How to carry propane safely?

[RVTravel]

On the white compact car video on youtube, one comment said it was not propane but the spare tire, "it was actually his spare tire rapidly decompressing. Look up video of tire blowout or split rim tire decompression, it's pretty nasty and has killed people."

 

[GotSmart]

I'm a bit too risk-averse for that sort of setup myself. Maybe if it were just me in the van, I certainly did stuff like this all the time back in the day, but then. . .

I'm thinking maybe a quality roof rack, strong welded mesh cargo box, recesses to fit two 10-gal bottles ratchet-strapped in towards the back to lower their 12" profile, both visually and wrt wind resistance. Of course other stuff will be packed in around them, may not need any other cover.

And when I'm not van-living all goes back to stock.

Since it seems I won't be fixing propane underneath, rather than running hoses from a Propex HS2211 space heater on the roof into the van, I'll save my pennies for an Espar or Webasto one, mounted underneath feeding off the main petrol tank, same as the van's engine.

Should be able to figure how to get hot water at the same time - but that's for another thread.

Petrol tank.  bog standard, vapor tap.

You are not in the US, .  That explains the unfamiliar terms. You have different laws to follow then.  In the US, we are restricted to size, weight, and manufacturing regulations governing the transportation of propane.  No more than 90 lbs or 21 gallons in an enclosed vehicle.

 

[LeeRevell]

I'm a bit too risk-averse for that sort of setup myself. Maybe if it were just me in the van, I certainly did stuff like this all the time back in the day, but then. . .

I'm thinking maybe a quality roof rack, strong welded mesh cargo box, recesses to fit two 10-gal bottles ratchet-strapped in towards the back to lower their 12" profile, both visually and wrt wind resistance. Of course other stuff will be packed in around them, may not need any other cover.

And when I'm not van-living all goes back to stock.

Since it seems I won't be fixing propane underneath, rather than running hoses from a Propex HS2211 space heater on the roof into the van, I'll save my pennies for an Espar or Webasto one, mounted underneath feeding off the main petrol tank, same as the van's engine.

Should be able to figure how to get hot water at the same time - but that's for another thread.

So, you are talking two 40lb. Tanks atop the roof..... That is a LOT of weight up high. Two problems - moving the van's center of gravity higher, and the job of manhandling those heavy tanks. And..... propane tanks mount vertically, the 40lbers are tall.
If you plan to use LP tanks like a forklift uses, they are not the type you need, jerry-rigged modifications included.
You claim being safety conscious, but seem to want to do unsafe mods. This could bite you on any kind of vehicle inspection.
Please, be safe and do it right.

 

[John61CT]

Petrol tank.  bog standard, vapor tap.

You are not in the US, .  That explains the unfamiliar terms. You have different laws to follow then.  In the US, we are restricted to size, weight, and manufacturing regulations governing the transportation of propane.  No more than 90 lbs or 21 gallons in an enclosed vehicle.

Actually I am. Spent most of my life overseas, but am currently living in the US. It is quite possible I am from another planet though, it does feel like that sometimes more and more .

Also I think I've been pretty clear on this, my intention is to transport ** 0 ** lbs or gallons inside our enclosed vehicle.

If any of my mistakes are substantive rather than just language syntax, I would appreciate your corrections.

 

[John61CT]

You claim being safety conscious, but seem to want to do unsafe mods. This could bite you on any kind of vehicle inspection.
Please, be safe and do it right.

I do plan to be as safe as possible.

There are 40+ DOT bottles & fittings designed for horizontal transport, storage and vapor use, they just need filling from vertical. Some of the ones designed for "outdoor equipment" have an OPD and a special anti-sloshing baffling internally, and the ​vapor service valve also blocks liquid outflow.

Aluminum TARE around 27# means 61# full, so manageable for me.

Point taken on raising the center of gravity, but I am a very cautious driver to start with, more so when loaded.

There are also hitch-based roof-rack supports, they would help bring the COG lower, keep me from pushing rated weight limits on the roof support structures, and also allow for bikes, kayak and/or more cargo box storage, to help keep the sleep space open.

 

[John61CT]

Also check this out, intended for ASME fuel

http://worthingtonindustries.com/ge...a-6bd7898f9617/LPG-ASME-Toroidal.pdf?ext=.pdf

First solution I've seen for decent capacity under-carriage. Not designed off the shelf for vapor service nor refilling smaller DOTs, but safest of all options I think wrt transport safety.

Bit spendy, but no hitch / roof rack setup required, and of course lower housing costs pay back pretty quickly.

 

[LeeRevell]

One of the best quotes I have ever heard, was my buddy saying, "I won't have an accident, I'm a careful driver!" Hehe....... The "other driver" won't be.

"#" ? We use "lb." for expressing pound weight here. I tend to skip over "#" as it is undefined. I tend to be quite literal in reading, rarely translating unfamiliar terms. A legacy from 35 years working in Electronics and Computer Programming. I think linearly. I am a batch-processing guy living in an object-oriented world.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

if you have the money why don't you just get a standard run of the mill tank installed under the vehicle. I have one on my Dodge Caravan poptop conversion it works fine does not get in the way and is easy to fill at stations. In my Kurbmaster I use two small 5 # tanks , if you are super keen on putting them on your roof they weigh less I think 13lbs full, would be easier to haul up and down and would take up less space, if I am only cooking one will last a few months. The only issue I see, with having it on the roof is turning it on and off, I like to turn propane off at the tank when not in use also plumbing it.

 

[John61CT]

Space heating takes a lot more, very cold boondocking maybe 8-10 pounds a day when it's too nasty for snowshoeing or skiing.

