Help Designing 200 Watt System

[akrvbob]

The Flex panels may now be gone. This is everything I know:

I have a friend who bought three of the flex panels and the all literally had a hole burned into them from the sun. He sent them back to Renogy and Renogy said they wouldn't send him any back and instead sent him the hard framed ones.

My guess is they have found a fatal flaw and are off the market until they find a solution.

That is strictly a guess but I don't think you are going to be seeing any more soon.
Bob

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

from WTW 18 August, 2015, post 106:
 http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/10725-electrical-confusion/page-11

[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Renogy would like to apologize for any issues that have been experienced with our bendable units. We have been working diligently on figuring out a solution on how to fix them. They were put out of stock temporarily while we did more research.[/font]
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]From what we have gathered, it is likely that excessive bending is causing issues in the panels. The bend can crack the solar cell which builds local heat on the crack, especially when it gets too hot. This can potentially lead to a failure in the panel. Another reason for failure can be caused by lack of air circulation under the panel.[/font]
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]We are bringing our new design to the market that will prevent any of these issues. As for those that currently have a unit currently, things should be fine as long as you have air circulation and do not bend the module too much.[/font]
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Thank you,[/font]
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Renogy Team[/font]

-- Spiff

 

[B and C]

I'll wait a while for the Renogy panels.  Grape Solar has a similar panel (Photo Flex 100 W) with similar specs and they are in stock although at almost $300 a panel are a little pricier (~$50 a panel).  I'll get the grunt work done on installing the charge controller (when it comes in) and wait 'till I can wait no longer.  

Thanks everyone for your help on this.

Brian

 

[jimindenver]

Eco-worthy has flex panels for $235/100w.

http://www.eco-worthy.com/catalog/w...rystalline-solar-panel-solar-cells-p-192.html

 

[Renogy]

Renogy rep want to answer 2 of these questions that the calculators ask for?

These are for your 100W bendable panels:


 
Temperature C°   F°  

PV Module Data (STC)
(Found on back of module or spec sheet)

Power (Watts) 100
VOC (Open Circuit Voltage) 21.7
VMP (Maximum Power Point Voltage) 17.7
ISC (Short Circuit Amperage) 6.1
IMP (Maximum Power Point Amperage) 5.7
VOC Temperature Coefficient C° ? -0.33% Default
VMP Temperature Coefficient C° ? -0.45% Default

Environmental Data

Coldest Ambient Temp F° 22
Hottest Ambient Temp F° 104
Nominal Battery Voltage (Volts) 12

PV Array

Number Of Modules In Series 4
Number Of Parallel Strings 1

Total Modules 4
 Submit Parameters Reset

Hi there Brian,

Sorry about the belated reply. According to our manufacturing specs the VOC Temperature Coefficient is -0.28%/°C and the VMP Temperature Coefficient is -0.40%/°C. Please let us know if you need anything else. Also, we are indeed working on a new design for the lightweight panels. If you'd like, we can definitely give you a heads up on when they'll be back on the market. Hope you are all well.

All the best,
The Renogy Team

 

[B and C]

Eco-worthy has flex panels for $235/100w.

http://www.eco-worthy.com/catalog/w...rystalline-solar-panel-solar-cells-p-192.html

Thanks for the suggestion.  Those are too wide to fit where I want to stow them.

Brian

 

[B and C]

Well, the Midnite Kid arrived this week.    Yesterday I got the frame for it mounted (small step).  While looking the Kid over, I find the cable connections will only handle a 10Ga wire and are very close together :huh:  I guess that 10Ga at 30 amps is what it was designed for.  No long runs.  There is no way to cut some of the strands off the 6Ga cable and get them to fit side by side in the connectors.  They are small.  

I am in a small town and there is not any 10Ga extension cord or bulk type wiring to be had (plenty of 12Ga).  Tomorrow I will go to Lowes and get a short 10Ga extension cable with the plugs already connected.  A 25 footer is probably the shortest they will have.  I will cut the male end off about 2 feet long and connect it to a Bussmann circuit breaker (15 amps) and from there run it to the charge controller using the white wire for 12v and the green wire for ground (kinda keeps with the 110v green wire ground theme) and capping the black wire.  From the charge controller I will need another 1 to 1 1/2 feet to get to a battery connection and the shunt.  This will be run through a 30 amp Bussmann circuit breaker.  This will leave me about 20 feet to connect to the solar panels.  This would be plenty long if I hang the panels from the awning or lay them on top of the awning.  Now I am getting concerned about having ~70 feet of cable for laying them on the ground :dodgy:   I guess I will try it this way and if I run into problems, I will buy another 25 foot extension cord for a total of ~45 feet and not use the 50 footer or add another panel.   If no 25 footer (or shorter) I will buy 10 feet of 10Ga bulk cable and put my own ends on it.  
Best laid plans of mice and men :angel:

I thought I had it straight in my head; but I am now confused (doesn't take much these days) sigh*  Which side of the shunt do I connect the output of the charge controller to?  Do I connect it to the load side (where the battery negative is connected) or to the chassis ground?  My first thought is it needs to be connected to the chassis ground so the shunt can "see" the amperage flowing to the battery.

