I should have invested in flower pots

[Donedirtcheap]

I keep seeing the candle and flower pot thing over and over. There is no advantage if you use one flower pot on top of the candle or ten thousand flower pots on top of the candle. The candle is putting out X number of BTU into the area of the van. It makes absolutely no difference if you put a flower pot over it or not. The only thing that matters is how many CANDLES you burn. More candles=more heat.

Remember this......if putting flower pots over the candle increases the heat output then all you would have to do is keep adding flower pots to create more heat.

SAVE YOUR MONEY. DO NOT BUY FLOWER POTS.

Flower pots dont make it safer either. They could actually make it less safe as they could be knocked over or you could forget that there is a flame and liquid wax (fuel) around it.

If you really want to burn candles and breath the by products of their combustion it would probably be best to fabricate a cage like device to set the candles in so nothing could come in contact with the flame. Just as they put protective grills over propane or electric heaters.
You need the same ventilation when burning candles as you do with any other fuel.
In my opinion its dangerous to be fooling around with candles period.

Be safe, we dont want to hear of any of us killed by a candle fire.

 

[Patrick46]

Another way to look at it is how much heat does a candle give off, vs. a bonfire!!

Well, of course the bonfire does...simply because it's a much bigger flame!


Yeah, these people are kidding themselves DDC

 

[wagoneer]

I see the wisdom in heating clay with fire as the clay will retain heat and offer a radiant quality. Still on the fence here not having tried it.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

There are some using candles or veggie oil this way with results satisfactory to them. Haven't tried it either, but as an emergency measure I sure would. Enough wicks burning should keep freezing at bay. As with any fuel, vent a little.

I've got enough to do in my cozy space that I don't have time to play with nor spend for suck a project when I have 2 main heat sources and 2 backups that do work.

I say, experiment if you want to and maybe it will suit your needs.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

As I said in my Interior Layout thread...

From I have read the key with the clay pots is that they radiate the heat out. With a regular candle the heat is going to rise straight to the roof. With the clay pot heater, the heat slowly radiates out from the pots meaning the heat stays lower for longer where the vandweller resides. I tried it a little bit last night but still dont have the proper materials to give it a serious go. What I did notice is that even the 4 tealights I used gave off quite a bit of heat by themselves. In a well insulated van I think 8 tealights would get it fairly toasty... but it would take a while for the heat to increase. Thats why I would use the Mr. Heater Buddy for 30 minutes or whatever to get the warmth in the van quickly and then rely on the candle power to maintain it. Apparently each candle gives off 80w of "power" so 4 would be 320w and 8 would be 640w. That seems pretty decent to me. Anyway, its all academic at this point since I am not living in a van at this time and until I am I wont be able to verify the truth.

I do agree that standard paraffin candles are not healthy over an extended period of time as they are derived from petroleum oil products. Last night I tried making a vegetable oil based candle and it worked really well. Very little if any soot/smoke and no odor that I could detect. Thats what I would use in conjunction with the clay pots. As to danger, you do have to be careful especially if animals, children or other people are around.... or if you are a bit clumsy. Perhaps placing the candles in a (new) empty paint can would help. Not sure how that would work with the clay pots but I am sure something could be figured out. Maybe very small paint cans per candle?

I should add that avoiding a propane source of heat, which adds moisture to the air, is important if you live in a humid climate such as mine.

Anyway, food for thought.

 

[Zil]

Yes. all heating is measured in BTU. Not much in a candle. the flower pots don't make it warmer, but may radiate the little heat produced. During the troubled times we would put flower pots over the gas jets on the kitchen stove. It did help keep the kids from freezing to death.

 

[MrNoodly]

I see the wisdom in heating clay with fire as the clay will retain heat and offer a radiant quality.

But the heat the pots radiate at any moment is less than the heat directly from the candle, because part of the heat is retained by the pots. All the pots can do is continue to radiate a little heat for a short time after the candle has burned out. Oh, and the pots trap some of the soot that would otherwise end up in the air and on the roof of your van.

Any extra "heat" one feels is the product of the brain believing the pots must work.

But I truly feel for those who are allergic to propane. That's the easy way to heat a van. My advice is that if you can't easily heat the van, heat yourself with really good thermal clothing and bedding. Your body is 98 degrees inside. Use THAT heat to warm yourself. Trap it in down or the latest high tech fabrics. And avoid getting too cold in the first place. Come in out of the cold sooner. Even a cold van is warmer than being outside in the wind chill.

