Gear research

[sadarahu]

I'm 60 yrs o, and done lots of traditional camping and hiking but now interested in changing the lifestyle and joining the community. This site and forum seems to be fantastic resource.

Although I'm kinda handy man (not a mechanic) I'm not very familiar with matching truck campers with pickup trucks. Planning to get either TRAVEL LITE or LIVIN LITE camper and one of the following trucks:
1. Toyota Tacoma (extended cab)
2. Nissan Frontier (king cab)
3. Ford F150

most likely it will be used nr.1 OR nr.2

I want a camper with the shower (do not care about the toilet, black water tank etc.). After doing some research I narrowed down the list to two campers although there is significant difference in price.
1. LIVING LITE (here is an example of Camp Light 2013 camper)
2. TRAVEL LITE  model 770RSL
http://travellitecampers.com/truck-campers/travel-lite-super-lite-floor-plans/

I would like to ask any of you who ever used any of those on a 1/2ton truck ?  Is this duable, safe, efficient etc. what are your opinions ?

I'm also open to any other suggestions for camper trucks with the shower that will fit small pickups like I listed above.
Thank you. :huh:


Art

 

[highdesertranger]

IMO both of those campers is to big and heavy for the trucks you listed. but others might say you are fine. see what others say. BTW go to the Newcomers corner and introduce yourself and get a official welcome. highdesertranger

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

They're too heavy for those trucks listed. I know others will say otherwise, but you're at or over max before you even add any personal gear, people, food, etc. Even if you add extra suspension or airbags to make it ride better, it still doesn't allow you to carry more weight.......technically it adds less weight as you now have to subtract the weight of the additional components you added.

I'd go with a 3/4 ton pick up for the slide in's you're interested in.

 

[sadarahu]

They're too heavy for those trucks listed.  I know others will say otherwise, but you're at or over max before you even add any personal gear, people, food, etc.  Even if you add extra suspension or airbags to make it ride better, it still doesn't allow you to carry more weight.......technically it adds less weight as you now have to subtract the weight of the additional components you added.    

I'd go with a 3/4 ton pick up for the slide in's you're interested in.

Thank you for opinions.
How about this one ? have seen this video and this camper is loaded on TACOMA.  
  I'm not sure if we can trust Living Lite after watching this on YouTube.

I haven't researched 3/4ton trucks, not sure if can afford it. I guess it will still be worth doing some research. Any recommendations (my concern is: 4WD, high ground clearance, god MPG) ?

Art

 

[highdesertranger]

I feel you are going to overload any of those trucks on your list with an overhead camper with amenities. overloading a semi-floating rear axle seldom ends well. I also feel gas mileage is going to be compromised with the overhead. also the center of gravity is going to be to high for the soft suspension of those trucks as in cornering will be scary. I feel for an overhead camper a 3/4 ton is minimal. my 2 cents. highdesertranger

 

[bullfrog]

Check out the teardrops and tiny trailers forum foamies section to see a home made topper on a Tacoma that a young fellow has lived in for almost a year. Even that needed overload springs but it is a 4 cylinder and does fine. A shower with pressurized water, heater, tanks and etc. weighs a lot as well as takes up space. Most truck campers use the area past the end of the truck bed, some extended several feet, for the bathroom, so 3/4 at a minimum and 1 ton for the larger ones is best. We used a tent for showers but now have built a small trailer with a shower which we were able to pull with a Tacoma. A hot shower is great but is a lot of work.

 

[hangtownmatt]

Art, take a look at Capri Campers.  They have a couple different models (Cowboy & Retreat).  You can start with a shell and add from there.  This will allow you to control the weight of your camper.

Matt

 

[TexasWoman]

Or you can learn how to do a good sponge bath and forget about the shower ...
So much easier than hauling and heating all that water.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Thank you for opinions.
How about this one ?         have seen this video and this camper is loaded on TACOMA.  
  I'm not sure if we can trust Living Lite after watching this on YouTube.

I haven't researched 3/4ton trucks, not sure if can afford it. I guess it will still be worth doing some research.  Any recommendations (my concern is: 4WD, high ground clearance, god MPG) ?

Art

I think he was probably over the Tacoma's payload between the camper's weight, his gear's weight and his weight.  I know people that do it everyday,  but it's going to put premature wear on the trucks drive train and suspension components and in today's world my biggest fear would be if you got in an accident and were overloaded it would be or could be a huge ordeal to see your way through.  

