Fridge or freezer?

[surfmore72]

Fridge or freezer? ... Pick only one and why... 
My thoughts are this (granted I'm a noob)... 
I don't think I have enough room for both seperate units to be installed along the walls,  and the fridge with small freezer doesn't have enough room for frozen goods and ice... So what if I get a 12v freezer and a nice cooler for refrigerator and refreeze water bottles for the cooler...? 
Thoughts?

 

[highdesertranger]

the 12v units are either/or, so they can be used either way. my first choice would be to use it as a fridge. highdesertranger

 

[blars]

A well insulated cooler will take almost as much room as a second 12v fridge/freezer. They do make two-section ones with separate thermostats, you can use the larger section as a freezer if you want.

 

[Almost There]

I agree - if you've got room for a cooler, you've got room for a second unit to use as either the fridge or the freezer.

I run with 2 - 65 qt Whynter units, one on as a a fridge, the other set at freezer temperature.

I will tell you though that the one set at freezer temp is a bit of a power hog. I can run just the fridge on my 450 amp hour battery set up for at least 3 days without running the batteries low. With the freezer in the mix - one overnight and then time to charge the batteries. I'd estimate that it takes 4 or 5 times the power to keep the freezer at 0 F than the fridge at 40 F.

I looked at the combination units but both the sections were too small for my needs.

You may have to think outside the box in planning where to fit 2 units. I have one (freezer) on a slide out tray under the kitchen counter and the other one under the bed which has a hinged lift for access.

 

[Willy]

I've gone the dual unit route too, with a Waeco CF-50 set up as a fridge and an Engel MT-40 as a freezer. This way, if one packs it in I still have the other. ..Willy.

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

Fridge or freezer? ... Pick only one and why... 
My thoughts are this (granted I'm a noob)... 
I don't think I have enough room for both seperate units to be installed along the walls,  and the fridge with small freezer doesn't have enough room for frozen goods and ice... So what if I get a 12v freezer and a nice cooler for refrigerator and refreeze water bottles for the cooler...? 
Thoughts?

Here's my current plan (TL/DR-freezer w/cooler can add another compressor type later when budget allows)

I'm looking at 45-60 liter Dometic or Whynter etc. I already have a Yeti knockoff. I've seen ice packs that look like big bubble wrap filled with water that you lay across the top of cooler for insulation and cooling. Small water bottles aren't much thermal mass but they should suffice for cooling what little I need cooled and they should freeze easily.

Every morning I will swap ice packs from cooler to freezer and freezer to cooler. I will pull out anything from the freezer that I need for the day, close everything up and try not to get in the freezer again. Unless I'm being lazy and cook a frozen dinner or have ice cream I only get in my freezer once a day typically as it is.

Here in S&B's I routinely cook for one so I've got the buying in bulk and processing for freezing down. I do use a fair amount of plastic bags but portioning meat, freezing it quickly then bagging it makes a lot of sense. I can pull out a piece of pork side meat for beans for lunch and a chicken breast for dinner, swap the packs and close it up and I don't see much of a reason to open it again until the next morning. Once the contents are frozen I don't think expecting it to freeze a 20 once bottle and a 10x16 inch ice blanket over night is expecting too much. 

If I'm on the road and the freezer is empty I can simply use it as a fridge.


If I'm filling the cooler and the freezer at the same time dry ice becomes useful for quickly freezing portioned meat and the ice packs.  (A group effort to build a freezer box and a trip to the local meat counter could fill everyones freezers with hard frozen meat or pre-made meals. Since I will be buying foam core for insulation and screen for the windows I'm thinking I will make a collapsable ridged foam core box made of a sandwich of lacquer/screen/foam core\screen\lacquer. I can think of several uses for such a box right off the top of my head. Quickly freezing portions of meat on racks over dry ice so my freezer doesn't have to is just one.)

I also have a six pack cooler with two 6 pack formed ice packs. *IF* I find that I must have cold drinks I will try to work the 6 pack ice packs into the freezer rotation.

Since I have some experience with integrated control boards and micro hobby computers (Arduino and Raspberry Pi both are easily 12v compatible) I want to add a controlled biscuit fan to the inside of the freezer and a temperature sensor for tracking.

An insulated box for everything should help as well.

Long term a second unit is probably ideal. I think that this will get me on the road with reasonable expenditure and low risk of poisoning myself or having my food spoil. This should give me convenient food storage with flexibility and even some measure of portability since the cooler is not very large.

 

[SternWake]

Gee, I'd love to be able to sleep late, but I have to get up and rotate a bunch of softly frozen ice packs into my Alpha and Omega cooler, or my food will spoil.

