How do you plan to insure your conversion?

[Annie W]

Some might think your post was meant as
"Why isn't there a vid about insurance?"
as if you were expressing an expectation that there would be.

Rather than a more literal reading, meaning
"Is there one? and if so, please post a link?"

No expectation.

just the latter : Is there one? and if so, please post a link? - was only Asking...

 

[breeze]

I just called progressive and they told me that they couldn't insure my van because i told them i was converting it soon. To call back when it was fully converted.  im desperate right now.  Dont have insurance at the moment.

Progressive sounded like they would work with you. Either way, you are under-insured until the conversion is complete (mostly anyway.)

From moving around a lot, I can tell you decent insurance is available for a few years before the bandits start to go for the jugular vein. Just keep your driving record clean with no at-fault accidents and you should be fine. Drive Safe!

 

[Tiny Metal Tube]

Progressive sounded like they would work with you. 

I've searched far and wide, I called about 6-8 different insurance companies, including Progressive, and I can't find anyone with a good answer for this one. As far as I've been able to find, if you convert your van into a camper, **no** insurance company will honor a claim, either for your vehicle or the other vehicle. Apparently this kicks in as soon as you make a "permanent" change, which to them includes securing a bed, kitchen, or any other furniture to the van.

If you omit the camper/conversion/DIY part, you can *get* the insurance, but once you file a claim and they come look at it, they'll say it's not covered, and probably cancel your whole policy. And this goes for comprehensive, collision, liability, RV, and even "declared amount" insurance for the few who offer that.

The only time they'll cover anything in a campervan is if the conversion was done "professionally", and nobody seems able to tell me what defines a professional conversion nor how to become professionally certified, or if that's even a thing. But they've all said specifically that if you do your conversion yourself, claims won't be honored. If you tell them about it, they won't even give you a policy.

None of them even asked me about an RV title. They don't care. Plus an RV title seems to require a built-in/permanent bed and fridge, and built-in and plumbed sink and toilet. These things make it more complicated and take up more space, and they couldn't define what it takes to be considered built in / permanent.

Does anyone have any answer other than this? Has anyone actually filed a claim on a DIY campervan?

 

[Tiny Metal Tube]

Adding onto my last post, yes, of course I watched Bob's recent insurance videos. They covered:

How insurance works
Don't lie or omit to your insurance company; that voids your contract
Bob may have voided his insurance by cutting ribs out when he got the high top
Your personal property is not covered on an auto policy
Insurance is mostly the same across the country, but different states have different details
"Fulltiming insurance" comes with extra coverage for property and different kinds of liability
A full conversion to RV requires a plumbed toilet/shower and built-in fridge/stove (But note when I called the insurance companies they won't let you just do those things yourself, nor could they define "built-in")
Some vehicles are classified as "commercial" right out of the factory, which makes it more complicated

So apparently to get claimable insurance, you have to get it made "professionally" into an RV.

They did not cover:

Will anyone knowingly insure a self-converted/DIY camper van? Sounds like no but not conclusively.
How to get real, claimable insurance without buying a professionally converted / B-class RV
How to get it converted "professionally" to an RV / where to go / how to get certified as a professional RV converter

So all I got out of those videos is that I can have the legal requirements for insurance, but not insurance I can actually use.

If that's the final answer, so be it, but it needs to be out there and better-known. There are tons of people out there with policies that will not be honored.

 

[highdesertranger]

Bob just did a video about insurance I watched part 1 yesterday,



part 2 was released today. highdesertranger

 

[highdesertranger]

oops the above link is for part 2. here is part 1,



highdesertranger

 

[Tiny Metal Tube]

Bob just did a video about insurance

Thanks for the links, but I already watched them. I was more commenting based on what the insurance companies told me.

I have not, however, contacted Joe nor any local independent agents.  I will do so, and hopefully they will have better results.  This does not bode well for many thousands of people.

I need a policy I can file a claim on, or it's ceremonial at best.

Edit: I assumed you were replying to me. Sorry if I was wrong and jumped to conclusions. Not my thread. I saw a related thread and added onto it.

