Ignoring a knock

[Delta223]

Hi;<br><br>Has anyone ever ignored the dreaded knock on the windows from a maglite? Or is this far too risky to even consider?

 

[Van-Tramp]

No risk at all. <br><br>Unless the police have a warrant, you are NOT OBLIGATED to answer a knock on your door (this may be dependent on if that state recognizes your vehicle as an extension of your house). If it is a traffic stop (which means you were driving or in the driver's seat) then you would want to roll your window down enough to hand him your license, registration, and insurance, but say nothing more. If he asks you ANY question, you <strong>only</strong> response should be (politely), "Thank you officer, but I am not answering any questions. Am I being detained?" If his response is a "no", thank him for his service and inform him that you will be leaving... then leave. (let him do his job to run your license and vehicle information before leaving... you will want your license back first)<br><br>If he asks you to exit the vehicle, do so but close the door and LOCK IT behind you. Do not give him permission to search yourself or your vehicle under any circumstances, even if he says he has a warrant. Do not answer any question. Continue to ask if you are being detained until he responses with a "no" then simply leave. If his responses is a "yes" to that question, say nothing more other than asking for an attorney. Do NOT unlock your vehcile for him to search. Do NOT give permission for him to search yourself or your vehicle. He still may not have that right, even if you are being detained.<br><br>Basically, you are <strong>never obligated to speak to a police officer</strong>... ever. So don't. They spend hours upon hours training to trick you into saying something that will give them the upper hand. As long as you never say a word, you have the upper hand in any police conversation.

 

[Zil]

I should not get involved here. Every thing Van posts is true, but if you follow Van's advice you will be sure to be hassled big time by a police officer.

 

[mockturtle]

You could even get towed away!&nbsp; <img src="/images/boards/smilies/eek.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">

 

[Simran]

All this may be true, however, I find it strange that anyone would completely ignore another human being. Cop or not! It would most certainly arouse suspicion in nearly anyone; especially an officer of the law.<br>I've been sleeping in my van for two years, almost,&nbsp;in several different states. I've only paid for a spot a handful of times; only to secure shower facilities. I've never had a knock on my window; ever. My van is about as far from stealth as you can get (pic. below).<br>If you use common sense I see no reason why you should ever have problems with the law unless you are doing something wrong. I'm not saying that I will NEVER get a tap on the window; but I doubt it will ever come to a point where I'm ignoring a police officer. I simply refuse to believe that police officers are out to get anyone. Sure, there are bad apples in every basket; but by-and-large they are just out doing their job like me.<br>gus<br><br>now is this stealth or what!!!

 

[Delta223]

If that is your perspective Gus, you should account for the rudeness of the other party also. There's only so many things a person can do in the back of a van and at 11pm at night the most obvious choice is probably the correct one.&nbsp;<br><br>So why do they knock? Are people who sleep in vehicles lower status and deserving of disruption &amp; questioning? I don't think they are.<br><br>

 

[Simran]

Delta,<br>Maybe I just inherently expect to be bothered at some point because it is out of the norm's of the society we live in. Any time we cross that line we are begging to bring someone a long eventually; if even for just a moment. It is what/how we choose to address/handle that moment that will make all the difference in our lives and theirs. <br><br>Use it as an opportunity to educate; not alienate.<br><br>Gus

 

[Van-Tramp]

Any cop (without a chip on his shoulder) will gladly accept someone politely saying "I will not answer any questions, may I leave now?" with a smile and a thank you. Obviously, if you say with attitude, they will respond with attitude. There are polite ways of saying the above and 99% of officers will respond back with a polite, "thank you, have a nice day". You can talk with them, just don't answer their questions...<br><br>"Hey officer, how are you doing? Been busy tonight? Hope all is going wll for you... Sure, here is my ID. Am I sleeping in my van tonight? Sorry, I hope you understand that I will not answer that. Where am I going too? Sorry, I hope you understand that I will not answer that. Am I being detained? Am I under arrest? OK, have a great night and stay safe!. Thanks for your service." (then drive off, nice and simple)<br><br>They all know that we have our rights. They know that they can not infringe upon those rights. They know that we have the upper hand until we ALLOW them to violate our rights. If the officer has a VALID reason to hold you, he will hold you no matter what you say in answer to his questions... so why say anything at all? Often times, they have no reason to hold a person until that person opens his or her mouth and says something that gives the officer probable cause.<br><br>Remember:<strong> It is against the law to lie to a police officer. It is NOT against the law for the officer to lie to you.</strong> (<em>including telling you that they have the right to search your vehicle. They say that only so you give them permission, and THEN they have the right.</em>)<br><br>You have every legal right to ignore a random knock on the door (you do not know who it is and you should not open your door, for your own safety). Maybe if the officer verbally identifies himself as an officer of the law first... at which point, I would ask for his identification before giving him my own. If he fails to supply identification, you should dial the local police dept and inform them that you have someone impersonating an officer trying to get you to step out of the car. <br><br>Ask any lawyer (or even any cop) and every single one will tell you, never answer questions from the police. You may be legally obligated to identify yourself, but you are not legally obligated to say another word after that. If they harass you for exercising your constitutional rights, get a lawyer and take the settlement that they will most certainly be offering.

