How to Charge Lithium Battery

Van Living Forum

Help Support Van Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

DanDweller

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 2, 2018
Messages
119
Reaction score
0
Dear Experts,
To convert my Ford Transit Connect for vandwelling, I am starting by purchasing the Renogy lithium iron phosphate 100ah battery and the only appliance I will be using regularly: the Maxxair vent-fan (max draw, 5 amps, if I understand correctly).  Other than that, the only other regular usage will be some low wattage LED lights.  

(the rest of my question will be in a reply since I can't ask the whole question without getting the 404 error, for some reason.
 
Every now and then I might charge my laptop (which I hardly ever use--in fact, I'm using it right now for the first time in ages because for some reason this forum gives me a "404 Fancy meeting you here" error message every time I try to post from my smart phone). I also have a battery-powered shaver that I would be charging every now and then, but that shouldn't require a very large inverter at all. But that's it. The main draw will be the vent-fan.
 
That isn't much draw, but I know from experience in my old van that there will be plenty of times when I will travel in climates which result in me wanting to run the vent-fan day and night, 24/7, and in situations where I might be stopped for days and days, perhaps in the shade where it is still hot enough to want to run the fan but the shade will block the solar panels I plan on getting. I want to be prepared for the worst, being able to charge the battery by three options:
1) 300 watts of solar panel (because 400 watts worth won't fit on my roof) with MPPT controller,
2) by alternator (using Renogy's 20amp DC to DC charger), and
3) with shore power, using an AC to DC smart charger.

At the moment what I am most confused about regards the third option--shore power and what charger to get. A technician at Renogy told me they do not sell an actual charger and suggested I get the Noco Genius 7200, 15,000 or 26,000. Seeing the small size of the Noco Genius 7200, I was all excited to finally have a definite idea of what components to get and that it wouldn't take up much space, but then while reading the reviews of the Noco Genius, I noticed that someone said you should not be discharging your battery (aka living in your van, in this case) while charging it. Hmmm.... Then what have full-timers been doing all this time? So I chatted with Noco's tech support and he also backed up what that reviewer said, telling me that since it is a smart charger, it might not be putting out 5amps at any given time and therefore might not keep up with my vent-fan's 5amp draw if I'm running my fan on maximum hour after hour (plus the small draw from the LEDs). On the other hand, he said that a non-smart charger which just gives it a steady charge wouldn't be good for the battery. He said if I absolutely must use the battery while being charged maybe I could put the Noco unit in 5amp continuous DC supply mode, but didn't have much explanation beyond that, and left me thinking that it would be bad to do that regularly to my expensive litium battery. All this has me wondering how people live in their RV vans while keeping their battery on a charger. So I called Renogy tech guy back, but since he is not an RV guy he didn't have much to say. He defaulted to mentioning an inverter-charger--an option which I see no point in getting, if I understand correctly, and which doesn't solve the dilemma. I have a little 500 watt pure sine wave inverter I can hook up if I need it for occasionally charging my shaver, and can get a DC charger for my laptop, I believe. Also, all the inverter-chargers I saw online were huge in watts and in the space they would take up in my tiny van. Besides, my 12v Maxxair doesn't use an inverter, so his recommendation made no sense.

I am trying to understand: What is the recommended way (when the sun is not shining to charge my battery through the solar panels) to keep my battery charged via shore power while I am also drawing current from that battery (living in the van)? Would I be fine with the Noco Genius in 5amp continuous supply mode? In regular smart charge mode? Or is there something I'm missing here? Is there a better charger that senses the load on the battery and compensates?

Regarding the option to charge from the alternator, I also can't seem to get a straight answer. The Renogy tech guesses that my alternator would be fine with their 20amp DC to DC charger, and that the worst that would happen is my battery doesn't fully charge, not that the alternator fries. I understand it would take about 5 hours at highway speed to charge a 100ah battery with a 20amp charger this way. Would it in fact strain the alternator? Would it put a dent in fuel economy? Is there really no point in trying to bring the alternator into the equation if I can fit 300 watts worth of solar panels on my roof? Would 300 watts of panels be enough to keep up with 24/7 usage of the Maxxair fan on max?

Thanks for helping me understand. I am groping in the dark here. It will be nice when I can finally identify exactly what components I'll need so I can get started.
 
@DanDweller,

I see your dilemma, and it's solvable, not to worry. Let me digest all of this and compose my reply so I can hit all of the bases. The first thing you need to know is your total Watt-hour load for a whole day? That means everything you might use and for how many hours. Be as accurate as you can. The first task is to know exactly how long you can use your batteries without a recharge. Follow? From that, we'll determine your charging routine. There are several ways one can do this. Also, so far, I see nothing your using that requires a pure sinewave inverter. You always size your battery needs to last at the very least three days. You have way, way more battery than you need in my opinion, and for that reason, you should be able to run on them awhile without recharging, but we'll see. How many watts does that vent fan use per hour? I have a massive HP 8470 Moblie Workstation that uses a 200 Watt adapter, but on my cheap inverter in my Jeep, it pulls about 35 to 40 Watts surfing the internet.
 