 

[MrNoodly]

From I have read the key with the clay pots is that they radiate the heat out. With a regular candle the heat is going to rise straight to the roof. With the clay pot heater, the heat slowly radiates out from the pots meaning the heat stays lower for longer where the vandweller resides.

All heat rises. The heat radiating from clay pots is going to rise too.

Any heat generated in a van is also going to be fighting the cooling effect of lower temperature air both in the van and surrounding it outside. Since the heat coming off the pots is less intense that that coming off the flame, it will lose the battle against cold air quicker.

But, tell you what, try it and see if it keeps you warmer than just a candle.

 

[Patrick46]

So...you wanna stay warm in your van durring the winter months???

1 word.....








FLORIDA!

 

[Canine]

Here is a link that has some killer information:

http://www.candles.org/

Two things I got most from that site is that candles burn amazingly clean when used properly and that carbon, water, and carbon dioxide are given off. I imagine carbon monoxide is given off as well, but in small quantities. If one were to get a large enough dose to succumb to carbon monoxide poisoning, the levels of carbon dioxide and the lack of oxygen from an appropriately burning candle would kill you way before the carbon monoxide would. But then again, if the oxygen levels were dropping, the carbon monoxide level would increase because the candle would not be burning properly. You're dead either way.

If you are using enough candles to comfortably heat an unventilated space, you are creating enough by-products to kill you. Use ventilation just like any other heat source that burns fuel.

In regard to heat, there are three ways to transmit heat: conduction, convection, and radiant.

Conduction isn't applicable as no one is going to purposefully be touching the flame directly or dripping the wax on themselves to obtain heat.

Convection is getting warm from heated air which circulates and tends to rise. The candle heats the air. The heated air then travels to us and we get warm.

Radiant heat goes in a straight line. It does not rise. Heat ONLY occurs when the radiant, potential energy touches an object and ONLY then does heat occur. A clay pot would reduce radiant energy and increase convective energy, but the amount of heat would remain the same.

One advantage I see of a clay pot would be to prevent drafts from blowing on the flame reducing the efficiency of the burn. The flame needs to be undisturbed to be as efficient and clean as possible. Catching the soot would help, but there is little soot to begin with and the soot isn't terribly harmful. The only other advantage I could see is being able to put ones hands directly on the heated clay pot to use conductive energy to heat ones hands.

The amount of heat simply does not change. Candles already burn efficiently and a clay pot does not increase efficiency. If you find a way to increase the amount of heat from a properly burning candle by using a clay pot, you will receive a Nobel Prize.

 

[dragonflyinthesky]

quote: Any extra "heat" one feels is the product of the brain believing the pots must work.

I don't care if it is all in my head, it makes my camper warmer. I use WildE's veggie oil and jute method with the pots instead of candles because I don't have Adrian to keep me warm and make me a believer. Should this be moved to the flirting thread?

Dragonfly

 

[Donedirtcheap]

quote: Any extra "heat" one feels is the product of the brain believing the pots must work.

I don't care if it is all in my head, it makes my camper warmer. I use WildE's veggie oil and jute method with the pots instead of candles because I don't have Adrian to keep me warm and make me a believer. Should this be moved to the flirting thread?

Dragonfly

No, maybe to the scifi thread.

 

[signman]

IMO...flirting is appropriate in all adult threads...carry on... *smile*...

I keep telling people...98.6 degrees is a comfy heater!!!

Its off topic but not really...fess up now kids...who else is a human heat seeker? You might call yourself a hug addict...I prefer cuddle ****!


ummm...this is hippiechk using signman's computer...now that could have been even funnier had I not said this...but...FOVL

 

[wagoneer]

aw shucks (cheeks getting a little pink) hold that thought dragonfly

 

[Unchained]

Aaaaannnnnd, back on topic

For anyone using candles, Walmart sells 3 wick scented candles in glass jars for $3.00 (get the 11.5 oz for $3.00, not the 10 oz for $2.97). A friend and I picked some up of each kind the other night and found that the 11.5 oz will burn for nearly 36 hours with all 3 wicks lit. The 10 oz are another brand and nowhere near as good.
On scent, the hazelnut is wonderful but will make ya crave cookies all night long!

I use my Little Buddy to heat my trailer to a toasty 70, then the candles until bedtime. 3 wick candles give off a good bit of heat, and slow the temperature drop considerably once the heater is off.
I use the candles sans flower pots.