Thanks for your continued support.

 

[B and C]

I went to Lowe's looking for the 25 Ft. 10 Ga extension cord.  No joy, they only had a 100 footer (~$150, ouch).  I ended up buying 10 feet of 10/3 extension cord type cable and a male, female pair of connectors (~$31, better).  I will start the wiring when I get home tonight. 

Still no input on where to connect the ground out of the charge controller?  Maybe I am not the only one confused. :huh:  I will hook it to the chassis ground on the shunt to start with.  It can't hurt anything and my Trimetric will tell me if I have it right or wrong as soon as I get some panels.

 

[akrvbob]

Sorry, I've never worked with a shunt so I can't help.

I just bought enough solar that I never have to worry about it being too discharged.
Bob

 

[Sabatical]

I went to Lowe's looking for the 25 Ft. 10 Ga extension cord.  No joy, they only had a 100 footer (~$150, ouch).  I ended up buying 10 feet of 10/3 extension cord type cable and a male, female pair of connectors (~$31, better).  I will start the wiring when I get home tonight. 

Still no input on where to connect the ground out of the charge controller?  Maybe I am not the only one confused. :huh:  I will hook it to the chassis ground on the shunt to start with.  It can't hurt anything and my Trimetric will tell me if I have it right or wrong as soon as I get some panels.

Is the kidd manual any help? If not their tech support is awesome. Might be worth a phone call.

 

[jimindenver]

Your battery is grounded to the frame right? So will your charge controller when you connect it to the battery. In a off grid none moving situation you would run the ground to pipe in the ground.

You could still run it to the frame if you wanted.

 

[highdesertranger]

you want to connect the ground so that it will read amps in. so on the opposite side that the batteries connect to. this whole using extension cord still has me asking, why? I m not convinced. you got a 3 wire cable so basically you are wasting one wire, correct? you could get 2 wires for cheaper, unless the wire you are using is not copper. 2 ten ft pieces of automotive copper wire is not that expensive. even the zip cable would be cheaper. I don't know, I am not convinced. tell me where I am wrong. highdesertranger

 

[B and C]

you want to connect the ground so that it will read amps in.  so on the opposite side that the batteries connect to.  this whole using extension cord still has me asking,  why?  I m not convinced.  you got a 3 wire cable so basically you are wasting one wire,  correct?  you could get 2 wires for cheaper,  unless the wire you are using is not copper.  2 ten ft pieces of automotive copper wire is not that expensive.  even the zip cable would be cheaper.  I don't know,  I am not convinced.  tell me where I am wrong.  highdesertranger

My battery ground is connected to one side of the shunt and chassis ground is attached to the other side.  Thanks for confirming I am not totally losing my mind   I will attach the output from the charge controller negative to the chassis ground side of the shunt.  That was my original reasoning.

I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong.  This is just two different approaches to accomplish the same thing.  Two pieces of automotive copper wire is just that, two pieces and will be flat even if zip tied and taped together.  A bulk cable extension cord may have an extra unused conductor in it; but it is one piece with an abrasion resistant cover, round and very flexible.  The end from the solar panels will be getting pulled on each time it is used.  A single solid sheath is easier to put a strain relief on IMO.  Much easier to manage and to me is worth the couple of extra dollars.  From the charge controller to the battery will require 3 wires.  The Kid has a ground lug that is supposed to be grounded and it will be ground to the chassis.  The batteries, ground and shunt are on the other side of a marine grade plywood wall.  This sheath will be my "penetration grommet" and a little cable management.

Does this explain my reasoning well enough or is there something I am missing.

 

[Canine]

I may be missing something(it's happened before)but why would you ground to the chassie unless you are using it for your negative?

 

[B and C]

The Kid has a ground lug on the case that requires a ground for code.  This will be connected to the chassis.  There is also a shunt between the battery negative and chassis ground.  The shunt is used to measure amps in/out of the batteries.  The negative output wire from the Kid will have to be connected to the shunt for measurement of the amps in/out of the batteries.  The shunt is part of the Trimetric battery monitor and is required for it to work.  A lot of complex wiring.  If it was just solar panels, charge controller and batteries, easy peasy. I have purposely left out all the other "noise" as it would only serve to confuse the installation/help.  The noise is battery charging from a Progressive Dynamics converter/charger (either shore or generator connected), alternator charging and a latching solenoid to disconnect the batteries from the rest of the system.  Geez, it's a wonder that my little pea brain ain't more scrambled.

