Help for a newbie with an ALLPOWERS 288Wh/78000mAh Portable Solar Generator

[77jack77]

Hello everyone! 

In the simple camper I'm planning I will be using the Allpowers 288Wh/78000mAh Portable Solar Generator Battery. 

https://tinyurl.com/y3p9zfxv

It looks quite simple - plug in and play really. Which is ideal for me. Electrics scare me and I don't plan to do too many taxing things with it anyway so I don't think Ill need anything bigger. All I plan to do is to charge my phone, camera, and run some LED lights. Perhaps the biggest thing will be my laptop. 

I have a couple of questions though. 



The information on the solar generator says the solar charge input socket works with 12.6 - 18V and is 3A. Now this doesn't really mean much to me. 

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Question 1:[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]12.6 - 18V and is 3A are the given input figures for charging via solar panels. Buying a 12V panel seems simple enough. But I don't understand the amps thing. [/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I do not see a figure for amps on all solar panels. Is this important? For example if I plug in this 200W panel (given a rating of 5.15A max current flow) will I overload / break / do something dangerous to the battery? [/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]https://tinyurl.com/yxzvoaku[/font]


[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Question 2:[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]The above solar panel also says I need a solar 20A solar charge controller, which is confusing because the rating given was 5.1 amps. Am I right in thinking that this Allpowers generator has a battery inside already, and so I don't need a controller? - I could be wrong... [/font]


[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Question 3:[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Allpowers claim a charge time of 6 - 9 hours via a 100w solar panel. I understand may vary due to weather / dirty panels etc. But could I reduce charge time by having, for example, a 200W panel? Or shouldn't I do this because of the amps thing which I don't understand? Whats the most efficient panel in terms of watts and amps etc to use?[/font]


[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Question 4:  [/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Most solar panels have an MC4 cable. The solar generator solar charge input is a DC 5.5x2.1 mm socket. Therefore I will need to wire it using a mc4 to DC 5.5x2.1 mm cable like this, with nothing else?[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]https://tinyurl.com/y6lxs3ya[/font]


Question 5: 
[size=large][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]The solar generator says the solar charge input socket works with 12.6 - 18V and is 3A. [/font]I assume that if put something in it that is greater than these figures I'm going to break it or it will catch fire or something generally bad will happen? So I'll avoid that. [/size]


Question 6:
Most panels I have seen have been 12V. I assume this is okay and it doesn't matter that it is slightly lower than the 12.6V given on the generator?

Sorry about all the question, but it's all rather confusing to me. I hope someone will be able to help. I'd be very grateful.

 

[Elbear1]

Let me stop you. Please dont buy that. It's ok for a weekend trip but not gonna do the trick fulltime. I will let other explain the solar....

 

[B and C]

The panel you want puts out over 5 amps and the battery wants 3 amps at most. Panel will not work. Sounds like they suggested a 100 watt one which would be over 2.5 amps so would be under the maximum of 3 amps.

 

[AuricTech]

Without getting into more fundamental issues about designing your power system, I'll help you out with some basic answers.

Question 0: Volts times Amps equals Watts. As such, a 12W LED light might be 12V/1A, 120V/0.1A or 230V/0.05A.

Question 1: Given the answer I just gave to Question 0, I hope it's clear why that 200W panel to which you linked won't work with that Allpowers power station. The panel delivers 5.15A at 38.80VDC (Volts direct current, as opposed to VAC [Volts alternating current, such as with mains power]), which is more than enough Volts to destroy the electronics in that power station.

Question 2: Most such power stations have a built-in charge controller. That is why the Allpowers power station lists a (somewhat unusual) range of 12.6VDC to 18VDC.

Question 4: Yes, that is the type of cable you would need.

Hope all this helps!

 

[Matlock]

"Allpowers 288Wh/78000mAh"

It's important to remember that the ideal useable wattage from that battery isn't 288 watts. Ask the battery manufacturer about their battery, most will say lithium should be used from a 95% charge down to 20% discharge and they do not recommend going down to that extreme every cycle. So that 288 Wh drops down to 201.6 Wh or 70% of the advertised number.

If you add up the watts per hour on the plugged in electronics, and then have one cloudy day your battery is dead. I'd highly recommend enough battery for 3 non-charging days in a row. Then talk about recharge components.

