Ignoring a knock

[Simran]

Ahhaa! The old apron trick again!<img class="emoticon bbc_img" src="/images/boards/smilies/idea.gif"><br>Darn I gotta get me one of those!!!<img class="emoticon bbc_img" src="/images/boards/smilies/rofl.gif"><br><br>Gus

 

[MK7]

Van-Tramp is correct, but if you want to take this hardline route with cops, make sure everything is in order, such as a working license plate light, signal on every lane change, etc.....and it's almost mandatory to have a camera ready to film the conversation with the cop to protect yourself otherwise it's his word against yours.....late at night, in the middle of nowhere, etc.&nbsp; His dashcam may help you, but I'm not sure how that works in terms of whether or not they can switch it off.<br><br>I wouldn't let them search and ransack my van or anything w/o a warrant, but I will answer general questions to get off of his radar if I'm planning to sleep in my van in his town, since this is illegal.&nbsp; Most cops just want to fish and see if you're drunk or on drugs.&nbsp; Many drifters living in vans have outstanding warrants I heard. <br><br><br><br>

 

[MK7]

<span id="post_message_1279134130">I'm not sure how valid some of this advice is.&nbsp;

<br><br>His advice is VERY valid, it just takes a very big sets of balls to go through with it. Make sure it's recorded. They taze and search you for asserting your 4th and 5th Amendment rights, and it's going to be a decent to BIG payday after a Civil Rights attorney gets done with them. <br><br><br></span>

 

[Van-Tramp]

I feel for the folks that are too afraid to use their constitutional rights in situations like this. They want you to be too afraid... it is your fear that gives them all their power to violate your rights. It amazes me how some people would rather allow a blatant violation of their human rights just to avoid a verbal confrontation with a civil servant. <br><br>I have politely told police officers all my life, "sorry, I will not be answering any questions" and never been arrested. In fact, not a single one has ever said anything hostile in response to me saying that. They *know* you have the right to remain silent (they are trained on that) and the majority will simply nod and say nothing more. Of course, *how* you say it makes a big difference. A smile and a "thank you for your service" goes a long way to keeping the mood calm.<br><br>Angeli, clearly your community has allowed the police force to violate their rights for way too long if they can get away with that. A right unused is a right forfeited. The 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments are all there to protect us, yet many simply ignore that protection. <strong>I bet you that people in many countries around the world would love to have the rights that we have, yet we just toss them to the gutter, sad.</strong>

 

[IGBT]

I agree with what Van has said, but I can understand what the police are up against.<br><br>99% of the time the person in the vehicle is doing no harm and should be left alone, but the 1% of the time you come across a dealer or some other miscreant there is a large risk of getting a hole in your gut (if you are the officer).<br><br>Not a job I would ever want to do.&nbsp; Walking up to a dark vehicle and peering in the window...seems like playing Russian roulette.

 

[MK7]

<span id="post_message_1279142152">I feel for the folks that are too afraid to use their constitutional rights in situations like this. They want you to be too afraid... it is your fear that gives them all their power to violate your rights. It amazes me how some people would rather allow a blatant violation of their human rights just to avoid a verbal confrontation with a civil servant.

<br><br>Have you ever been a Black man before? How about a Black man in a nice, White neighborhood and in a van?<br><br>Vandwelling is illegal. You seek to uphold the US Constitution, yet you habitually partake in the illegal activity of Vandwelling.<br><br>And the US Constitution is not really the cornerstone of human rights.<br></span>

 

[mockturtle]

Vandwelling is <em>illegal</em>?&nbsp; It may be illegal according to some city ordinances but it is definitely NOT illegal in general.<br><br>And the US Constitution is <em>still</em> the foundational law in this country.

 

[Van-Tramp]

MK7<br><br>I actually never "illegally" park. I always park in places in which I am allowed to park, and sleep in my van. I go out of my way to ensure I am not doing anything illegal.<br><br>

 

[James AKA Lynx]

<span class="status_offline" title="Offline">test </span>

 

[James AKA Lynx]

bug showing up again. I hope the new software comes out soon.<br><br>I copied a name from the Rt side and pasted it. Could not get rid of the straight down line text.<br><br>James AKA Lynx

 

[idn88]

Funny, but I just read that the supreme court ruling that just came out - you have to invoke your right to remain silent - go figure. &nbsp;Either check out this link or google must I invoke right to remain silent. &nbsp;So if you just say nothing I guess they can use your demeanor or the fact that you wouldn't answer against you somehow.<br><br><a href="http://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/scotus_no_right_to_remain_silence_unless_you_speak_up_partner/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/scotus_no_right_to_remain_silence_unless_you_speak_up_partner/<br><br></a>

 

[Zil]

Yes illegal. Municipal ordnance makes it a crime. You get woke up by police and seem hardball, rather than welcome for the protection, officer. My guess is a night at the station.

 

[IGBT]

Why not just park on BLM land?&nbsp; Nobody can bother you for 14 days...perfectly legal...don't have to worry about knocks.<br><br>If I am going to live in the city, I am going to get a job and live in an apartment, or share a room with someone.<br><br>We have millions of acres of free land where you can park with no fees.