 

[caseyc]

Van Tramp,<br><br>You da MAN! Thanks for the info!<br><br>Casey

 

[Van-Tramp]

As for your vehicle being towed away, <br><br>They have no right to tow a vehicle without proper notice of intent to tow, which usually requires 24 hours notice minimum, as long as you are legally parked. Ever see the cars on the high-ways with big bright orange stickers on them? That is the notice to tow, they can't tow it without the notice. <br><br>The police have NO AUTHORITY to tow you from private property (such as a shopping center parking lot), that is up to the property owner to request that, not the police, and still requires notice of intent to tow.<br><br>Lastly, no towing company will tow a vehicle with someone inside it. If the officer suspects the van is occupied, he can not have it towed.<br><br>The worst thing that an officer can do to you by ignoring a knock is to put a "notice to tow" notification on your van. Just be gone within 24 hours.

 

[caseyc]

I too highly doubt a van would get towed away simply due to ignoring a knock.&nbsp; Doesn't make any sense.&nbsp; The only time I've ever seen vehicles get towed is after they have had fair warning, such as getting a "72 Hour Parking Violation" warning plastered on their windshield, or maybe getting the Denver boot, or maybe having repeated parking tickets accumulate on the windshield.&nbsp; <br><br>The only times I've seen vehicles get towed away with-OUT warning is if for example a vehicle is blocking a driveway or garage, and an upset neighbor calls to complain.&nbsp; Or maybe the vehicle is parked illegally in a bus zone or handicapped zone.&nbsp; The number one reason why I see cars get towed away immediately is if they are parked at certain streets that are clearly marked with signs that say NO PARKING during hours of 3pm to 6pm Monday through Friday (due to commuter hours).&nbsp; <br><br>Many tow trucks are literally waiting along the street just prior to the 3pm deadline, and waiting for the traffic control person to issue a ticket on the windshield.&nbsp; The tow trucks then swarm in like vultures to tow away the offending cars, all the while with the alarm blaring away.&nbsp; <br><br>One time my GF had a junkie car and the alarm kept blaring at all hours of the night while parked.&nbsp; The neighbors called to complain, and the car got towed away.&nbsp; It cost over $400 to retrieve the towed vehicle the next day!&nbsp; That car had electrical problems which also caused the alarm to sound for no apparent reason.&nbsp; <br><br>What was funny (or not so funny) is when I went to the yard to help my GF retrieve her towed vehicle, there was another poor sucker waiting to retrieve&nbsp;his towed vehicle.&nbsp; I asked the guy why his vehicle got towed, and he told me it was because President Obama was driving through town to get to the hotel.&nbsp;As a result, the police towed away ALL the cars that were parked on the same route that Obama was driving through to get to the hotel. Unreal!! This happened without any prior&nbsp;notice. I thought that was an extreme example, but sh!t like that happens all the time. <img class="emoticon bbc_img" src="/images/boards/smilies/eek.gif">

 

[mockturtle]

Not sure where you live but here in WA you can be towed with no notice whatsoever.&nbsp; Many private parking lots that have signs posted stating that unauthorized vehicles will be towed, and at your own expense.&nbsp; Now, if you're in the vehicle at the time, and start screaming, the tow truck driver might take pause.&nbsp;

<span id="post_message_1279118104">as long as you are legally parked</span>

Well, there's the rub.&nbsp; Parking in parking lot behind a restaurant or theater where you are not a patron will get your car towed in Seattle.&nbsp; I guarantee it.

 

[caseyc]

I would not park overnight&nbsp;at a restaurant or theater parking lot.&nbsp; That's because they usually have (mall) security patrol cars driving around to check out all the vehicles.&nbsp; I'm guessing if they suspect you are parking overnight to sleep they will call the tow company to tow you.&nbsp; But that's completely different than parking legally on a city street.

 

[Van-Tramp]

Who says you are not a patron of the theater or restaurant? The cop doesn't know if you are in the business or WILL BE in the business in a few minutes. He can not tow you just because he 'suspects'. Park behind a 24-hour place (Denny's is great!) and there you go.<br><br>Mockturtle, for you I would park on the public street. <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a href="http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/parking/parking72hour.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">City of Seattle 72-Hour On-Street Parking Ordinance</a></span> (this is pretty standard in every city I have checked), but yes, each city/county/state may have different codes and all easily reviewed online now-a-days. But, I'd recommend not parking within a major metro area as the first step to avoid that knock in the middle of the night. Get outside the Seattle city limits proper and things will get much easier very fast.<br><br>Per the code linked above, RV's are not allowed... but if we are in a "van" then you can park there for up to 72 hours before they can start getting on your case. This may all depend on how you have your vehicle registered of course. No matter the parking code, you may still ignore any knock on the door.<br><br>Again, parking on private party requires the owner to make the call. The police can not make the call for them since the police does not know if you have permission or not. I'd certainly use some common sense in where I park though. Parking in front of a dumpster, blocking a driveway, or in a loading bay may not be very smart and you should expect to be woken up by an angry knock and rightfully so.<br><br>