 

[ZoNiE]

That thing is made to connect a "battery panel" to it, which is basically a 100 W solar panel that runs in the 15-20V range.
I'll second what Elbear1 said, that thing is overpriced for what it is and you will end up with a boat anchor.

 

[77jack77]

Thank you all. I'm am pleased so many of you have offered advice. It is very nice of you all to give me some of your time and try to help me!

Some interesting points raised. With so many people being so skeptical I may end up having to build a solar / battery system - which is something that I wanted to avoid if possible. It will take a great deal of reading up and effort on my part because I know almost nothing about this. But I guess that's where most people start. And I'm sure the effort will be worth the reward of a van with a power system that actually works.

That is unless anyone can recommend a more suitable solar generator battery pack that might actually work?

I did think also about a Jackery product but they aren't available in England. This would mean huge postage fees, the tax man would want a hefty wedge and the sockets wouldn't be right for the plugs on English electronics! Bob's video (here: ) first put me onto these all in one systems. They seem so simple! 



In terms items and power usage daily I should perhaps do the sums on what I think I will actually need. Should I be doing this in amp hours or watts? I'll go with amp hours because I have a better grasp of that. My understand of this is entirely based on this video, again by Bob. (Here: ) I'm sure you'll tell me if I'm doing this wrong! So here goes:


78,000 mAH = 78AH total capacity 


Lights: https://tinyurl.com/y4vsa6z4[/SIZE]

2.5 Watts divided by 12 Voults = 0.208 Amp Hours 

0.208 Amp Hours multiply by 8 hours use = 1.66 Amp Hours


Phone: (iPhone SE)

5 Watts divided by 12 Voluts = 0.42 Amp Hours

0.42 Amp Hours multiply by 3 hours charge time = 1.26 Amp Hours

1.26 Amp Hours multiply by 2 (for two charges per day) = 2.52 Amp Hours


Laptop: (Lenovo G50-80)

On the underside of the laptop it says Amps = 2.25. 2.25 Amps X 6 hours = 13.5 Amp Hours. 


Shower: https://tinyurl.com/yyjx75s9[/SIZE]

4.8 Amp Hours / 60 minutes in an hour = 0.08 Amp Hours per minute 

0.08 multiply by 15 minutes (for a 15 minute shower) = 1.2 Amp Hours  




Total Capabilities:

1.66 + 2.52 + 13.5 + 1.2 = 18.88 Amp Hour usage per day 

78 Amp Hours (total in battery) divided by 18.88 Amp Hours (amount used in a day) = 4.13 days of power. 


Using 50% charge only to preserve the battery (although I understand from other reading and a kind reply from a member above that you can deplete lithium more without causing damage) = 

78 Amp Hours divided by 2 = 39 Amp Hours

39 Amp Hours divided by 18.88[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] Amp Hours (amount used in a day) = 2.07 days of power.[/font]



[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I [/font]understand [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]that the Amp Hours of the Allpowers device is only small. But (if my calculations are correct - maybe?? Please put me right if not.) my demand is only small. I don't plan on ha[size=medium]ving anything that takes a lot to power like an electric heater, cooker or even a 12v mini fridge. I'll have a gas stove, heater and can do without a fridge as the van will only be a holiday van. I'll also be able to charge via a lead from the 12V outlet as I drive my van and can hook up to shore power if I stay for a night at a camp site.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium]That said if I find I like being in my van I may consider living in it for a year if I go back to university.At which point I'd want to install a proper propane system for cooking, space heating, and water heating. And the electric would not be good enough from the Allpowers device. [/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I guess the real question is buy something cheap and simple to install for now and risk having to upgrade in the future, or saving up the extra money and doing the hard work a[size=medium]nd [/size][/font]research now.

The cost of this Allpowers system would be:

Generator / battery pack: £220
Solar panel by Allpowers: £165 (which seems very expensive[size=medium] for a 100W panel)[/size]
MC4 to DC 5.5mm x 2.1mm cable: £10

= £395, which is about $485 USD. 


But I have no idea how that compares in terms of cost to a system where you buy batteries, an inverter, a charge controler and whatever else you need. Perhaps that's something I should look into next? 