 

[MK7]

Mockturtle: I meant that vandwelling is in general, illegal in most cities. And I never said anything about the US Constitution not being "<span id="post_message_1279143444">the foundational law in this country".</span>

 

[MK7]

Van-Tramp, if you're living in your van, in most cities, it's already illegal...thus you're partaking in an illegal act. Obviously you can park in any legal parking space you want, but you're still trying to hide the fact that you're living in your van and moving around to different spots to avoid detection.&nbsp; Why do you arrive late to your sleeping spots and leaving early for if it weren't illegal?&nbsp; Cops probably already know you're a vandweller, but you're not a trouble maker and more importantly, you're probably excellent at being stealthy....that the residents don't catch wind of....so they're not bothering the cops about you. Cops probably sympathizes with you anyway. They're usually only a-holes when residents keeps dialing 911.

 

[MK7]

IGBT, some people don't like living in the woods. I don't think we even have BLM land around here in the DC area.&nbsp; 5-10 hour drive to BLM land in a 10-15 MPG van @$3.75/gal. hurts. While vandwelling in the city due to a job, is a great way to save $500-1500 a month in rent. Like if you're in NYC, rent is going to be high in Manhattan (if you can even find a place). You can look for a place in the worse neighborhood in the Bronx for the cheapest rent, but that would suck living there...including riding the train 2x every day. Hiding in plain sight of a better neighborhood sounds better.

 

[IGBT]

Hmm, ok.&nbsp; I guess if the city is very attractive and yet you still want to live in a Van.<br><br>I can't quite wrap my head around that concept but...<br><br>I do understand that if you have to work a little bit to get food money, gas money, etc. then you may need to be close to a city.&nbsp; I think if I were in that position though, I would try to find a room to rent very cheap, work long enough to save up a year's worth of money for food and gas, then head to the hills.<br><br>Maybe I am just not a city person.

 

[Coffee Tim]

There is a lot of good truthful advice here.&nbsp; There also seems to be a wide spread practice of law enforcement ignoring our constitutional rights at will.&nbsp; The charge of Interfering with Governmental Proceedures is one of the favorite money making charges in use at this time.&nbsp; It is open to the interpitation of the officer at the time and covers just about everything you can think of.&nbsp; Among other things, if you talk too much, don't talk enough, refuse to awswer questions by excercising your constiutional rights, you are Interfering with Governmental Proceedures.&nbsp; It is nice to know we have these constitutional rights but enforcement of these rights often comes AFTER you have been arrested and your vehicle impounded. Look for other charges to be added as to increase the cost of you posting bail and paying the impound charges to get your vehicle out of the impound yard.&nbsp; That's just to get your freedom back--minus your money.&nbsp; Next, to enforce your constitutional rights you will probable need to hire an expensive attorney and pay court costs to file your claim of injustice.&nbsp; Don't count on an attorney being provided for you because now you are filing a civil suit.&nbsp; You can have all the justice you can afford to pay for these days.&nbsp; It doesn't all have to be bad and Im just saying to use common sense and be polite when dealing with law enforcement.&nbsp; The day of Officer Friendly is dissappearing fast.&nbsp; <br>Should any of you be curious enough to see many of the police and political abuse that is going on in this country I would suggest looking to news agencies that are not considered mainstream.

 

[James AKA Lynx]

There is no money to be made on BLM Land unless you can make money via internet. Few can do that. The need to be close to where one can make money will depend on where one can live.<br><br>James AKA Lynx

 

[Van-Tramp]

I do not sleep in my van within city limits unless I am on private property with permission (Private home, RV park, Moose Lodge, etc). I do not park on public streets or property in which I do not have permission to park/sleep. I either pay to camp, have permission to stay on private property, or I go outside of city limits to BLM or National Forest land. I do not condone anyone breaking the law or city ordinances. I do not stealth camp for the sake of doing something illegal... I stealth to keep the vagrants away from my van.<br><br>I feel for those that need to live in a city in a van because of their need to make some money... but <strong>your "need" does not give you the right to break the law</strong>. Either find a job more suitable to your lifestyle, or rent a room or RV space. You/We chose to live in a van, on the fringes of society... so get OUT there on the fringe, not smack in the middle of it expecting a free-ride! Don't make MY life more difficult (causing knocks on my door) because YOU want your life to be easier (illegally living next door to your employer so you can save a few bucks). Very uncool, and the exact reason why these laws are in place to begin with.<br><br>But this is a whole different topic... allow me to go back to the original topic of ignoring a knock at the door;<br><br>Even if you ARE breaking a law by sleeping in your van, you may still refuse to answer questions and even refuse to answer a knock in the middle of the night... and you would be wise to do both. The officer does not know you are sleeping in your van until you answer the door and answer his question, "oh sorry to wake you..."&nbsp; "Oh that's no problem officer"&nbsp;&nbsp; "So you admit to sleeping in your van, put your hands behind your head..."<br><br>Opening your door may allow him to see your sleeping bag, which may give him probable cause to arrest you for sleeping in your van.<br>Opening your mouth (remember, it is against the law to lie to an officer) and you will ADMIT to violating the law and he could arrest you.<br><strong>Ignoring the knock will NOT result in your arrest. It is that simple.</strong>