Order this tool if you don't already have on. Plug all of your devices running AC via power strip through this puppy and it tells you everything you need to know for less than$25 bucks. It even does total KWA.

https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Ele...att+electricity+monitor&qid=1570770800&sr=8-6

81iNu%2BVOrXL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
 
Cajunwolf said:
@DanDweller,

I see your dilemma, and it's solvable, not to worry. Let me digest all of this and compose my reply so I can hit all of the bases. The first thing you need to know is your total Watt-hour load for a whole day? That means everything you might use and for how many hours. Be as accurate as you can. The first task is to know exactly how long you can use your batteries without a recharge. Follow? From that, we'll determine your charging routine. There are several ways one can do this. Also, so far, I see nothing your using that requires a pure sinewave inverter. You always size your battery needs to last at the very least three days. You have way, way more battery than you need in my opinion, and for that reason, you should be able to run on them awhile without recharging, but we'll see. How many watts does that vent fan use per hour? I have a massive HP 8470 Moblie Workstation that uses a 200 Watt adapter, but on my cheap inverter in my Jeep, it pulls about 35 to 40 Watts surfing the internet.


Thanks for the reply.  The Maxxair vent-fan (which I have purchased but not installed), as I understand it, draw 5amps at maximum speed.  So 5*12×=60 watts. And I wish to plan for worst case scenario, so imagine it is on 24/7. As for the LED lights, which I have not yet purchased, I don't know how much they would draw, but a website I just glanced at said that one of them would draw .12 amps.  Let's imagine I'll have two of them, so .24  amps.  .24*12=2.88 watts. And imagine I'm going to have them on for four hours out of the day.   As for the inverter, I already had a 500w pure sine wave inverter (Wagan Tech) from a prior application.  The only thing I would need any inverter for at all is to recharge my battery powered shaver.  I recharge the shaver about once a week and it takes an hour and draws .15 amps. .15*12=1.8 The Macbook Pro, which I hardly ever use, can be charged with a DC charger, if I understand correctly, and the charger I just glanced at online says it draws 110 watts. But I hardly ever use the Macbook. I am concerned about a situation in which I am using vent-fan 24/7 and with lights on for, say, four hours on the same day. The shaver and Macbook are kind of beside the point as they are both very infrequent. It is good to hear that the battery I am getting is oversized. That's what I'm hoping for. I am looking to know what charger to get and how to be charging the battery while also using it.
 
Sweet! A thank you tx2surgis for this jewel! This is why a forum is such a great community tool allowing for collaborative projects such as this that helps everyone who takes the time to contribute, read, and follow.

@DanDweller
I've got to go with tx2surgis on this one. Does it fit your application?
 
Check out the post by one of our members, LoupGarou, on a thread I started showcasing a useful dynamic solar selection site. This might help you a lot. The link (he and I both subscribe to the site) he gives has a video on the dangers of using your vehicle's alternator to charge house batteries with solutions.

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=38414
 
@DanDweller
I've got to go with tx2surgis on this one. Does it fit your application?

I believe so.  Will look more closely when I get home from work.
 
Cajunwolf said:
Check out the post by one of our members, LoupGarou, on a thread I started showcasing a useful dynamic solar selection site. This might help you a lot. The link (he and I both subscribe to the site) he gives has a video on the dangers of using your vehicle's alternator to charge house batteries with solutions.

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=38414
 Thank you!  I'll have a look.
 
@DanDweller
I posted something that will be very interesting to you, but there is another thread? I'll check. Be right back.
 
Okay ... here we go: (tx2surgis; you might find this interesting too.)

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=38414

The above link goes to a thread by me on this site, it's quite interesting too, and from there you can link to the information provided by one of our members, LoupGarou. Now once your on that link/channel's video, which is a review of an excellent solution for this problem by Renogy, there are four excellent links on the dangers of charging LiFePO4 batteries with your vehicle's alternator. Anyone who is needing to charge house batteries from a vehicle should watch to keep from damaging their batteries.
 
Yes, I have previously discussed lithium compatible B2B chargers....and most lithium compatible solar controllers are fully compatible with loads when the lithium batteries are being charged by the sun. 

The issue I was addressing was: How to charge lithium batteries while a load is on them, and while on shore power. 

There is hardware that is specifically designed to do that. That is the link I provided.
 
Oh yeah, I know, and an excellent suggestion it was. I just thought the links might interest you, and give you something to pass on to others if they might find it useful too. Just trying to be helpful.
 
And you were....my apologies if I sounded terse...

Now and then, misunderstandings happen. 

Just trying to cover my bases!

:cool:
 
tx2sturgis said:
Forget all the other stuff, you are overthinking this.

Simple answer: Buy and install a lithium compatible converter/charger.

https://www.progressivedyn.com/specialty/pd9100l-series-lithium-converters/

The 30 amp unit will work fine for your situation.

Cajunwolf said:
Sweet! A thank you tx2surgis for this jewel! This is why a forum is such a great community tool allowing for collaborative projects such as this that helps everyone who takes the time to contribute, read, and follow.

@DanDweller
I've got to go with tx2surgis on this one. Does it fit your application?

DanDweller said:
Thank you, that's what I was looking for.
I have that charger/converter. It also acts as a dc power supply when the battery(s) is fully charged. Here's a link to an authorized Progressive Dynamics dealer where I bought mine. They're called Leisure Time and are one of two authorized dealers listed on the Progressive Dynamics site. The price is very good at 145.  https://www.ltdrvparts.com/PROGRESS...THIUM-CONVERTER-CHARGER-PD9130LV-PD9130LV.htm

Also, I want to add that it pulls 500 watts and my Sportsman 1000i generator runs it in economy mode
 
Top