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

Gee, I'd love to be able to sleep late, but I have to get up and rotate a bunch of softly frozen ice packs into my Alpha and Omega cooler, or my food will spoil.

You gonna cough up the cash for the second Dometic, the battery it will need to run on and the extra solar panel? I've come to expect some elitism in the RV communities but for a bunch of people living in vans there sure is some animosity toward not being able to afford everything all at once.

My current plan (and budget) include planned increases in the number of solar panels and the battery bank. I figure I'm better off investing in an over engineered charge controller and inverter even though I can't also afford the additional batteries and panel at the moment. What I CAN afford is a single fridge/freezer unit and the solar electric system to support it and my other electrical needs. Once my NEEDS are met I will expand out to some of my WANTS.

I cook planning no or minimal leftovers. I don't eat mayo or drink milk. I need to keep vegetables and some odds and ends cool hardly even refrigerated. The most perishable thing I eat are eggs which will keep at 50% for weeks. If I felt like it I could probably preserve fresh eggs well enough to last for months. I don't eat lunch meat. I've done back country backpacking trips and carried hard cheeses. Once I'm mobile I more intend to be in 105 degree temps any more than I intend to be anywhere sub zero so I hope that I don't have to fight the ambient temps too often.

I've done my math about as well as I can and for now, this is what I've got to work with and it's what I'm going to need to do to get on the road and out from under my S&B's.

Forgive me for having a plan.

 

[Gary68]

both,but i need a freezer for sure,meats,frozen veggies and what happens if i hit the run right and limit out 3 days in a row? that 6 steelheads,i cant eat all that before it goes bad

 

[John Dough]

I thought about getting a freezer, and using any free space to make ice to transfer into a cooler to use as a refrigerator.

 

[Almost There]

You'll still be dealing with fluctuating temperatures in the fridge as the ice melts, which is not good for food preservation. You could also be dealing with floating food if you're not containing the melting water.

My freezer takes significantly more power to keep it a 0 F as opposed to keeping the fridge at 40 F. That's with me putting mostly already frozen food in it. To freeze water constantly would take a whole lot more power than I'm using for the freezer and I'd estimate it at 4 to 5 times the amount of power the fridge uses.

If the major reason you're going to a freezer is to freeze water to use in a fridge then it's a negative situation - you have to have enough power source (solar/generator and batteries) to keep up with the demand of the freezer. Better to go with the fridge only and a much smaller power set up.

 

[mariasman]

I thought about getting a freezer, and using any free space to make ice to transfer into a cooler to use as a refrigerator.

I considered something similar, but not a cooler - an "ice box". There are not many well insulated coolers out there. So I figured to construct a super insulated space as an ice box, freeze water bottles or otherwise contained water, and replace daily. For example, I have in my freezer "bricks" of water contained in plastic that would work well. There are also many other products available that will work in lieu of using ice directly. Basically, the capacity of the 12 volt refrigerators are low. Why not make a much larger and more convenient ice box?

On freezer energy demands, it would likely be reduced somewhat while making ice since the average temperature necessary to freeze water bottles is higher than the temperature required for long term storage of frozen foods. I have also seen others augment insulation on 12 volt freezers with good results.

 

[mariasman]

Just considering the problem more carefully. This seems a reasonable proposal provided the insulation of the "ice box" is sufficient and its volume not too high. For example, I have examined tests of high end coolers that show on the order of 600-800 btu heat transfer over a 24 hour period (ambient temperatures approximately 80F). From what I know of compressor performance, this suggests approximately 0.15 KWh electricity per day required. Now, these coolers were about 40 quart capacity. It seems reasonable to me that a space on the order of 5 c.f. could be super insulated and with an upper shelf designed to contain frozen water bottles or something similar. While 5 c.f. is about 4 times more volume as compared with 40 quarts, it does not present 4 times the surface area. Hence, the heat transfer rate will not be 4 times greater (all else equal), but only on the order of 2 times greater based on the decreased surface area/volume ratio of the larger container. So, 0.15 KWh per day would jump to on the order of 0.3 KWh per day. Now, one must consider also the heat gain to the freezer unit. So, the insulation on that unit should be augmented as well. Can the freezer keep up? It depends on the size of the ice box, the efficiency of the freezer, and especially the quality of the thermal insulation used. Just a cursory consideration suggests it can be made to work well provided the insulation on a 5 c.f. ice box is on par with a high end cooler.