I want to minimize trips back into town, at most once a week, so ideally want in the neighborhood of at least 100# given cooking & hot water usage. Might even run a little genset rather than trying solar for the fans & electronics.

So yes, undercarriage would be best, and that toroidal tank above would be a good start, better value for capacity, the fixed ASME tanks I've seen are usually too small.

Plus getting the systems plumbed for vapor use and refilling smaller bottles out in the field seems bit of a challenge.

Do you have vapor draw fittings in your setup, e.g.can you run a pipe to a barbie outside, or run a space heater when parked for days at a time? Or do you also carry/use a 20# inside the passenger space?

 

[John61CT]

One of the best quotes I have ever heard, was my buddy saying, "I won't have an accident, I'm a careful driver!" Hehe....... The "other driver" won't be.

I was specifically responding to your (very perspicacious) comment on a higher COG, which is mainly an issue wrt the nut behind the wheel, not the other madmen on the road.

"#" ?

Standard syntax in the propane domain, most people don't know "C#" is a language but in an IT context discussion it shouldn't need dumbing down.

 

[John61CT]

if you have the money why don't you just get a standard run of the mill tank installed under the vehicle. I have one on my Dodge Caravan poptop conversion it works fine does not get in the way and is easy to fill at stations.

How large is that one?

 

[John61CT]

Anyone seen setups where the under tanks aren't right on the side, more in the middle?

Standard to run the level guage sensor to a remote on the dash, but what about a "remote panel" with the filler port and fixed-level guage (fill bleed/spitter valve) mounted where it's easy to fill up rather than having to crawl under?

 

[LeeRevell]

I was specifically responding to your (very perspicacious) comment on a higher COG, which is mainly an issue wrt the nut behind the wheel, not the other madmen on the road.

Standard syntax in the propane domain, most people don't know "C#" is a language but in an IT context discussion it shouldn't need dumbing down.

So........ right.......

 

[flying kurbmaster]

How large is that one?

I am not sure in lbs but it is at least 40 by the looks of it maybe more, I use the propane on this unit very little and hardly ever used the heater other then testing it, three summers back I used it daily for three months filled the tank and it took less then 10.00 worth of propane, and I haven't filled it since using it occasionally for a cup a tea and the odd road trip, it is plumbed to the thermostatically controlled vented heater with a shut off valve by the heater and directly  into the stove, no BBQ outlet, in the my other rig which I use regularly, the tanks are accessible from the inside in a vented compartment, one tank is hooked up to the vented heater the other to the stove, the heater uses about 4bls every 28 hours, it is a Dickenson P1200.

 

[John61CT]

I have one on my Dodge Caravan poptop conversion it works fine does not get in the way and is easy to fill at stations.

So you've got room under there to hang a tank taking 12.5+ high and still get enough clearance? I take it no dirt roads?

 

[flying kurbmaster]

So you've got room under there to hang a tank taking 12.5+ high and still get enough clearance? I take it no dirt roads?

I go wherever I want to go, a lot is made of clearance, cities are crawling with high clearance SUVs, as usual a lot of smoke and mirrors, instilling fear and propaganda, that is how they make smoking sexy,  keep them eating meat and dairy, how they sell guns and ammo and  win elections. Bambozziling you to think you cant go there because you are lacking something. Plenty of dirt roads, I've gone on some of North Americas most remote with the tank hanging under her, the Stewart, the  Alaska highway, the Top of the World, the Dempster, the Translabrador and boondocked off all of them

 

[John61CT]

OK, excellent info there! Can you tell me then what clearance you have on the Caravan? And in your opinion, could you safely go any lower, what's the minimum?

 

[John61CT]

Here's another approach

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/dr_hook/3b39cc22.jpg

 

[flying kurbmaster]

the tank is at the same height as the running boards, if you look closely you can see a section of the running boards is removable just behind the drivers door to get at the filler nozzle. I wouldn't want to go any lower don't get me wrong the more clearance you have the better off you will be but it should not be a game changer especially in your case where you don't want propane inside, that said you still have to bring propane inside and if you have a leak anywhere else except for the tank, having a tank outside does nothing to improve your situations,  likely a lot more connection and opportunities to leak inside then out especially if you want to hook up stoves, heaters, bbq outlets and perhaps a fridge, the tanks is the least of your worries, portable tank connections can be checked every time you hook them up where as connections to appliances are rarely checked.

 

[John61CT]

the tank is at the same height as the running boards, if you look closely you can see a section of the running boards is removable just behind the drivers door to get at the filler nozzle.

Sweet setup. Could you give me the actual inches? Others' ideas on a not-conservative minimum also welcome. . .

Did you place the actual tank there, or somehow run a "remote"fill + spitter valve? I'm figuring out how to do that, looking at the Manchester toroidal.

you don't want propane inside, that said you still have to bring propane inside and if you have a leak anywhere else except for the tank, having a tank outside does nothing to improve your situations,  likely a lot more connection and opportunities to leak inside then out especially if you want to hook up stoves, heaters, bbq outlets and perhaps a fridge, the tanks is the least of your worries, portable tank connections can be checked every time you hook them up where as connections to appliances are rarely checked.

Fair point, but since I want to carry ~100# in total, space is an issue too.

So far space heating (the big user) and most cooking will run outside. I'll bring in a tiny bottle filled from the main supply with the camp stove sometimes, but normally stowed up on the roof.

I am not so silly as to think I'm going to eliminate all risks, but with regard to propane I will go to quite some expense to minimise them as much as possible.