I'm not sure there is any such thing as good mpg with a 4wd and a cab over camper in the back.  Diesel would get you your best mpg's, but that's going to add to your upfront cost as well.  Are you looking for new trucks or used trucks?  My biggest regret was buying a half ton pick up brand new in 2013.  At the time I was pretty sick and thought my needing a heavier duty truck days were long over.  A new 3/4 ton could have been had for nearly the same price and with out fail, I need more truck every few weeks.  Now i'm debating if I should just trade it in and go bigger.  I have no payment and would have to go to a payment again, but i'm thinking it might be worth it in the long run.  I haven't looked at the used market in awhile, but I think you'd be able to find some 1/2 tons and 3/4 tons of comparable years and mileage in the same ballpark.

My one advantage to the 1/2 ton is i'm averaging 19mpg. That's with no camper or anything in tow. If I go to the same truck in a 3/4 ton I think i'm going to drop to 12 or 13. Another option is go with a lighter camper if you want to stick to a 1/2 ton. Skip the wet bath and do outdoor showers or showers at truck stops, campgrounds, laundromats, gyms, etc.

 

[bullfrog]

Every Road Leads Home I am in the same shape. It is possible to build a camper light weight enough but it will be at the limits of the truck and expensive. Fuel prices are a concern for me but so are construction costs. I also hate heavy diesel motored vehicles as I tend to get them stuck off road and in 4 wheel drive payload with the heavy duty recovery gear just makes it worst. I worked on diesel school buses with computer controlled auto transmissions which got 10 to 11 MPG and often thought of chopping one into a pickup and building a camper but if you ever stuck one It would probably have to stay there and the cost of tires is outrageous. I have a Tacoma 4 x 4 and built a camper that was as light as I felt comfortable with but once loaded and a bathroom added ended up putting it on a trailer and even then the trailer should have probably been aluminum to lower the tow weight. MPG dropped to 15 to 18 MPG towing and 20 when unhooked loaded or 23 completely unloaded. I will probably eventually get a large car hauler mount the camper on it and still have enough room for a VW buggy to use as an around camp vehicle and pull it with my old 1979 Jeep truck and get 10 MPG towing or not, sort of a poor man's open toy hauler if I'm lucky. Gearing on the Jeep keeps highway speeds below 60 MPH so maybe an overdrive.

 

[sadarahu]

Thank you guys for all replies and suggestions. I guess by doing so we all keep learning.
I've been camping quite a lot in the past. I have gone to many remote places but most of the time it was by my regular car, hiking or on my inflatable boat. Also have tested lots of different options and hear related to ultralight camping. I have never however owned a camper and that this is s part new to me. With the limited budget I can only do what I can.  Van is not an option because I will not drive around with all gear while I'm settled in some area for few months. Yes possibly I could use a bike but I also eventually consider a small scooter, motor bike etc (or course this would require bigger rig).

I consider several setup combinations and options and of course all of them will be some kind of trade offs. Having said that here are some features and trade offs I see in my setup. This will be one person setup only (unless I find a girlfriend to join me - haha).

-------------------------
1. 200W solar panel
2. Light bicycle
3. No microwave
4. No TV
5. Front grill where I can mount my bike (for better weight balance). If not bike then I could perhaps put some other heavier item.
6. Extra batteries sitting in a cab (I only consider Extended cab truck, no other options)
7. Air bags (of course)
8. Possibly extra sway bars for better stability
9. Small aluminum roof rack (for extra temporary storage)
10. Ladder or some kind of roof access
11. Must have storage to small inflatable kayak etc.
12. I must be able to leave the camper and drive around so options are: A-use truck B-use scooter C- use bike, electric bike etc
13. I must be self sustained for longer period of time (i.e 1+ month) without shopping for food. I consider small food dehydrator. Will also probably install extra solar freezer.
14. Space for power generator (optional)
15. I'm buying Water Filter and Water Distiller so would not have to carry drinking water (or just minimal amount).

Now the question to all of you. Does anybody know of any place I could buy a camper frame/shell without any internal finish, so I can do interior myself. God example here would be a Livin Lite camper, which is 100% aluminum, although wooden frames would be OK as well. My idea is to get a plain frame-shell and build it precisely to my needs with ultralight materials. When I look i.e at Travel Lite campers, they are light but I could easily shave off 20% of weight by removing stuff I do not need. For example why would I use such a big bed for 1 person ? Why would I carry TV, Micro if I don't want it. Also the cabinets are made of a heavy material (wood has never been light although easy to build).

