Homelessness [split from Leadville and Salida Ranger Districts]

[RoamerRV428]

Oddly enough, the state with the highest cost of living, the highest income and the ridiculously high property values also has 1/3 the homeless and shelterless population in the country. I'm sure the fairly pleasant weather also contributes...well, until recently, anyway. I'm sure there's both a causation and correlation there

wondering could it have anything also to do with 'being right on the border' and illegals and more contributing to those numbers? I mean it is in 'that area' where being big cost of living and big income and 'big factors' that effect the state thru illegal/other issues that pretain more thru social service costs and more could effect a state massively. Just wondering on it all cause I don't find it that odd at all kinda.

 

[RoamerRV428]

see highest to live is Hawaii and NY state and then CA in that it is also shown that Hawaii has lower than CA stats and NY has bigger states against the highest cost of living and more. I think the location of 'that state' and more show biggie issues with what states come out ahead on who has the most homeless........NOW this is just chat on it all, nothing more here

 

[maki2]

New York City has similar problems of high housing cost and homeless on the streets and it is not near the border to Mexico. This is a supply and demand situation. It is a situation where people have health issues including drug and alcohol addictions and mental health or unable to hold a job, or even get a job that provides a living wage. Of families abounded by the wage earner or the loss of the primary wage earner. This is not a new situation that has recently arisen. It was true in large cities in the Middle Ages in Europe and has remained true throughout the centuries.

 

[WanderingRose]

This is an interesting article on how we could improve conditions in this country, but don’t.

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/17/1158230630/poverty-by-america-book-review-matthew-desmond-evicted
One particular finding…

“In 2020, the federal government spent more than $193 billion on subsidies for homeowners — "most families who enjoy this benefit have six-figure incomes and are white" — but just $53 billion on direct housing assistance for low-income families. That's not for lack of need. Because of chronic federal underinvestment, only 1 in 4 extremely low-income Americans who qualify for housing aid get it.”

 

[Morgana]

Some of the lowest housing costs are also on the border.
How are people who mostly don't have a dime ("""illegals""") supposed to drive up the cost of housing?
Are they offering such high payments that they're pricing other people out of the market?
Are they causing building materials to cost more?
Are they driving up interest rates?

Seriously, before you blame an entire class of people for a major social problem, think it through.
And if you don't mean it seriously, then don't say a thing like that. "Just wondering" and "just chatting" don't make it all right.

 

[RoamerRV428]

this is a blurb from a real estate sight stating this: as an example!

After years of saving up for a down payment, Mexican immigrant Maria Gonzalez, 33, and her husband finally moved out of their Chicago-area rental apartment into their own four-bedroom, two-bathroom house in the city. It wasn’t easy—she works in sales and he owns a mechanical shop, and money was tight. But they managed to put down about $14,000 and got a mortgage for the rest of their $230,000 single-family house. They closed in March.

And now the couple, who have been in the U.S. for 15 years, fear they could lose their home at any moment if one or both of them are deported. Gonzalez, whose name has been changed to protect her privacy, overstayed her tourist visa years ago. Her husband is also living illegally in the U.S.

“These are very difficult and scary times,” says Gonzalez through a translator. “We don’t know what’s really going to happen.”

------So direct cause and effect point blank. IF SOMEONE who is illegal can buy a home and keep home prices increasing yet then have to foreclose or ??? they have a massive effect on the pricing/location of real estate markets and values.

So don't be thinking that 'a class of people' don't effect the entire countries economy, it sure does happen that way.

Not saying all this is 'bad' but a 'chat on it shows' some real darn economic and real estate proofs. Not all illegals are sitting home and 'not effecting the markets' of everything around those services they use and interact.

They can purchase, keep the real estate market thriving and increasing at the same time having issues of their own oboviously thru it all for country and personal but in the end, all is effected point blank in the entire system. Not a doubt on that.

 

[bullfrog !]