And then there is the issue of teaching myself to install it.  

There certainly is a lot to think about!

How many Amp Hours do you think I'll need for full timing it with what I detailed above, plus running a propane heater and water heater? Whats an approximate cost of a system capable of running a set up like this? I'd only want to install an electrical system capable of running this, not actually buy a heater and water heater yet. 


[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][size=medium]Again I'd like to thank everyone of you so much for your help this far. I'd appreciate any further input any of you may have.    [/font][/size][/size]

 

[Elbear1]

If you insist on the thing take it apart and hookup your own charge controller.

All it is is a battery with an inverter and a charge controller in a fancy box. Its not hard at all to make your own and do it wayyyy better for less.

 

[AuricTech]

Unfortunately, this power station stores 78 amp-hours at 3.7 Volts.

Fortunately, given my answer to "Question 0," converting to 12V amp-hours is simple:

Since Volts times amps equals Watts, Watt-hours divided by Volts equals amp-hours.

288 Watt-hours/12V=24 amp-hours

(This is why it's generally best to use Watt-hours in your calculations, as they are voltage-agnostic.)

 

[B and C]

Your laptop is a 20V laptop. The chargers I see listed for it say 3.5 amps at 20V output.

 

[77jack77]

B and C

You see this is why I need help, so thank you for helping! I got the figure from here:





Gsfish

As you can see from this chart sunshine hours varies greatly in England with the changing of the seasons. This is why alternatives (shore power hook up and charge while driving) to solar will be important.  If we take December as an example there are 47.3 hours daylight. Divide that by 31 days and it's a pitiful 1.53 hours per day.




Elbear1

That reply has really confused me. The manufacturers state there are 78 amp hours. That sum you just did you came out with 24 amp hours. 

My understanding is that amp hours are a way to measure the total power in a battery. How can it be that what they say and that sum are different, or are they showing different things?  :s :s :s :s



ALL,

I think that I have decided that I'm going to have to be brave and create my own system. Because I'm totally out of my depth with this I am currently considering lifting and copying a system used by a fellow Brit in his van - Nate Murphy. 

The reason for considering copying his system is that he seems to have something that works, has made a few good videos (including this one:  ) and has published a book (https://www.thevanconversionguide.com/) with diagrams out how his system is wired together. I read it cover to cover last night and it all kind of makes sense and I'm sure looking it I could work out what needs to be wired to what. Hopefully I can ask on here if I do get stuck.  

A picture of this is available here, taken from the website where he sells the book. (Here: https://tinyurl.com/y2npl7f8)[/SIZE]


The system:

I'd like to run the component parts of the system past you guys first though, to see if you guys think it is appropriate.

Batteries:
Nate doesn't say which brand he has used but says that he used two 12V 140 amp hour leisure batteries wired in parallel. 
I have found a sealed 130 amp hour battery manufactured by a company called Hankook for £93.47 each. (Here: https://tinyurl.com/y6secnku) which I may use. 

Solar Panel:
Nate used this (here: https://tinyurl.com/yxlhc8et) 300 W Solar Panel. I'd like advise if this is suitable for use with the batteries I have chosen, please. This is £203.71 including £40 shipping.

MPPT Solar Charge Controller (EPEVER 40A) and MT50 Remote Control:
I found this for £139 on eBay (Here: https://tinyurl.com/y3tlxled)[/SIZE]

Invertor: EDECOA Power Inverter 1500W Pure Sine Wave DC 12V to 240V 
£175 (Here: https://tinyurl.com/yyuajze9)[/SIZE]
A quick question on this. What is the correct way to connect this to sockets on the walls? Is possible to plug a household extension lead into the sockets on the front of the inverter or do you need / is it better to wire separate wall sockets into the device via the terminals on the inverter? 

For mains in the van - Shore power RCD Extension Cable?? 
I understand this is normally done with a 240v Hook-up Kit and consumer unit. This seems overly complicated and excessively expensive way to do it when I could just buy one of these cables which has a campsite plug on one end, and 240V sockets on the other with a built in RCD for safety and protection. You could simply detach the plug, drill a hole through the floor of the van and then reattach the plug and mount it under the van. Or am I missing something critical about the benefits of a consumer unit? The run a cable from the hook up point under the van to the campsite socket. 

