How important is four wheel drive and ground clearance?

[skyl4rk]

If I am pulling a cargo trailer conversion and I want to spend time in the Rockies and desert Southwest, should I choose a four wheel drive vehicle?

If one wants to go far enough into wilderness areas to get away from traffic and people, do you have to go on really bad roads?

Do you need a four wheel drive on backroads in desert areas or mountain areas?

How much ground clearance is adequate?  Is a lifted vehicle an advantage?

If you want to explore some remote areas, do you need four wheel drive in case you get stuck?

How does two wheel drive limit you when exploring BLM land and national forests?

Can you get to enough interesting areas with two wheel drive to make it "not worth it" to have four wheel drive?

Do you eventually learn how to drive a two wheel drive vehicle on bad roads so you know where not to drive and won't get stuck?

Are there road problems like mudholes, big rocks or sandy sections that you have to watch out for?

What is a type of vehicle that works well exploring these areas (either two wheel drive or four wheel drive)?

Will a cargo van work on two track and gravel roads?

 

[LeeRevell]

4X4 can indeed get you into the outback away most campers. But there is also a very valid adage that states the only thing 4X4 gives you is the ability to get stuck deeper in the rough. You take your chances, and need some good offroading skills.
A tall van isn't the best 4X4 offroad vehicle, due to height (higher CG) and weight. But it can get you to a good point to make basecamp for hiking in deeper, if you want to really 'get away from it all'.
Being in the Southeast, I am more apt to encounter soft deep sugar sand and mud conditions - not a lot of rock crawling down here. In the Southwest conditions are different. More rocks and gullies.
Ground clearance counts for more than 4X4 usually. I have seen skillful drivers in RWD trucks go places some 4X4 trucks fear to tread. It also helps to keep from damaging your underfloor tanks and batteries if you have them.

 

[Almost There]

4X4 can indeed get you into the outback away most campers.  But there is also a very valid adage that states the only thing 4X4 gives you is the ability to get stuck deeper in the rough.  

That old adage is exactly why I steered well clear of 4x4 when I went shopping for the van.

I know me all too well   Given 4WD, I'd be way back out there and still going. Knowing that I don't have that capability will limit hopefully limit me to more sensible (for me) choices.

If I can't get there with the van and still want to go, I can pack the backpack and hike it!

 

[GrantRobertson]

Don't 4x4s also get a lot worse gas mileage?

 

[jimindenver]

We have been down many back roads in our vans, sometimes pulling our old trailer too. Vans have good ground clearance and really that's better than 4x4 with out the clearance. The only time I use the 4x4 now is for the low gearing to get over things in a controlled manner. This way we are not popping over rocks and slamming the rig down on the other side. Traction isn't a issue unless it is wet in most places and roads, trails and such that do need 4x4 are usually listed as a 4x4 trail somewhere and graded 1-10. The worse the trailer has seen is a 2 or 3, the trucks have seen considerable worse. You might be surprised that when push comes to shove, those grocery getters can push back.

So we see fairly good sized rocks, holes, wash outs, wash boards, mud and sand. Some of the less traveled ruts are in better shape than the roads, the biggest thing I worry about is ripping the plumbing off the back end of the trailer. We use the 2x8 planks that we level with to get across some holes and ruts. We carry full sized shovels to fill in the ones that are too big for the planks. Going in may not be bad but one good rain storm and getting out may be hell.

This is why I say once we are in our spot and set up we are there until it is time to go home. Hitching up the trailer for a water run is a 100 mile round trip and that first 5 miles out can take a hour or so.

 

[mockturtle]

To me, both are important and are why I chose my rig. Have had the RV only four months and have used the 4WD several times. Just yesterday, I drove through sand. It felt like deep, slushy snow--kind of 'slidy'. It was fun.

 

[compassrose]

Might want to consider a self-converted skoolie and flat tow your 4WD jeep. Skoolies have a higher ground clearance than typical RV's. The side walls on my flat-faced Blue Bird is 18" off the ground. The front bumper is a bit lower and the rear bumper is a bit higher. It's geared lower so while I might not go speeding down the highway at 75 mph and more, running over everything in my way because I can't stop the heavy thing fast enough, it climbs up some pretty steep grades, like that 45 degree drive at a casino David turned the bus around at. It is capable of doing 60 mph. Part of the reason we had settled on a skoolie to convert is based on the years of tent camping and popup camping in public campgrounds. We saw far too many manufactured RV get hung on the gravel/dirt roads. The other reason is I like to looks of the pre-1985 Blue Bird Wanderlodges. The older Wanderlodges used to be built on Blue bird's All American chassis and that is what we bought.

Don't forget the farther off the beaten path you are, the harder it is for help to get to you when you really need it. And they are starting to make people pay to be rescued from their stupidity.

 

[jimindenver]

We have only needed help once and that was on a cat 5 4x4 trail outside of Idaho Springs. It cost $1300 to get someone up there and all day to finish the trail.

 

[Willy]

Over here, in BC, a 4x4 is almost a necessity if one wants to get off the highway.. especially during the winter. Having 4lo really helps since a lot of terrain precludes getting a 'running start', unless you're not worried about tearing up your suspension. Hell, just last month I pulled off the highway into a Forest Service rec site with about 6" of snow on the ground and.. had to engage 4x4 to get out and had only gone in around 100' on the flats. There are also quite a few decommissioned roads which have awesome campsites, but are waterbarred and inaccessible by 2wd (even with posi) unless one were to carry some heavy planks in order to drive over. That's not to say that there aren't plenty of places that a 2wd can get to, just that there are that many fewer and more 'pressure' put on them by other folks. ..Willy.