Years ago when I started working closely with people coming from other countries doing seasonal work I was amazed at how easily and well they worked together. They were exceptionally accepting and accommodating of each other as far as living together in cramped small spaces in order to save money and make the money they made count. They did communal meals every few days with lots of leftovers to live off of in between. They used the hot bed system of sleeping, one bed for two people where one worked day shift and one worked a late evening or night shift. Sleeping on the floor wasn’t uncommon even during the day. Sharing was the rule and not an uncommon occurrence. One car for six people was made to work by sharing expenses. Anyone that complained too much would be isolated, avoided and would usually soon leave but on rare occasions tough it out and eventually make it on their own. After many years most all of them even today, even the ones that went out on their own that are still working seasonally or became American citizens gather every month or so encouraging and helping each other to become American citizens or overcome the difficulties in order to do so. Seems strange to me that people born and raised in this country with the advantage of already being citizens and “living the American dream” are so unwilling to do what needs to be done to make life better for everyone including themselves by not dealing with the problems we have in this country that causes many people to be forced into homelessness with little or no access to medical or mental health treatment, temporary shelter or safety/security for the rest of their lives. Doesn’t it seem strange that people from other countries can come here and work together to solve the problem of homelessness for themselves and yet the people that are born and raised here don’t seem to be able to? The idea of “entitlement” seems to have grown to a point that it has been engrained into the policies created by those that can already afford to have it but are unwilling to provide help to those that need it in my opinion. Maybe once pretty much everyone becomes poor or needs help things will change. Maybe the reason people coming from other countries do so well is because it has already happened in the countries they came from. Maybe we should learn from their experiences so we can avoid it happening in this country “in my opinion”.

 

[rruff]

This is an interesting article on how we could improve conditions in this country, but don’t.

Beware of calls for more "government programs". It's so much better to make them unnecessary...

It's best to do what sane developed countries do. High wages due to ubiquitous unions that negotiate with companies for wages based on revenues and profits! Crazy huh? To actually have workers, management, and owners cooperate and work toward a common goal... making the company successful and the employees wealthy (or at least comfortable).

Another thing... better public benefits. So there is much less to worry about.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Years ago when I started working closely with people coming from other countries ..... They were exceptionally accepting and accommodating of each other as far as living together in cramped small spaces in order to save money and make the money they made count .....

It's called extended family, something our cultural leaders have been working to eliminate for the last 60 years.

..... Seems strange to me that people born and raised in this country with the advantage of already being citizens and “living the American dream” are so unwilling to do what needs to be done to make life better for everyone including themselves by not dealing with the problems we have in this country that causes many people to be forced into homelessness with little or no access to medical or mental health treatment, temporary shelter or safety/security for the rest of their lives.

I've been taught since High School that that is the governments job. By the 3rd or 4th generation the 'foreighners' have moved apart and are part of the American culture and see taking care of family is no longer their responsibility.
Most of the first generation come from a place where health/mental care is primitive and family is the only resource you have. No pay = no care. If you are a widow, orphan, physically or mentally disabled and family can't take care of you, your life will be extremely difficult and short.

Doesn’t it seem strange that people from other countries can come here and work together to solve the problem of homelessness for themselves and yet the people that are born and raised here don’t seem to be able to? The idea of “entitlement” seems to have grown to a point that it has been engrained into the policies created by those that can already afford to have it but are unwilling to provide help to those that need it in my opinion .....

IMO everyone knows there is a problem, lots of different solutions, everyone wants someone else to pay the bill.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^I think we are getting to a point many people in this country are working poor and cannot afford to pay the bill! When you can’t afford basic needs while working a full time job you sure can’t afford to help others or pay higher taxes for that matter.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

So what is your solution?

 

[bullfrog !]

So far it seems the most successful has been to use what some communities with private organizations have done with veterans which is to offer housing in a tiny house community. That alone has worked to help very successfully. Just getting people under their own roof with a sense of community. Turns out it is also one of the cheapest solutions as well.

 

[user 22017]

So far it seems the most successful has been to use what some communities with private organizations have done with veterans which is to offer housing in a tiny house community. That alone has worked to help very successfully. Just getting people under their own roof with a sense of community. Turns out it is also one of the cheapest solutions as well.