 

[Ken in Anaheim]

I'm sure many know this but you can also just stick a wick in a can of Crisco and it will burn for many, many hours.
KinA

 

[Mackerous]

After my Mr. Buddy was stolen, I made a makeshift version of this by flipping my cast iron pots over on my camp stove. It was a bit smokey as the oil burned off, but it make it down-right hot in there.

 

[MK7]

Having a bunch of candles burning is dangerous as hell. And candles sold in glass jars are known to explode, sending wax all over that can also ignite. Not all of them, but some...which is enough. Happened to my mother once, so she threw them all away. Wax all over to clean up. Sharon Osbourne said the wax splattered caught on fire and burned Ozzy Osbourne's hair while he was trying to put out the fire.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Pffft, Ozzy prolly got off on flaming hair

 

[AimlessWanderLust]

I feel compelled to put my two cents in, because some comments are hinting at a misunderstanding of physics/thermodynamics. Not trying to attack anybody, but since the can of worms was opened, here goes:

I keep seeing the candle and flower pot thing over and over. There is no advantage if you use one flower pot on top of the candle or ten thousand flower pots on top of the candle. The candle is putting out X number of BTU into the area of the van. It makes absolutely no difference if you put a flower pot over it or not. The only thing that matters is how many CANDLES you burn. More candles=more heat.

Remember this......if putting flower pots over the candle increases the heat output then all you would have to do is keep adding flower pots to create more heat.

The point of the flower pots is not to increase the heat, but to convert the heat to another form (convection to radiant). Convection heat is just hot air, which rises, and doesn't heat a space as efficiently. Radiant heat means that objects themselves will get warm, instead of the air.

But the heat the pots radiate at any moment is less than the heat directly from the candle, because part of the heat is retained by the pots.

Only until the pot gets to it's thermal threshold, at that point, it gives off exactly as much radiant heat as it is receiving convection heat from the candle (Some of the convection heat from the candle might be escaping around the edges of the pot, so there is that loss, but that heats the space via convection anyway).

Any extra "heat" one feels is the product of the brain believing the pots must work.

I disagree. Try this experiment: Stand in front of a forced air propane heater, say 20,000 BTU or more. You can feel the hot air, but it isn't uncomfortably hot. Then stand in front of a 3,000 BTU catalytic radiant propane heater (like a Wave3). You will get uncomfortably hot after only a short while in front of the wave because the heat is applied directly to your skin and very concentrated. This is pretty much what the pot is supposed to do, convert (convection to radiant) and concentrate the heat (heating a pot instead of heating the 100cubic feet of air space).

All heat rises. The heat radiating from clay pots is going to rise too.

Any heat generated in a van is also going to be fighting the cooling effect of lower temperature air both in the van and surrounding it outside. Since the heat coming off the pots is less intense that that coming off the flame, it will lose the battle against cold air quicker.

No, only hot AIR rises. Radiant heat has a trajectory unaffected by the atmosphere. How do you think we get heat from the Sun? The sun radiates heat. Does that heat only travel up? What direction is UP in space!?

Again, the flame will only heat AIR via convection (okay, so there really is a tiny amount of radiation from the flame too, but that's insignificant), the pot heats the objects around it via radiation...

In regard to heat, there are three ways to transmit heat: conduction, convection, and radiant.

Conduction isn't applicable as no one is going to purposefully be touching the flame directly or dripping the wax on themselves to obtain heat.

Convection is getting warm from heated air which circulates and tends to rise. The candle heats the air. The heated air then travels to us and we get warm.

Radiant heat goes in a straight line. It does not rise. Heat ONLY occurs when the radiant, potential energy touches an object and ONLY then does heat occur. A clay pot would reduce radiant energy and increase convective energy, but the amount of heat would remain the same.

Yes yes yes, you completely get it!

One advantage I see of a clay pot would be to prevent drafts from blowing on the flame reducing the efficiency of the burn. The flame needs to be undisturbed to be as efficient and clean as possible. Catching the soot would help, but there is little soot to begin with and the soot isn't terribly harmful. The only other advantage I could see is being able to put ones hands directly on the heated clay pot to use conductive energy to heat ones hands.

I suppose you're right, it also would have the advantage of tolerable conductive heat, however, I've seen those pots get up to 120 degrees F, too hot for me to touch!