RCD Extension: (Here: https://tinyurl.com/y6bdg73d) £39.95
Camp Cable: (Here: https://tinyurl.com/y26r535l) £17.99


Split Charge Relay Kit:
(Here: https://tinyurl.com/y3x7xpgz) £66
This says that it is suitable for batteries to 220 Amp Hour batteries. The ones I am looking at are 130 Amp Hours each, so 260 Amp Hours in total. Therefore does this mean that the system with the batteries and the relay will be unsafe / damaging to each other or will it just take longer to charge? Do I need to look for a different relay or go for smaller batteries?


Charging from the mains hook up:
I'm a little unsure how you do this? Do you use something like an automatic battery charger? I'm unsure if this is really needed when I intend the van to be my day to day car. Anyway, this is what I was thinking of using. It's 12 Volts  / 7 amps
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif](Here: [/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]https://tinyurl.com/y3wl5xqe) £99[/font]


Fuse box:
ODIAL 12 Way Blade Fuse Box £11.82 (Here: https://tinyurl.com/y2s7gblg)[/SIZE]


LED Lights:
Vega 48 Recessed 12V LED Downlight - 0.4W (Here: https://tinyurl.com/y5syxjrl) £8.90 each - Probably want 6?


Light Switches, 12 V, USB Charging, and 240 V Sockets:
LED Switches (Here: https://tinyurl.com/y56fh9zv) X5 for £3.00
1 X LED Dimmer Switch (Here: https://tinyurl.com/yxrh7zbl) £7.99
2 X 12 V / USB Sockets (Here: https://tinyurl.com/y69u3b82) £6.75 each 
2 X 240 V Sockets (Here: https://tinyurl.com/y6srcvgd) £12.99 each. 


Creating this list took quite a long time. And everything on it adds up to a £1,076.40 or $1324.55 USD. But I think I have included everything except for wire?

To try and reduce this I could leave out some things, perhaps the mains batter charger - saving £99. This would still leave the charge relay as back up from the solar and I plan to drive it almost every day because I'm going to sell my car to part fund this project so the benefits of it may be minimal? 

What do you guys think of this list / system? Will it work, what's good / bad? Is it about right price wise? 

I guess the next stage is to try and draw a diagram of how this is all hooked up. That's going to be the hard part!


Thanks again to all that have been kind enough to comment and help so far. It's appreciated! 

 

[AuricTech]

Amp-hours are tied to voltage, so just as 78 amp-hours at 3.7 Volts is 288 Watt-hours, 24 amp-hours at 12 Volts is also 288 Watt-hours.

 

[Elbear1]

In other words theyre trying to make it sound better than it is by muddling the language.

 

[77jack77]

In other words theyre trying to make it sound better than it is by muddling the language.

I guessed as much. Thankfully you guys have pointed that out.

Because of this I've pretty much decided I'm going to have to build a system myself. Perhaps based n the system I described above, but I don't know if that's any good or not. Lots of things to look up. Takes a while because I know next to nothing about electrics...

 

[Elbear1]

Not much to know. Get a battery. Hook up the inverter to it. Red to positive black to negative. Get a charge controller and do the same. Then you will plug the solar panel into the charge controller.

 

[77jack77]

Thanks, Elbear1. The more I look into it the more it seems like its something I can do. I think the issue is more about having the confidence and knowing what you're doing is safe.

At the moment I'm drawing a wiring up schematic. I'm trying to find out what sort / thickness of wire I would need to make the two 12V 130AH batteries parallel. I think I'm getting there. Twenty minutes ago I didn't know that you joined the batteries + to + and - to - to do this. I'm teaching myself a lot, and I'm actually enjoying it.

Finding out about this cable for joining the batteries is harder though. I'm currently reading that it depends on what size invertor you have. The one in my list is 1500W. But I'm not sure what size wire that means I be using to join the batteries or run between the invertor and the 240V sockets.

 

[B and C]

The inverter you showed comes with the correct size cable.  Use that.

Using this for your laptop would be much better: Car Charger


You wouldn't have the double conversion loss of 12V to 230V back to 20V.  It would be one conversion of 12V to 20V.  Much better.