No need to build tiny homes. We have a rich history of building quality housing units for those with low income. Different politicians halted housing programs... going back to Nixon. We can cut money for the military and wars. And increase taxes on corporations. Especially the giant ones that pay almost no taxes.

A couple other points, immigrants didn't want to break up their extended families in many (maybe most) cases. Gentrification did it. Immigrants want to live near each other for support (Eg. Chinatown, Little Vietnam). Their neighborhoods are taken from them causing them to scatter.

Another thing that happens is investors/developers build high rises (and homes) for low income folks with large subsidies from the government. When the contracts expire, all the low income tenants are kicked out and the buildings are converted to condos. Saw that happen in Chicago in the '90's. Anything for a buck=/

This is a good explainer:

Nationwide, there are only 30 units of housing
affordable and available for every 100 extremely
low income Americans. Federal housing assistance
only serves one quarter of those who qualify for it.
And special populations, such as disabled veterans
returning from combat or lower income seniors, are
increasing in number and need.

At the same time, the existing stock of affordable
rental housing is disappearing due to deterioration
and the exit of private owners from the affordable
housing market. According to the National
Housing Trust, Inc. our nation loses two affordable
apartments each year for every one created.

https://nlihc.org/sites/default/files/Sec1.03_Historical-Overview_2015.pdf

 

[bullfrog !]

In my opinion there is a problem with large housing projects in that they seem to isolate those that need to be integrated back into local communities. Smaller groups that have easier access to resources and are living in something they feel a sense of ownership is important to them not to mention their sense of belonging and security. Areas where organizations like Habitat for Humanity can find nearby properties and where those that have used the programs can serve as examples and give back by sharing their experiences. They need to be living somewhere they are treated as a person not a number. They need person to person counseling and to find worth through employment even small tasks like part time jobs, crossing guards or volunteering in community events in my opinion. The better more transparent there needs are the more successful the effort will be in my opinion.

 

[DLTooley]

So what is your solution?

Buy everyone who can keep a drivers license a van!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

In my opinion there is a problem with large housing projects in that they seem to isolate those that need to be integrated back into local communities .....

Nobody wants drug addicts and mentally challenged persons around where their kids play all summer.
Sevices for homeless would have to be distributed, which will greatly increase costs (which means service cuts).
Transportation is a problem; poor bus service in most suburbs.

..... organizations like Habitat for Humanity .....

Habitat for Humanity does it right IMO. They vet prospects for suitability for living in a home and require sweat equity in building the structure.

.....They need to be living somewhere they are treated as a person not a number .....

Why should they be treated any different than anyone else. All interactions I have with government is through my SS#, driver's license #, truck license plate #, property plat #, medicare #. All of us are just numbers in a computer somewhere.

They need person to person counseling and to find worth through employment even small tasks like part time jobs, crossing guards or volunteering in community events in my opinion. The better more transparent there needs are the more successful the effort will be in my opinion.

The more scattered the homeless are the harder and more expensive it is to provide services for them.

Buy everyone who can keep a drivers license a van!

Only about 1/3 of the homeless men I serve would qualify for a driver's license. No place to park, couldn't afford gas or upkeep, needs heat and insulation in winter, hotter than outside in summer, theft If you can't drive there are a lot of useless expensive parts on a van.
But - that is about the size needed for housing. Look at housing arrangements for single workers in Tokyo.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

So far it seems the most successful has been to use what some communities with private organizations have done with veterans which is to offer housing in a tiny house community .....

Could you direct me to some of these communities?

 

[bullfrog !]

Simply Google search “veterans tiny home communities” where you will find several video local news reports and press information.

 

[bullfrog !]

You either do what needs to be done to solve the problem or you live with a continually growing problem. Not everyone who is homeless has a drug or alcohol problem, those that do need to be treated. Those that don’t need help to stabilize their living situation.

 

[user 22017]

In my opinion there is a problem with large housing projects in that they seem to isolate those that need to be integrated back into local communities.

I'm not suggesting high rises for new construction. I meant that most public housing buildings built to government standards were exceptionally well made. I think HUD did away with most large housing units long ago. Scattered site smaller units are preferred.