consideration of garage chargers is the alligator clips beat the F out of the battery terminals over time, and are not meant to be left on battery full time, and are a potential source of sparks. If that alligator clamp slips off a battery that is gassing, it could present an ignition danger.

No the RV converters are not sexy, and one has to provide their own DC output cables( The HORROR!!!), but in function, they are superior to any garage charger, no matter how well marketed nor how pleasing its plastic casing and LED displays are to the eyeball.

And for those wanting to recharge fully in the minimal time possible departent, a manual, Adjustable voltage high amp charger/power supply, will win that contest every single time, but it is not automatic. I know it produces heaps of anxiety, but these adjustable voltage power supplies either must be turned off, by a Human with an opposable thumb, or have their voltage reduced, also by a human with an opposable thumb, at the appropriate time. Truly involved rocket science. Beware, and run screaming holding your smartphone taking selfies along the way sharing your horror for all to see.

When one gets sick of having to trick their garage charger into restarting, multiple times, one then wishes their charging source would simply hold absorption voltage for longer, as takes less work, and effort, and time. That is the beauty of an adjustable voltage powersupply Seek and hold absorption voltage.

The only factor is 'How Long'

Well, until amps accepted by the battery at absorption voltage taper to about 2% of capacity(20 hour rate) on a flooded battery, and 0.5% of capacity on a AGM. Requiring an AMMeter. Again, run screaming at this horror toward the product with the lying green light on it, then line up with the other ostriches who are yellng under the sand, that 'float equals full, float equals full.'
 
Mobilesport said:
I would go with Sternwake's Megawatt ,  I've been charging my 220 amp hour 
house bank with the simular 40 amp output Meanwell that Stern recommended and
it's truly amazing. 
The Mega watt is simular to the Meanwell except a little less of a amp output and
cheaper.

As long as you realize it requires the user to determine when the bank is full and turn it off.

Or guesstimate in advance and use an external timer.

There is no inexpensive "good for any use case", saving money means sacrificing quality or features, and what YOU are willing to compromise on depends on your use case.

For example: will your system need to support running loads while recharging the bank? That requires a lot more intelligence than just recharging an isolated battery.

If you want automatic multi-stage, "hook it up and come back tomorrow", then you have to choose between decent high-amp output or a lower up-front cost.

Quality, true high output and automatic multi-stage will cost $200+.

And IMO if you're making that investment you may as well add adjustable set-points so you can optimize for high-end chemistries, if you decide to invest in Trojan, high-end AGM, Firefly or LFP down the road rather than then having to buy a new charger.

My list of trusted brands:

Victron
Mastervolt
Sterling
ProMariner

​Progressive Dynamics
Iota

Megawatt
Meanwell

Optimate
 
SternWake said:
Well, until amps accepted by the battery at absorption voltage taper to about 2% of capacity(20 hour rate) on a flooded battery, and 0.5% of capacity on a AGM. Requiring an AMMeter.
Desiring an automated solution is valid.

Long as you're not sacrificing quality or other more important attributes, nor expecting to get everything you want at Walmart prices.

----
I realize the following is a bit OT.

So with your manual units as the foundation, a fine-adjustable High Voltage disconnect could maybe do the job, but as you say something triggering a relay based on reaching a low Current would be better.

No ideas on a standalone device for that?

----
Another thought I had, maybe any old cheap but powerful charge source could be on the input side of a ​Victron BlueSolar MPPT controller, which offers very precise and programmable output setpoints.

Obviously, you'd need to be careful the total voltage didn't exceed the input spec, but it seems going higher than rated current is OK, the unit just limits the output current going into the battery.

I'm thinking, since I want to design my setup for a future solar install anyway, going this way may save me having to also buy a high-amp Sterling battery-to-battery charger for split-charging banks of unlike chemistries.
 
Sorry Bardo, was that supposed to be addressed to me or galladanb?

There are many similar units on the market, my questions were along the lines of the other components enabling to put such to use in an automated setup.
 
Others, have propsed the Idea of feeding a  capable MPPT programmable solar charge controller with a voltage/amperage/temperature protected power supply, and a few have done so successfully.  I first contemplated this back in 2014 when i was still deciding on a route for a grid powered charger, as none of them would do what I knew was needed.
  
I've not pursued this route, but it is a worthy route.


The amperage threshold, or end amps at absorption voltage, is the best trigger there is as to determining when a lead acid battery no longer needs absorption voltage to be held.  The charging source needs to determine how much is going into the battery(s), versus going into powering the DC loads. If one does not have the ability to see amperage only into the batteries, or turns off ALL possible dc loads when charging, then one is simply guessing.

