How many people run their non vented propane heater all night?

[ccbreder]

We aren't confused, Some are confusing. As time goes on there will be fewer that run a non-vented heat source in a closed space. You could wake up with it raining inside your van. If you wake.

 

[MikeRuth]

My mistake and apologies offered.
I did do a specific search for CO2 after reading of my error and found a few and they are very pricey ouch. If you want one it can be had.

Mike R

 

[B and C]

What is your life worth?

 

[MikeRuth]

B & C don't get me wrong, When I said pricey indeed a device that is going to be roughly a minimum of $150.00 and maybe double is the why I said OUCH.

Of course a life is worth much more. Cheers.

Mike R

 

[B and C]

The one I linked to:

http://www.amazon.com/Motorhome-Trailer-Monoxide-Propane-Detector/dp/B003ZJLD3G

is only $96 and can be hardwired into your existing electrical system.  Expensive, but not outrageous.

 

[akrvbob]

I've lived and slept with an Olympian running for 24/7 from October till May for 6 years. That's around 1300 nights.

During normal Anchorage, Alaska temperatures (teens to twenties) condensation was not an issue in any way. But if we'g get a cold snap (well below zero for weeks at a time) afterwards all the frost would melt off the roof at once and it would literally rain inside the van. Most of you should never see those temperatures so it should not be an issue.

I wouldn't hesitate for one second to run an Olympian over night as long as you follow the instruction manual exactly for ventilation and clearances.
Bob

 

[BobBski]

I'll second what Bob said. I lived in Alaska for 14 years and spent many extended stays, during the winter, in rv's, tents, cabins, snow cave, aluminum truck shells etc. The biggest moisture/condensation issues were during the initial warm up of the "cold soaked" shelters/vehicles. Once the shelter was warmed condensation was minimal except in the coldest of times. In unwarmed/enclosed shelters...the human body is our biggest moisture enemy as it creates warm moist air but not enough warmth to prevent condensation on exposed metal/glass surfaces. Trivia: We all remember our youthful days of "parking" in cooler temps only to find our windows fogged and covered in droplets of water

Some of the things we do to have privacy also creates condensation problems...privacy curtains between sleeping area and driving area, curtains over windows etc. These things prevent sufficiently warm air from keeping the Windows/walls from warming.

Note: one of the biggest reasons I sleep with heat, in cold temps, is to protect my electronics. I may sleep warm in the cold of the night but the electronics have become cold soaked. Fire up the heat in the morning and the components will "sweat" and if not left to warm/dry sufficiently before turning on, they can be damaged.

Having said all this....being a snowbird and sleeping in a well ventilated vehicle greatly minimizes condensation issues. Have a great day.

 

[BobBski]

How do you keep the humidity under control?  I ran my Mr. Heater for 2 hours in 29°, 40% humidity weather and had windows fog up and other inside surfaces damp.  Had 1 window open low (10 sq in) in 350 cu ft living space.

Only have condensation at initial start up until Windows and metal start to warm....then it dries and quits.  Condensation is caused by warm moist air hitting a cool surface.  It's for this reason that most vehicles won't let the ac work in the defrost vents to the Windows.
I fish from the bank, around the clock, on the banks of the Ohio River, all winter long.  I sit in the comfort of my van, Mr Heater on constantly, Friday thru Sunday....no issues with condensation.  Now, if I decide to turn it off for an extended period, letting the Windows etc get cold soaked again, the process starts over.
Getting into a vehicle in the morning on a cold day after scraping ice off the windshield, your Windows/windshield will fog up, sometimes even frost up.  It's only after the defroster warms the window enough that it disappears.

 

[johnny b]

The one I linked to:

http://www.amazon.com/Motorhome-Trailer-Monoxide-Propane-Detector/dp/B003ZJLD3G

is only $96 and can be hardwired into your existing electrical system.  Expensive, but not outrageous.

AGAIN-- confusing Carbon MONOXIDE (CO) and Carbon DIOXIDE (CO2) -- 2 different gasses.

Like BOB says--ventilation is key when heating an enclosed space.