 

[Canine]

Holy Sh$t,Sorry I asked.HA.

 

[B and C]

@ AnSmith.  What is the Paris Airport Transportation link you inserted into my post for?


How does the "[font='Open Sans', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Keysight 200W, GPIB, single output 6642A" help me with this solar setup?[/font]

 

[B and C]

It’s probably going to take me as long to document and post this as it did to do the actual install.  I am a two finger typist now after graduating from a hunt-n-pecker.  That doesn’t sound just right.  I should have taken typing in High School but that was for the girls going for secretary jobs back then.  I think they are called assistants today.  Nor am I a technical writer like GR.

The weather finally cooperated this weekend.  It is only in the mid 80’s with cool mornings instead of the mid 90’s.  So onward with the install of the charge controller!


Install location in outside storage compartment (13” tall)

[font=Calibri, sans-serif]The location for the charge controller:  The big white thing on the left is the fuel filler.  On the other side of the plywood is my power center.  It contains my Progressive Dynamics PD4635V that replaced the garbage Magnatek that came with the Roadtrek along with the transfer switch for shore/generator power, latching solenoid to disconnect the batteries, shunt for the Trimetric 2025 battery monitor and some Bussmann circuit breakers.[/font]

[font=Calibri, sans-serif][/font]
[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Location for new Bussmann circuit breaker by shunt in power center[/font]

The power center location under the floor of the closet is narrow and has a wheel well in it.  Mounting the circuit breaker by the shunt was difficult given everything around it and small screws.  The Midnite Kid is installed on the other side of the wall on the opposite side of this location.  There is more room on the other wall but by the time I got to install the hookup on this side I was getting tired and did not make the best choice in mounting location for the circuit breaker.


Mounting bracket & circuit breaker installed/wired

I mounted the Kid’s mounting bracket and the circuit breaker.  I stripped the sheath off the end of the cable exposing about a foot of conductors and cut off the black (110v hot) wire.  I measured the distance to get from the mounting bracket to the circuit breaker and again ringed the cable sheath.  I slid this section of sheath down the already exposed conductors exposing about 4 inches of the conductors in between sections of sheath.  I only cut the hot wire to put lugs on for the circuit breaker leaving the ground wire untouched so there would not be another splice.


Cover mounted and strain relief added

The lugs were a little too long for the shallow box cover that I bought to cover the circuit breaker.  I had to grind the studs down so they would fit underneath it.  I drilled holes in each side of the blue box and cut them to make a U shape to pass the power cords through.  I drilled holes to pass the 10Ga extension cable through and for the battery temperature sensor into the power center.  I love those stepped drill bits from Harbor Freight.  The leading edge of the next step up from the hole size you want makes it a chamfered hole.  I put a ½ inch conduit bracket over the extension cord that is going to have the 110V male plug attached to it for a strain relief.


Male plug installed

I connected the white wire of the extension cord to the silver screw for the flat blade of the male plug.  This is where neutral normally connects on a 110v system.  I connected the green wire to the U shaped ground blade.  It also has a silver screw.  I left the copper screw connection blank as this is where the black 110v hot wire connects to when used.  I hand labeled the plug “Solar Panel” on both sides with a sharpie.

 

[B and C]

Continued:


Penetrations for power and battery temp cables

At this point I ran the 10Ga extension cord and the battery temperature sensor through the wall.  


Connected wiring to the Kid

I made the connections to the Kid. The 10Ga wire barely fit in those holes.  No way was cutting strands out of the 6Ga tinned stranded copper wire I was planning to use would fit.  The lugs are too close together.  The black ground wire is barely visible in this picture.  In this picture it is connected to the cases ground lug at the top of the picture.


Installed the back cover on the Kid

I then installed the back cover on the Kid.  I think this cover is more for a RFI shield than anything else.  The Kid is upside down as the cables are cut short enough to fit inside the mounting bracket with the Kid installed.  They have to be folded to fit below the Kid in its’ mounting bracket.


Storage area Completed

This shows the completed install in the under storage area.


Completed wiring in power center

I mounted the circuit breaker between the shunt and the latching solenoid.  At the time I was thinking short wire runs and ended up having to work left handed.  I connect both the case ground and the Kid’s output ground to the chassis side of the shunt using the black and green wires in the extension cord.  I wired the white 12v output wire to the solenoid on the side that would disconnect it from the batteries when the battery disconnect switch was activated inside the Roadtrek.  Looks like I forgot to put red tape on the hot wire at the solenoid end.  Oh well, it will stay this way until the next time I have to open the compartment.

 

[B and C]

Continued:


Finished and powered on

Now I am just waiting on the bendable 100W panels from Renogy to be available again so I can program this thing.