 

[kllcbosmetris]

I've searched far and wide, I called about 6-8 different insurance companies, including Progressive, and I can't find anyone with a good answer for this one. As far as I've been able to find, if you convert your van into a camper, **no** insurance company will honor a claim, either for your vehicle or the other vehicle. Apparently this kicks in as soon as you make a "permanent" change, which to them includes securing a bed, kitchen, or any other furniture to the van.

If you omit the camper/conversion/DIY part, you can *get* the insurance, but once you file a claim and they come look at it, they'll say it's not covered, and probably cancel your whole policy. And this goes for comprehensive, collision, liability, RV, and even "declared amount" insurance for the few who offer that.

The only time they'll cover anything in a campervan is if the conversion was done "professionally", and nobody seems able to tell me what defines a professional conversion nor how to become professionally certified, or if that's even a thing. But they've all said specifically that if you do your conversion yourself, claims won't be honored. If you tell them about it, they won't even give you a policy.

None of them even asked me about an RV title. They don't care. Plus an RV title seems to require a built-in/permanent bed and fridge, and built-in and plumbed sink and toilet. These things make it more complicated and take up more space, and they couldn't define what it takes to be considered built in / permanent.

Does anyone have any answer other than this? Has anyone actually filed a claim on a DIY campervan?

Interesting. They are probably talking about professional upfitters (re: conversion companies for ambulances, recreational vehicles, refrigerated conversions, etc.).  I know there is an option to buy a MB van without seats and send it directly to an upfitter (i.e. Sportsmobile, etc.) for customization. Here is a list: 

https://www.upfitterportal.com/en-us/upfitters/locator

Who did you talk to? Underwriting department or a random 1-800 customer service representative? My experience is that 1-800 people you talk to do not necessarily know the rules & regulations of their own company.  I am still curious to hear what Progressive, specifically, told you.

 

[Tiny Metal Tube]

Who did you talk to? Underwriting department or a random 1-800 customer service representative? My experience is that 1-800 people you talk to do not necessarily know the rules & regulations of their own company.  I am still curious to hear what Progressive, specifically, told you.

Random 1-800 customer service representatives. A few of them had to ask someone else or look it up.

Progressive said they can cover "professionally" converted vans, but not vans we convert ourselves. I asked but they couldn't explain what defines a professional conversion other than I can't be the one to have done it.

I don't know all the different kinds of people in the insurance industry (underwriters and agents for example), since my insurance company doesn't use agents and I don't usually have to talk to humans. I usually just click things on their website and it spits out a proof of insurance.  The devil's in the details on this one.

 

[tx2sturgis]

WAY up there in post #16 I already mentioned that Progressive is a dead end when it comes to insuring a self-built camper van.

 

[John61CT]

A professional is one that carries an Errors & Omissions insurance policy, or at least one that covers liability, so your insurance company can sue them if a faulty design or installation is the cause of your covered loss.

Many fabricators I approach to help me with metalwork won't touch anything related to vehicle or trailer build work, don't want the extra liability.

 

[Tiny Metal Tube]

WAY up there in post #16 I already mentioned that Progressive is a dead end when it comes to insuring a self-built camper van.

As are Allstate and Good Sam.  I called State Farm and the lady said she'd check with an underwriter, but hasn't called me back.

 

[John61CT]

OK, so until we get something positive on the "be completely honest" front, what is the safest way forward?

I'm thinking call it a van for personal use, recreation, no reason to tell anyone it's our dwelling.

No one has anything to say how we insulate or decorate a vehicle right?

Make all the "buildout fittings" removable, it's just our personal property, maybe the expensive bits keep receipts and insure with a rider on rental insurance if we can.

In the event of a major accident, we just happened to be transporting that personal property in our van.

Yes there's a risk a shady outfit would try to welsh out on a big liability payout, but I have a hard time seeing them doing that for accident repair bills or even a write off at book value of the bare vehicle itself.

Those hoping for a $30K agreed value on a platform only worth $20K are pretty much out in the cold, but for most of us wouldn't the above mostly cover our most likely risks?

 

[Weight]

I have liability with USAA. It covers my van for liability. It provides medical coverage to me if vehicle related, and property coverage to any I damage with the van. I did not ask or expect to have comprehensive or collision coverage for the stuff I built into the van. If I wanted to insure the contents, I would ask my homeowners agent what is available. If I wanted full coverage for my mobile home, my camper van, I would buy a RV and insure that. Different states for different folks.