 

[B and C]

I guess I did not realize that CO2 was being discussed and not CO.  The detector I linked to is both a CO detector and a propane detector.  Two very useful detectors to have.  All the flames I have are vented outside except for the cook top.  No flames inside means I am not burning oxygen, just breathing it.  Whenever we are cooking inside the vent-a-hood or the fantastic vent are running or the doors and/or windows are open.

I do not worry about carbon dioxide as it just lowers the oxygen level and is non toxic.  There is plenty of oxygen in a van for overnight and there is always air leaks however small. The fresh air intake cannot be completely blocked without modifications.  

Carbon monoxide is toxic.  A buildup of it can be fatal especially to those that are sleeping or are drunk.  I do have a furnace that could emit CO as well as a generator and the van engine itself.  This is why I have a CO detector and not bother with a CO2 detector.

 

[johnny b]

I guess I did not realize that CO2 was being discussed and not CO.  The detector I linked to is both a CO detector and a propane detector.  Two very useful detectors to have.  All the flames I have are vented outside except for the cook top.  No flames inside means I am not burning oxygen, just breathing it.  Whenever we are cooking inside the vent-a-hood or the fantastic vent are running or the doors and/or windows are open.

I do not worry about carbon dioxide as it just lowers the oxygen level and is non toxic.  There is plenty of oxygen in a van for overnight and there is always air leaks however small. The fresh air intake cannot be completely blocked without modifications.  

Carbon monoxide is toxic.  A buildup of it can be fatal especially to those that are sleeping or are drunk.  I do have a furnace that could emit CO as well as a generator and the van engine itself.  This is why I have a CO detector and not bother with a CO2 detector.

Please re-read this thread. I responded about the toxicity of CO2 in response to another poster claiming CO2 to be non-toxic. While it is unlikely to be a problem, a small space and lack of ventilation could create a dangerous build up of CO2. While not 'toxic' by some definitions, it is an asphyxiant gas and can be deadly.

http://inspectapedia.com/hazmat/Carbon_Dioxide_Hazards.php

The key is ventilation.

(my apologies if I'm being a little pig-headed on the subject, but there have been too many discussions confusing the 2 gasses--CO and CO2--
just hoping to 'clear the air' a bit   )

 

[TMG51]

Please re-read this thread. I responded about the toxicity of CO2 in response to another poster claiming CO2 to be non-toxic. While it is unlikely to be a problem, a small space and lack of ventilation could create a dangerous build up of CO2. While not 'toxic' by some definitions, it is an asphyxiant gas and can be deadly.

http://inspectapedia.com/hazmat/Carbon_Dioxide_Hazards.php

The key is ventilation.

(my apologies if I'm being a little pig-headed on the subject, but there have been too many discussions confusing the 2 gasses--CO and CO2--
just hoping to 'clear the air' a bit   )

Somehow I think this is getting more confusing rather than less. The greatest danger of a propane appliance in a closed space is that incomplete combustion of propane can result in CO (carbon monoxide) gas, which can quickly become deadly in the wrong environment. So, it's quite reasonable for someone to suggest a CO and LP leak detector. Why would you tell him that he is confusing the issue?

Yes, CO2 (carbon dioxide) is another byproduct, and although not directly toxic it can be a threat because it isn't oxygen. I think it's unlikely anyone's van is sealed up well enough for that to be a huge problem, but it's certainly valid to point out. But I think that by responding to someone talking about CO, and telling him he's confusing the issue, you could be misleading uninformed readers into thinking they don't need to be concerned about CO, which is the greater threat.

 

[akrvbob]

I think it's off-topic and confusing. Let's confine the conversation to carbon monoxide and no more about carbon dioxide.
Bob

 

[speedhighway46]

Hello all:

This is a most interesting thread.

I just returned from five days on the road in my Peterbilt motorhome. Nights got down to the low 40's, high 30's. Certainly not frigid cold, but definitely in the region of needing some form of supplemental heat source.

Last year I bought a Mr. Heater and have used it numerous times observing the proper ventilation, etc. It has worked flawlessly. The only drawback was the cost of the propane in the one pound bottles. One bottle would run the heater five or six hours on the lowest setting (adequate to heat my space), but at over $5.00 per bottle it was not "cheap heat". Before I left on my trip last week I purchased a 20 pound bottle and a combination smoke/CO detector. At $16.00 for a refill, it reduces the propane cost to less than $1.00 per pound. 