 

[Patrick46]

I like that idea of parking behind a Denny's or other 24 hour business.<BR><BR><BR>I park alot on BLM land (we seem to have a fair amount of it out here)...however, I've been wondering about when I really start traveling again as to where the best places to park without getting rousted would be???<BR><BR><BR>btw, if you told a cop that banged on your door and woke you up at 3:30am..."officer, yes I&nbsp;<SPAN style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline"><STRONG>AM</STRONG></SPAN> sleeping in my van, but after driving for 12 hours, I feel that I'd be endangering myself and the general public to be at the wheel"<BR><BR>Would he be <EM><STRONG>OBGLIGATED</STRONG></EM> to leave you be???<BR><BR>or...what if you told him you were broke down, and simply awaiting the auto parts store to open?? and by that reason alone, wouldn't&nbsp;an auto parts store&nbsp;be a good place to park?? (in the right neighborhood, of course!!) <IMG class="emoticon bbc_img" src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif">

 

[Van-Tramp]

Patrick, he may not ask you to leave for safety reasons, but he can cite you for it. He could even bring you in to sleep the rest of the night in a cell. Most larger cities of ordinances against sleeping in your car. You would be admitting to violating a city ordinance (law) and he could treat you as a criminal at that point, including arresting you and searching your vehicle. Then all it takes is for him to find that knife, or bug spray, or spray-paint, or baseball-bat, or pellet gun, or... (you get the point?) and you are now spending time in jail just because you answered a question to a police officer and admitted to being a criminal.<br><br>Personally I do not stay overnight within city limits very often, but yes Patrick, I have heard many people say that an auto parts or repair shop is a good idea for that very easy excuse (waiting for shop to open). But that means you should be moving on before or when the shop opens or they will be wondering what you are doing out there. I kinda like to sleep in myself.<br><br>Walmarts, Kmarts, Lowe's, Home Depots, Truck stops, Casinos, (all these are private property) and Rest areas (state property)... there really are so many places to stay overnight where you are basically 'welcomed' already. Why park behind a private business asking for that knock on the door to begin with?

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

My bro in law had the small town mayor tow his truck without notice, paint parking lines that were not there afterward and hang a no parking sign (the mayor owns a business next to his and the parking wars began...).&nbsp; He went and took his truck back and they arrested him with great fanfare and joy.&nbsp; The charges were dropped and the prosecutor told him he should sue for the towing fee and more.&nbsp; Either way he was told he had to pay the tow fee, and couldn't just take his truck back from the tow guy <img rel="lightbox" src="/images/boards/smilies/rofl.gif" class="bbc_img">&nbsp; <br><br>Cops knocked on me the other night...i was on private property, at my own work (motel/resturant) and had permission.&nbsp; Didn't stop them from buggin me though.&nbsp; As soon as i opened the slider they were looking inside past me.&nbsp; My advice is if you don't want them to see in your vehicle, dont go out through the slider.

 

[James AKA Lynx]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the police could lock you up for 24 hrs without charging anything.<br><br>It is best to be polite. that will handle 99% of problems. You never know what they are looking for. Call 911 before opening anything. They may know you have parked there after 10pm. Don't lie but do not confess guilt.<br><br>A lot of cities the police are not comming out for burglaries or&nbsp; damage to your van. They have to much to do.<br><br>James AKA Lynx

 

[Van-Tramp]

James, yes I believe they can IF it related to a crime... and actually it is 72 hours in most states, not 24 hours. However, they can not just round up any "Average Joe" on the street and hold them for no reason, not even for the 24-72 hours. They still have to arrest or detain you, which still requires probable cause or an admission on your part. <br><br>So again, don't give them an admission... don't answer any questions (not answering their questions is NOT probable cause. Even if the officer says it is, it is not, it is another trick they are trained to use on you.)<br><br>And yea I agree. Most city police forces have better things to then knock on our doors, so an ignored knock will quickly become a back-burner item for them that evening while the respond to a more important call.

 

[angeli]

I'm not sure how valid some of this advice is. &nbsp;It would certainly be nice if our legal rights were observed, however nowadays that is less likely to happen. &nbsp;I do know for sure that if, in my area of the country, I were standing in front of my van in the middle of the night, in an urban parking lot, and the officer in front of me asked me questions I (politely) refused to answer, the officer would most probably escalate the stop to a problem issue, would develop a suspicion that a crime was being committed in my van, and I'd get searched and tazed, if not worse.<br><br>Best practice, park somewhere safe, leave no trace, avoid questionable activities, and if the cops want to see your van, invite them in and offer them fresh baked brownies. &nbsp;Make sure you are wearing your white frilly apron and are holding a ball of knitting in your hand. &nbsp;Works every time.<br><br><img style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; cursor: default; border-width: 0px;" src="/images/boards/smilies/rofl.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">&nbsp;&nbsp;<img style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; cursor: default; border-width: 0px;" src="/images/boards/smilies/angel.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><img style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; cursor: default; border-width: 0px;" src="/images/boards/smilies/angel.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><img style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; cursor: default; border-width: 0px;" src="/images/boards/smilies/angel.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">