If I would be a little younger I would probably start a business selling camper building kits so everyone can build camper from blocks and suit more precisely to the needs. Quality of Travel Lite campers is also rather poor (but they give what we pay for so I did not expect to much for $13.000).

I recently bought Mr.Heater on demand shower so this could possibly solve the shower options. I also have ultralight shower tent which folds out in 30sec. The problem is that if I go farther north (in fall or even a winder for few weeks) and need to use it while there is 30 deg or less outside it will not be really much fun. For the last 20 years of traveling shower was always my biggest concern. I have 4 portable showers (from pocket one to Zodi heated container) but all of them will not really work in a cold weather. I was considering setting up my portable shower tent then using Mr.Heater (heater) to warm up the inside and use Mr.Heater On-Demand shower, but not sure how this would work (probably until I try such setup). Toilet is not an issue for me at all I am not concern abut this part at all. I definitely prefer to have an indoor shower over the toilet.

As far as cars. I switched 1 1/2 yr ago from Toyota Yaris to Subaru Forester. My Yaris was barely smelling the gas (with 35 MPG). Forester is OK (with 23 MPG) but going down to 12 mpg ?  Not sure if I would like to spend so much, especially I don't think I would be sitting in one place for 6+ months like many folks do.

I definitely cannot afford to buy new equipment. I am aiming for a camper no older then 5 years (preferably 1-2) and a truck in a price range of $10-15 grand. I have seen on line that some ofr the F150's can have  about 2700LB payload. Here are the specs for a new one
So as far as fuel 16-18 mpg is for me acceptable but 12 mpg is rather not (unless I'm sharing cos with somebody).

Perhaps it could be a god idea to start some kind of open project and create plans for DIY camper where people could do multiple designs based on the same frame. Finding a manufacturer of such frames should not be so hard. I'm planning to check with Travel Lite and Living Late if they have any unfurnished options of those campers available. Perhaps another option would be to buy older used camper, take it apart and completely remodel it but I'm not sure if this would be money efficient (making much savings).

 

[highdesertranger]

you can get Capri campers in I believe Texas or Oklahoma, also Bel Air campers in California. the both sell campers that are empty inside.

keep in mind you can never make a 1/2 ton into a 3/4 ton. it doesn't matter what you do. a F-150 has more in common with a T-Bird then a F-250.

even with water filters you still need to carry water. if you were to break down or get stuck far away from water and didn't have an emergency supply you would be in trouble. IMO you should have a minimum of 10 gallons with you at all times.

highdesertranger

 

[Vern]

keep in mind you can never make a 1/2 ton into a 3/4 ton.  it doesn't matter what you do.  a F-150 has more in common with a T-Bird then a F-250. 

^^^^
Amen to this... I had a spasm and bought a '16 F150... Best CAR I've ever had. Put ANY trailer behind it and the mileage goes to hell... I'm talking from 20+ empty to 10-11 babying it with an empty 6x12 cargo trailer. It's gonna be sold in the spring and I'm going to go back to my old 6.9 IDI F250. Worst it's ever got was 14 dragging a 5k travel trailer. Plus I can work on the old one! The Bel-air people are really nice, I talked to them allot before I decided to go with a cargo trailer.

Vern

 

[bullfrog]

Take a look at tntt trailer forums. They are devoted to building custom designs as well as reviving old fool proof methods that have worked for years. If you want lite weight look at the foamies section.

 

[bacawho]

Go to Wander The West .com.I have a ATC Bobcat shell on my 2011 Tacoma 4x4 it weighs 700# empty.I added air bags and an add a leaf and it works great.I agree though that most cabover campers are too heavy for a 1x2 ton truck.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

For all the knocking I do on 1/2 ton trucks with slide in campers I probably should have disclosed I owned one and used it on my 1/2 ton. It was a Caribou Outfitter with the pop top. When it was empty the truck handled it pretty well. Once I added water, gear, propane, generator, etc, it made a big difference and it wasn't comfortable to drive it on long hauls. I used it for a year and sold it. I also hated the pop top, fine if you were setting up camp for a week or longer, huge pain for one and two night stops.

I was going to recommend the belair campers that hdr mentioned for anyone looking for a lightweight shell to build out the say you want. You can also buy large fiberglass shells, I know there's a member Telcobilly here who built out one pretty nice and it's on his Tacoma. Here's the link to his build thread, but looks like his photobucket photos aren't working in the thread, at least on my computer they arent.
https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=10680

Someday i'd love to build my own truck camper shell from scratch, I'd love to do it on a one ton truck with a flatbed, so i'm not losing all the wheel well space in the build/design. I think that's the ultimate adventure vehicle platform, then you can have 4wd too.