I think I have finally hit on the perfect heating setup. I placed the bottle inside the area where I sleep so I can quickly get to the shut off valve in case of emergency. The heater rests six feet away in an open area away from combustable materials. I leave one window slightly open; and a vent high on the wall also open.

So my routine is: Low temps into the 50's, use the 12 VDC electric blanket; down into the 40's and 30's, and maybe below, fire up the heater and enjoy the evening's sleep!

 

[GotSmart]

When it is freezing, I run my Mr Heater on pilot while I am sleeping.  That puts out enough heat to cut the worst of the cold. Otherwise it is only running when I am awake. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JT7IGQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

 

[Numpty]

Carbon MONOXIDE (CO) is heavier than air and sinks to floor level.

You must have a vent at floor level.

Cracked windows and roof vents may not stop you from dying.

And if you live through the exposure it causes permanent damage to heart muscle.

 

[mockturtle]

In actuality, CO is lighter than air at 'room temperature' but heavier than air at around freezing.

 

[66788]

We aren't confused, Some are confusing. As time goes on there will be fewer that run a non-vented heat source in a closed space. You could wake up with it raining inside your van. If you wake.

I've used my Olympian Wave 3 and Wave 6 extensively in my van and if used with proper ventilation, they are safe and comfortable products.

I lower the driver's side window 1/2 inch and open the roof vent about 3/4 inch and all is good. If it gets too hot, they I open the roof vent even more.

At my age I don't even buy green bananas anymore, so going in my sleep would be a blessing.   :angel:

 

[speedhighway46]

Hello Dwellers:

GotSmart made a comment abt running his Mr. Heater on the pilot setting, and even on that low setting it helped "cut the cold."

I normally spend the night in the "sleeper" of my Peterbilt tractor (the bunk area), not in the rear portion of the vehicle which is a 16' converted van box. I imagine the cubic foot size of my 63" sleeper is similar to that of you van users; heating requirements would also be similar.

I run my Mr. Heater as low as possible; just a hair higher than the pilot setting; and just high enough to provide enough gas to full saturation of the ceramic tile. However, unless the temps are down into the "teens" this is really too much heat for what is actually needed. This also wastes propane.

So looking for a way to "use less gas" or find a smaller heater, I started looking around for other units. Abt a year ago Mr. Heater came out with a smaller unit called "Little Buddy." I thought . . . just what I need, and with the quality I was so happy with from my several-year-old Mr. Heater.

I ordered one from Amazon, expecting great things. I owned it less than 24 hours; shipped it back. Here's why:

The unit installs directly on the 1 pound bottle; in fact, the bottle is actually the stand for the heater. Mr. Buddy provides a ring or base that increases the footprint of the bottle so the unit stands upright. Somehow, the unit sent to me did not contain the base ring; missing. Probably got packed on third shift! Anyhow, the Little Buddy is extremely top heavy, and even with the base installed, I would not trust it to never fall over. This really concerned me as a primary safety issue. Poor design for the sake of compactness and simplicity.

But what really caused me to send the unit back was the lack of a variable heater control on the unit. Basically, it runs at one pre-set level which cannot be adjusted. That's a bummer. I thought the smaller unit, being more compact than the regular sized Mr. Buddy, would provide a lower heat rating. Wrong, it runs at 3800 BTU and that's it.

In reading customer reviews of the Little Buddy there were numerous complaints of difficulty in lighting the unit, particularly in even light winds. I cannot speak to this as I never got far enough in my evaluation process to even light the unit.

The unit is smaller in size than the regular unit, so if this is important to you it may be a product you should take a look at. There were positive reviews, and the build quality looked good. Its just the potential tipping issue and non-adjustable output scotched it me for me.

I'll stick with the regular sized unit until something else better comes along. Maybe rated 1000 to 2500 BTUs adjustable.

Thanks.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

Just FYI the Wave 3 is 1600btu on low... and the pilot light cannot be left on. Works well in my well insulated cargo van.