 

[Scout]

OK, so until we get something positive on the "be completely honest" front, what is the safest way forward?

I'm thinking call it a van for personal use, recreation, no reason to tell anyone it's our dwelling.

No one has anything to say how we insulate or decorate a vehicle right?

Make all the "buildout fittings" removable, it's just our personal property, maybe the expensive bits keep receipts and insure with a rider on rental insurance if we can.

In the event of a major accident, we just happened to be transporting that personal property in our van.

Yes there's a risk a shady outfit would try to welsh out on a big liability payout, but I have a hard time seeing them doing that for accident  repair bills or even a write off at book value of the bare vehicle itself.

Those hoping for a $30K agreed value on a platform only worth $20K are pretty much out in the cold, but for most of us wouldn't the above mostly cover our most likely risks?

This sounds like good advice. Why does the insurance need to know you live in it? You could be on vacation for all they know.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Make all the "buildout fittings" removable, it's just our personal property, maybe the expensive bits keep receipts and insure with a rider on rental insurance if we can.

In the event of a major accident, we just happened to be transporting that personal property in our van.

Working as a public adjuster for a number of years on  homeowner's claims.....(I negotiate on behalf of the homeowner with the insurance company) one thing I can tell you about insurance claims is a lot of it is luck of the draw.....luck being what adjuster gets assigned to the claim.  I've had adjusters pay on claims that technically could have been denied and others nickle and dime the customer to death over a very legitimate claim and everything in between.  

In the event of a major accident, especially where someone is hurt and there is going to be 100's of thousands in medical bills, they'll be going over your vehicle with a fine tooth comb looking for ways to get out of paying the claim.  They have lengthy investigative processes and lawyers that will dig up all sorts of things, as well as signed under oath statements from you on exactly how and what you were using the van for.  The  " I just happened to be transporting personal property" is most likely not going to fly in a major accident.  They'll want to know where you were coming from with an address, where you were going with an ending address and everything you did inbetween and they'll absolutely go check up on all the info you give them.

 

[John61CT]

Yes, but so far the only alternatives seems to be "getting more than the required minimum liability is throwing money away", or

"don't bother DIYing your own build, only buy from official upfitters".

Nothing is risk-free.

I have to believe most of the time following my scheme will be OK, obviously trying to keep the appearances in line with the official story as much as possible.

And all bets are off if your faulty propane or electrical issues are the cause of the problem, in that case the judge would likely fully support the insurance refusing a payout.

 

[Tiny Metal Tube]

This sounds like good advice. Why does the insurance need to know you live in it? You could be on vacation for all they know.

In my talking with the insurance companies, the problem isn't that you live in it. The problem is either that (1) you do a "conversion", and that conversion causes the loss, or (2) you withhold pertinent facts (e.g. the "conversion") from them. They generally won't issue a policy in either case, and they'll use either as an excuse not to pay a claim.

Now I did talk with my insurance company about it, I did notify them of my plans, and I read my policy thoroughly. I think I'm OK, since I told them. The fact that they didn't cancel or non-renew on their end is their own fault, and I think that happened that way because I approached it from the angle of "I want to make sure I get the right kind of coverage..." so they were distracted by trying to find another kind of policy for me, and they never returned to the point of the conversion itself.

I have liability + comprehensive + collision and much better coverage than is required by law or my financing contract. My policy covers a small amount of personal property (I think up to $250) but there's another clause that seperately covers anything that is "capable of being powered" by the vehicle's stock electrical system, and all "accessories" thereof. Doesn't say it must be powered by that system. I may also pick up some renter's insurance to cover the personal property inside it. My homeowner's insurance does not cover the personal property and it'll be going away whenever I sell the house. 

Read your policies, folks.

 

[John61CT]

So what company and policy type did you end up with?

And yes I think the "social engineering" side is very important, who you talk to, how you approach the touchy areas, even your own assumptions and expectations going in.

 

[Tiny Metal Tube]

I'd rather not say, just to cover my butt. But it helped that the van was already on my policy at the time.

This wasn't really social engineering. More of a happy accident. YMMV, IANAL, best of luck.