Hurray for insulation

[MrNoodly]

I'm currently camped near Mammoth Lakes, CA, at 6,942 feet (according to my handy smartphone altimeter app). The other night it got down into the upper 30s. There's a woman camping next to me in her car. She was bundled up in two sleeping bags, wearing fleece and a knit cap, and still she was cold. Meanwhile, in my insulated van, I had been sleeping in shorts and a t-shirt, with my down blanket mostly over just my feet and legs. I had a window open about three inches so it didn't get stuffy.

So, in case any of you were wondering, insulation does make a difference. So does insulating yourself with a good blanket or sleeping bag.

 

[Willy]

Years ago, I was at a buddy's place in Sprinerville AZ for a few weeks during the winter. Temps were well bellow freezing with a fierce wind howling away. Had an F-250 4x4 with a well insulated camperette on the back. Only heat I had, besides body/dog warmth, was from a small kerosene lantern. Let me tell ya, even set on lo, that little lantern kept my unit toasty warm. Just goes to show just how effective good insulatio can be. ..Willy.

 

[PYSCHOWard]

one should always be prepared for all types of weather, when travelling.

 

[jeanontheroad]

Trouble with our moho is the windows. Huge windshield. Alcove virtually all glass. Big rear window. DH got a roll of that aluminized foam material they use for windshield screens for $6.00 and cut it to fit all the major glass areas. Even with only that quarter inch of insulation, it makes a big difference.

Now, we have to figure out why it gets so cold in the door well.

 

[SoulRaven]

I'm currently camped near Mammoth Lakes, CA, at 6,942 feet (according to my handy smartphone altimeter app). The other night it got down into the upper 30s. There's a woman camping next to me in her car. She was bundled up in two sleeping bags, wearing fleece and a knit cap, and still she was cold. Meanwhile, in my insulated van, I had been sleeping in shorts and a t-shirt, with my down blanket mostly over just my feet and legs. I had a window open about three inches so it didn't get stuffy.

So, in case any of you were wondering, insulation does make a difference. So does insulating yourself with a good blanket or sleeping bag.

Insulation is only going to slightly prolong the inevitable. Reliable heating/cooling is whats going to really save your butt.

I will agree with insulating yourself though, because your body will produce some heat, but not enough to keep a van warm.

 

[Seeker]

I see why insulation will help keep heated air in a van longer.

I am trying to understand why it holds the summer heat in longer after the windows are open and hot air is released.
A SEEKER

 

[MrNoodly]

To maximize interior space you can insulate on the outside, like this:

 

[LeeRevell]

I'd like to weigh that truck before and after a good soaking rain!

 

[SoulRaven]

I see why insulation will help keep heated air in a van longer.

I am trying to understand why it holds the summer heat in longer after the windows are open and hot air is released.
A SEEKER

The insulation traps and holds both the heat and the cold, making it take much longer to heat or cool the insulated space.

When I had an insulated van, I would have to run my a/c for an hour or more to get it comfortable, with my current stock van, I can get it comfortable in about 20 minutes. Same was true for cold winter days.

I think insulation works against you far more than it works for you in a vehicle, because you simply don't have the room to have enough insulation to make it truly effective. House insulation is a totally different story.

If you just make sure your van is wind & rain proof, heating and cooling it is a very simple matter. Insulation isn't going to keep you comfortable 24/7 without a heater and/or a/c anyway, so why bother. Mother Nature <u><b>ALWAYS</b></u> trumps insulation, only proper heating and cooling equipment can trump Mother Nature.

I have lived in tents in extreme conditions, they are uninsulated, yet easy to heat or cool. If you treat your van as a tent, everything suddenly comes into clear and simple prospective. Too many people over complicate simple matters. Total comfort is MY goal, and insulation is not going to help accomplish that, my heat & a/c is what accomplishes that.

If you're in an area with trees or buildings, try to park in the shade. If not, a cheap set of roof bars with a tarp or shade cloth clamped to it can keep your roof in the shade. You could make it out of a more solid material for something permanent too.

 

[akrvbob]

In my opinion, insulation is the best investment you can make when converting your van, because most of us live in an area where there is more cold than heat. Then you do need a source of heat, but the insulation will quickly pay for itself in savings in fuel.

The only time that you shouldn't have insulation (in My Humble Opinion) is if you live very far south and cold stops being an issue and heat is a big issue.
Bob

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I see why insulation will help keep heated air in a van longer.

I am trying to understand why it holds the summer heat in longer after the windows are open and hot air is released.
A SEEKER

Thermal mass.

Even though you've exchanged your heated air for cooler outside air, every scrap of material inside your insulated shell is still hot.

Do a little research on how solar heating works. It all depends on large amounts of thermal mass ( concrete, water, etc.) which is heated by the sun, and then gives off heat when the sun goes down.