And it needs to be programmed correctly, and this seems to be a deal breaker for many who much rather trust marketing material's lies and deceptions, and blinking green lights and want it perfect, delivered yesterday, for free with a reach around and a compliment.

Trust but verify, seems to have taken a backseat. I don't trust, but I do verify.
 Bust out an Ammeter and or a Hydrometer.  The green light lies.

Modern Product marketing =  proud deceit, manipulation, and lying.

I have a contempt for anything 'automatic' regarding lead acid battery charging, and am not personally going to pursue anything along those lines, as I find it extremely easy to turn a knob or flick a switch at the proper time.  If I am not going to be around at the proper time, then time to recharge is not a concern either, and I will instead lower voltage, and walk away.

Takes no more time than it does to push a button.

I'm done with this thread
 
The charge controller route apparent wreaks havoc on a power supply because the PWM shuts off and on so fast.
 
To the OP. I forgot to include CTEK in my trusted vendors list. Swedish, and OEM for many luxury car makers.

Yes of the garage type, but even with their low-end MUS 4.3 unit (claimed 8 amps), they do state 100AH as within but at the top of the capacity range. I would presume that means, if you were to draw down more than 10-20%, it would take at least overnight to refill to 100%.

I suspect it is "truly intelligent" so the disconnect / load /reconnect shenanigans SW describes wouldn't be required to get there.

https://www.amazon.com/CTEK-56-864-Automatic-Battery-Charger/dp/B006G14FK8


As expected, their higher-amp version is in the $200 range. Their 3.3A unit would of course be too small.
 
The more "intelligent" it is the harder it tries to not charge your battery. If it charges it might overcharge and that would be so bad that every effort must be made not to charge.
 
At the high end, some algorithms actually stop and measure, even apply a load.

Yes such diagnostics slow down overall time to 100% , but they do get there eventually.

Not saying you get that kind of "true smarts" in a $50 unit, but CTEK I would trust, along with the other much more expensive vendors I listed.

Australia's got some great vendors too, the newer the firmware more likely to be better too, very competitive environment, good engineering now worldwide, cheap as chips now means in electronics not potatoes.

But high-quality vendors will charge a premium.
 
galladanb said:
So, I've read all 22 replies here and I'm confused...

You're doing a hell of a lot better than I am!
It was my question, and I lost the ability to comprehend anything after the first two or three replies. :huh:  These guys may as well be speaking Latin for all I am getting out of it.  All I can gather is that they don't agree.
I hope it helps someone lol.
 
Bottom line is a decent unit of any type will cost more than you were planning to spend.

You did understand you need Amps, if you KNOW the 100AH is all you will need for years AND you will be getting solar, then 15-20 may be enough, but otherwise 20-40 is better.

The four types are A garage designed for starters, lots of overpriced deceptive cheap crap in that segment.

B power supplies, excellent quality and value if you will be willing to attend to adjusting the charge cycle manually.

C purpose-built for high-amp deep-cycle charging, truly intelligent and quality components

C1 designed for marine and/or tough overlander conditions

C2 designed for RV and camper trailers

Step one, choose a category.

Step two decide on an Amps range, lower to save $$.

High amps, quality components AND automated truly smart charge cycling is IMO minimum $150~200.

Getting down to < $100 involves sacrificing in at least one of those.

Regarding size, I suspect high-amp and quality components are in conflict with that.

If you understand this summary, you should be able to parse through the preceding discussion.

Step 3 make a shortlist of recommended units that fit and do your research, google other forums, read the manuals and spec sheets.

Maybe ask more specific questions, and finally come to your own - now much more informed - decision.

Or just spend the extra money on a top-notch brand my recommendation from C1.

Sterling

Victron

ProMariner
 
A fellow van dweller used the 15 amp version of this one in his build.
I found the 20 amp version and it is under $100 bucks...

Do you all think it's any good and could actually charge a dual 6v 200ah setup overnight?
 
no link came through for what unit you're talking about
 
And IMO 20A is too low unless you're very rarely drawing down your full 50%.

If usually drawing only say 50AH in a day, then even 15A is OK.

And is "overnight" ten hours or six?

It really does take a **long** time to get the last 5% in there and yes, it's important for longevity with all lead except Firefly. Solar can be a great way to get that long top-up.

But if Sam's Club rather than Rolls Surrette, maybe the bank lasting half as long is a worthwhile trade-off for some.
 
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