 

[surfmore72]

Thank you all for the incite.  Im leaning towards 1 12v.  starting as a freezer with water bottles and go from there.  I hope to get by with this setup but can always revert to using it as a fridge only.
I am also thinking of building it into a cabinet top.  Surrounding the top in wood and having it lay flush on countertop.  Anyone do this before?  Would think its pretty easy as long as you have stoppers/spacers so that the seal isnt crush from extra weight.

 

[CautionToTheWind]

I know of one fridge/freezer I came across having an insulated cover (additional cost); likely to help lower the draw.

Less cost than Yeti coolers = https://www.rticcoolers.com/shop/coolers

 

[Txjaybird]

Something I have thought about after seeing how some folks build a styrafoam cover for their frig/freezers...well 2 things really.

In the Safari I'm having a MinnKota AC port installed that will let me plug into shore power with a heavy duty extension/power cord without having anything wired into the Safari's current elec. system then I can plug into the inside outlet with regular house hold appliances.  I'll stay where I have elec at times.

So I'm wondering about a mini frig good and cold with Ice blocks packed in plastic in the freezer when I start a trip and if on the road long long enough re-cooling the frig when I have elec.?  I have 2 mini frigs. a counter top and a lgr 1. However would only take one.

 Also I thought/wondered if a older "ice box" from a camper/rv would work in a cabinet well insulated and it could/drip/drain into a bucket or out of a hole in floor?  If the Aliner is along it has a 3 way frig however I don't want to raise the roof unless I'm spending some time some where.  
I will have a ice chest in the van.  Add a pillow and Queenie will have  4 seats and windows to look out of  

I also remerber on you tube a guy adding a lot of interior insulation to a regular ice chest in a "yeti" challenge of some sort?

Jewellann

 

[bcbullet]

If you could possibly avoid running your 12v fridge/freezer as a freezer only you will be far far ahead on power consumption. Using it as a freezer for a couple items and them to freeze ice for the cooler makes no sense because of the seldom thought of properties of "phase change". To cool water to just above freezing takes very little effort. Making the jump to ice though...the "phase change" takes a whole pile. It is similar to the pot of water on the stove that comes to a simmer very quickly and then takes forever to make the jump to boiling (phase change to steam from water). You would likely be using around 3 times the juice to make ice to keep things in your cooler cold than you would be to keep the same items in your 12v fridge.

If you do decide to make ice, be sure to remove the melted water from the cooler immediately if at all possible by keeping the drain open constantly. The heat removed from your food by the ice is actually stored in the now-warm water by, yes you guessed it, the phase change.

Just something to think about.

 

[mariasman]

If you could possibly avoid running your 12v fridge/freezer as a freezer only you will be far far ahead on power consumption. Using it as a freezer for a couple items and them to freeze ice for the cooler makes no sense because of the seldom thought of properties of "phase change". To cool water to just above freezing takes very little effort. Making the jump to ice though...the "phase change" takes a whole pile. It is similar to the pot of water on the stove that comes to a simmer very quickly and then takes forever to make the jump to boiling (phase change to steam from water). You would likely be using around 3 times the juice to make ice to keep things in your cooler cold than you would be to keep the same items in your 12v fridge.

If you do decide to make ice, be sure to remove the melted water from the cooler immediately if at all possible by keeping the drain open constantly. The heat removed from your food by the ice is actually stored in the now-warm water by, yes you guessed it, the phase change.

Well, no, there are three different alternatives considered:
1. Fridge
2. Fridge + freezer
3. Freezer + ice box.

If one can do without a freezer, then choose (1). Of course, cost is a major factor, and (3) makes it possible to maintain a single compressor unit. However, the energy required for alternative (2) vs. alternative (3) is not substantially different. In fact, (3) is slightly more efficient(*). The best way to see this is to consider the rate of heat lost from the two systems, and this is a function of the size of the containers and the quality of their insulation. Let us consider them to be constant. Hence, the energy requirement is not substantially different based on this consideration alone. Basically, the single compressor in alternative (3) does the work of the two compressors in alternative (2).

(*) Based on the evaporator temperature in the freezer being slightly higher while freezing water bottles and the ice box temperature also being slightly higher as compared to the fridge.

 

[Willy]

I tried the freezer+cooler setup and, for me, it was a waste of time. Ended up with a freezer+fridge and MUCH happier. ..Willy.

 

[surfmore72]

I tried the freezer+cooler setup and, for me, it was a waste of time. Ended up with a freezer+fridge and MUCH happier. ..Willy.

Care to share that 1st setup and the specific cons?   My budget and me are really fighting with this one