 

[Scott7022]

Sadarahu

I don't know what your budget is but Tuf Port makes very high quality lite shells for the mobile emergency industry. These things get abused in the oil fields and stand up for ten plus years. You can get them to fit 5.5 to 8 foot beds, in three height sizes. They start at around 9000 for a tall one, the one I am considering and got pricing for. But that is Canuck Bucks so 24% discount for the Amero. Link here. The ambulance units are big money, but they must be certified to withstand a rollover accident by Transport Canada. The sportsman shells are what you want to look at and they will cut it to fit whatever box you end up with.
http://www.tufport.com/

 

[sadarahu]

Thanks for your tips guys! I really appreciate sharing all this.
One of the things I would definitely need are the legs so I can lift up the camper and drive around. I briefly looked up the TufPort and those campers look interesting however I'm not sure if I could possibly mount the legs on in and not sure how the internal is build (pictures are minimal). I was thinking about buying a plain camper with the basic frame/shell. Kind of like LIVIN LITE campers then build the interior the way I want. So far all designs I've seen have lots of extra stuff I would never need or use. Also most of the campers claim to be light but they still use not so light (or at least not the lightest materials). For example if I would travel alone I do not need a queen bed, neither tv, microweave or internal toilet, although I would love to have a shower. I also plan to stay for some time in clod and hot weather so insulation, cooling etc are quite important to me. That is also a reason to have internal shower. Like majority of us I'm very limited on budget and I'm saving now to get what I want. I have a choice of saving and preparing for another 2-3 years until I get exactly what I want or do it bit faster and having compromises.
Looking that Will/Bob video and the price ($14k) he asked to the camper/truck I could probably afford to get something similar next summer. I took a look at F250 trucks and they keep high price even with 200k miles on them. So on average there is a cost of around $20k just for the truck then $10-15 for the camper. This would be out of my range for ate least 2-3 years until I could get this. I quit using any type of credit or financing long ago (do not even use Credit Cards) so buying and paying off is rather not an option unless it is small amount (ie. less than $5k) so I can pay it off quickly. I also know that bigger truck will generate much more cost in fuel, insurance and maintenance and that was the reason to consider 1/2t pickup.
Ive been on few trips with my passenger car and got stuck so I already know the pain and would rather have 4WD. I switched for Subaru forester now so I'm more comfortable on my short trips and could go many more locations but since I'm thinking about getting married to the mother nature I need a little bit more of comfort. Remembering my old Toyota 4Runner I know those are cars we can really trust, although always expensive.

I have sent an Email to Living Lite with the question if they could offer a plain camper for sale. Now - waiting for reply....

The shells you guys suggested are very nice for short trips but I could not live in it full time. I'm eventually consider VAN instead and doing conversion myself. I'm 60yo and work on the field as IT contractor but work only part time (for numerous reasons). I think if I move to the RV/Van I still should be able to find work all over the country for few weeks then spend some time traveling and resting then working again and so on. One advantage of van is that I could stay close to work for few days unnoticed and then move on. The only consideration is again the price and no off-road capability. I'm not so sure if with my age I would want to go so much to remote locations but even the piece of mind that I do not get stuck alone far away from civilization seems to be very attractive. Well - the best solution would be to win a lottery ;-)

Does anybody know if there are any (on a budget) 4WD vans with high ground clearance ?
I'm eventually considering Dodge-Promaster (high top). They look interesting, get god MPG and are big enough. I watched some conversion videos and this one is so far one of my favorite. I could not however find yet any reviews ho this van performs on unpaved roads etc.

 

[sadarahu]

Sorry but this FORUM setup pisses me off. It does not allow to make any changes or updates to the post after 15 min. I really see no reason for this.  Not being able to see the buttons for advanced editing in initial post also sucks. Whoever is the Admin should go and change this....

 

[DLTooley]

Buying an old camper that is trashed inside and stripping same would be an option. A box truck or van fits those specs as well. A removable box on a 4x4 pickup chassis is a reach, but carrying a scooter or e-bike inside one is not.

Do consider the use of outside space in your plans. You want a spot to hunker down in for bad weather, but most of the time living outside is nice. A solar shower is worth a separate thread to consider fully but they work well. In cooler temps you'll end up showering mid-late afternoon. In the 50's that's not bad. If it is only getting up to 30 your water supply will freeze solid and it is definitely time to head south. I do like cooler temps as well and I'll usually hike in the morning to warm up, then 'chill' in the afternoon sun.