Regards
John

 

[Seeker]

Solar heating I know. Once Lived in an old 2 story brick house and the West sun heated the brick outside my bedroom and it stayed hot for hours. I did not know the insulation would hold heat like that. I think I will forgo insulation this year as I don't plan on staying to long in severe cold that a heater will not be able to take care of anyway.
Thanks for the info.
A SEEKER

 

[accrete]

I agree on the insulation concepts of thermal mass and since my wife and i camp in the Pacific Northwest where cold is the issue (we've only had a handful of days in the mid 80's where we made camp) we went ahead and built the van accordingly. That meant good venting available rain/shine, and soft walls built up from multiple layers of non-moisture-absorbent insulators such as Reflectix/Bubble-wrap/Mylar. Over that we placed marine grade fabric hull liner. The differential is about 10 to 15 degrees warmer inside at night than outside, or interestingly, a measured 5 to 10 degrees cooler during the day. I don't really know the why or how but it makes for a comfortable place to bed down at night.

BUT, as stated, we went into this knowing we'd be camping in the PNW. If it had been in hot dry areas i would have done the research for those areas and gone forward accordingly.

One night in June up at the caldera lakes near Bend Oregon we went to bed noting the clouds rolling in. We woke up to about 4" of snow on the ground. We slept through the night with only our fleece blanket on top of us with windows cracked and MaxxFan open. Hadn't a clue it snowed until i opened the door to get out the next morning.

Thom

 

[LeeRevell]

Insulation works both ways. Once your winter home-on-wheels is heated, it'll take more time to lose that heat to the outside cold.
Same in the summer. After the AC cools the van's interior and insulation, it'll take longer to transfer the outside heat back in.
It's all about increasing the time required for the transfer of heat. An uninsulated van will get hot or cold a lot quicker.

 

[MrNoodly]

...and soft walls built up from multiple layers of non-moisture-absorbent insulators such as Reflectix/Bubble-wrap/Mylar...

You don't have a problem with moisture or condensation between the layers of insulation?

---

One night in June up at the caldera lakes near Bend Oregon we went to bed noting the clouds rolling in. We woke up to about 4" of snow on the ground. We slept through the night with only our fleece blanket on top of us with windows cracked and MaxxFan open. Hadn't a clue it snowed until i opened the door to get out the next morning.

Thom

Snow insulates, too. It blocks wind that speeds heat loss. That's why igloos work.

 

[riffraff]

Newbie here. I am just starting to convert my cargo van to dwell in for the next 4-5 months most likely. Looking at the avg. temperatures I am going to have to deal with in the No. California area: http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USCA0987

Was thinking something like this: http://erowe3.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/my-van-start-to-finish-6310/ (same model van as what I have!)

Fortunately the climate is very nice here. I was going to start on insulation this weekend. It's still pretty warm out now and will be for the next month at least. I was under the impression that the insulation would be useful vs. the heat as well.

 

[MrNoodly]

I was under the impression that the insulation would be useful vs. the heat as well.

Having spent some hot weather in my van, I found the shade provided by being in the van (rather than out in the sun) is the single thing that helps the most. A well insulated roof helps keep heat from passing into the interior. Shade over the roof (from solar panels, plywood, tarps, reflective material, trees or whatever) helps even more. Keeping sunlight from passing through windows is also important. Air circulation is important, too. It can make it feel much cooler. Fans (in a roof vent or otherwise) or a natural breeze help a lot.

 

[riffraff]

Thanks MrNoodly. I did get the 4 windows tinted (2 back and 2 side-cargo doors) so hoping that will help some. I will look into what I need to insulate the roof from the inside (probably will be the same materials as what I'll use for the walls). Fan-Tastic fan wont be here until about 5-6 days after I move out, thinking those are going to be pretty miserable days.

Like the blog post I listed I'll probably do something similar for the floor (plywood / foam wall / plywood) although I'm tempted to just get a rubber mat and be done with it. Will roll up to Lowe's on Sunday and get to work =)

 

[MrNoodly]

Thanks MrNoodly. I did get the 4 windows tinted (2 back and 2 side-cargo doors) so hoping that will help some.

The most common thing among vandwellers is to cut Reflectix pieces so they press fit into windows. HOWEVER, it's best to somehow fasten Reflectix OUTSIDE the windshield. Otherwise, heat can build up between the glass and the Reflectix, causing the windshield to crack. It happened to me. Now I try to park with the windshield facing north.

 

[riffraff]

The most common thing among vandwellers is to cut Reflectix pieces so they press fit into windows. HOWEVER, it's best to somehow fasten Reflectix OUTSIDE the windshield.

Yes this was one of the first methods I've seen used. Reflectix stapled to cardboard in the shape of the windows to kind-of "snap" in.

Otherwise, heat can build up between the glass and the Reflectix, causing the windshield to crack. It happened to me. Now I try to park with the windshield facing north.

That sounds pretty painful. I probably won't be able to do this since I'm parking in the city and need stealth but good idea for boondocking for sure.