 

[minimotos95]

To me 4x4 is a emergency item, If you can't get there in 2wd, the right tires and momentum you probably shouldn't be going there without backup, and when the weather takes a turn for the worse you will be glad you still have that transfer case lever on the floor and tire chains to hopefully get you out.
Heavy rain can make trails and dirt roads in the desert southwest impassible to even many 4x4s in the matter of minutes and you have to wait for the next sunny day for it to dry out, but if you stay on the graveled roads rather than dirt roads it's not so much an issue, even when everything is pure slime mud those graveled roads are still doable in a 2wd.
Snow in the mountains is even more dangerous. It's suicidal to go into the mountains when the forecast isn't clear.

As for ground clearance, the longer the wheelbase the more ground clearance you need, getting high centered is a horrible experience. Attack and departure angles are also important for crossing washes and ditches.


My 2wd van is getting a 1-2" lift via shackles and a torsion bar crank then the tallest tires I can fit. I have experienced, know the rules, risks and have had to do self recovery for 2wd in varying conditions. No it's not fun, it may be stressful at times but it works.

 

[spd2918]

Don't 4x4s also get a lot worse gas mileage?

Yes.  They cost more to buy, insure, and maintain.

Were I using a truck camper, I'd probably got with a 4x4 truck.  A van?  No way (the exception being a newer Chev van as the cost differences are minor).

 

[compassrose]

... getting high centered is a horrible experience...

And now I have that image from RV stuck in my head.

 

[akrvbob]

When I went full-time as a boondocker on public land I was in a 4x4 truck and never got stuck. After 3 years I sold the truck and bought a van. In the 3 years since then I've been stuck six times, so yes, I very much regret not having 4x4. On a regular basis now I come to a wash I would easily have gone over with 4x4 and now I'm scared to in a van. In the summer in the forest, I never got stuck in mud and do often now in the van. Bear in mind I'm on public land 365 days a year so I get lots of chances to get stuck.

On the other hand, if I put a locker on the rear of the van, a couple inches of body lift on it and aggressive tires in the back, then I'd take the washes no problem and not get stuck in mud. In the long run that would be a lot less expensive than a 4x4 because of the extra cost up-front to buy it, worse MPG and higher maintenance costs of a 4x4.

The single most important thing to do is to carry an air compressor and air down your tires. That alone will do more than even 4x4 for the places the majority of us want to go.
Bob

 

[GrantRobertson]

Would having an aggressive pair of snow chains help mitigate some of the issues with not having a 4x4? When I lived in KC, MO (back in the days when it actually snowed there) I could get through any snow drift or up any snow or ice covered hill just by putting my snow chains onto my front-wheel-drive car. It was like having a super power. Now, these chains were super aggressive. They had a thick bar welded across the outside of each link, like this:

 

[RVTravel]

Forest service roads are often rated as needing high clearance or 4WD. High clearance is defined as at least 8" of ground clearance.

 

[jimindenver]

We use to chain up the rear ends on the Econolines when the snow started getting over a foot deep. They were the unstoppable beast and we laughed at the 4x4's with all season tires getting stuck. I'd pull people out all day and half the night, the only issue I ever had was the tranny on the 02 E150 getting hot after about 6 hours of cutting thru 18 inches of snow. Now a days I use the chains on the F 150 4x4 when we get more than 2 feet. It takes 4x4 low just to push the snow but man what a blast. There isn't anyone out and about to pull out at that point so we just cruise around cutting the roads in the neighborhood. Once we have done that the more normal 4x4's can have a chance of getting out.

So snow chains are a lot of fun but like a 4x4 if you get in deep enough to get stuck, your stuck good.

 

[LowTech]

Would having an aggressive pair of snow chains help mitigate some of the issues with not having a 4x4?

Yes, in mud, maybe in sand, but not something I'd want to drive miles of dirt/gravel roads w/.

 

[GrantRobertson]

Yes, in mud, maybe in sand, but not something I'd want to drive miles of dirt/gravel roads w/.

The idea is that you stop and put them on when things start to look like trouble. Just something to have, buried under the tool box, for in case you need it. Certainly some cheap insurance.

 

[highdesertranger]

I have many responses to this thread. first, a true tire chain like the one in the pic are great for added traction but you should only go about 25 mph, the cable type chains can be run at higher speeds but they do not have near as good of traction. second, awd or full time 4wd or symmetrical all wheel drive or whatever they want to call it, is not 4wd and in my opinion is a waste of money. third, it is true an experience driver with a 2wd can go anywhere a 4x4 can go. however most of the time you need speed to get you though and speed in rough terrain = broken stuff. fourth, the right tires and a posi/locker is "almost" as good as a 4x4. fifth, ground clearance is good however don't have to much of a good thing, to high of center of gravity is really bad on off camber roads. sixth, don't put lift kits on 2wds it's not going to make it a 4x4 and your steering geometry is going to go out the window(taller tires are ok). in fact I don't recommend lifting any independent front suspension vehicles 2wd or 4wd. seventh, traction is the most important thing here, if you loose traction you get stuck this is where the low range works so well in 4x4's. I have been driving off road my whole life with both 2wds and 4wds. a 2wd will get you "plenty of places", however "plenty of places" are getting crowded nowadays. 2wd have problems in snow, on ice, in mud, in sand and in rocks(football size and larger). a 2wd will handle any maintained road, it's the unmaintained roads that they have problems. so you need to ask yourself "where do I want to go". do you want to get beyond the "plenty of places" that everybody can get to? or do you want to go beyond. highdesertranger

 

[Bdog1]

Remember dragging a trailer (as o/p mentioned) will get you stuck that much faster. A mild factory 4x4 with trailer might be more comparable to a 2wd and no trailer.