First Solar setup

[MadVanMan]

I am pretty sure this is the setup I plan on getting.

http://www.renogy.com/renogy-200-watt-12-volt-solar-starter-kit-w-mppt-charge-controller/

And probably gonna opt to add this   http://www.renogy.com/renogy-mt-5-tracer-meter-for-mppt-charge-controller-w-lcd-display/


Would you guys agree that this would be a good starter setup?

 

[highdesertranger]

we just installed that kit about 2 months ago on a friends trailer. its working great. highdesertranger

 

[MadVanMan]

Cool. Was also wondering if I should install a voltmeter to monitor my circuits or is the mt5 enough?

 

[SternWake]

The SOC% on the meter is not the battery capacity but a percentage based on the charging voltage the controller is outputting. The SOC% will only be accurate during float stage.

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]I think this needs repetition.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]Float stage, is when the solar charge controller ( should have) had enough time and enough sunlight for  the solar to raise the battery(s) to Absorption voltage to be held there for the proper amount of TIME for the battery to reach  a true 100% charged.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]The amount of TIME the battery is held at absorption voltage each day is KEY to its longevity in a deep cycle application.  95% charged will yield have the longevity or number of total cycles as reaching 100% charged each recharge, when the depth of discharge is in the 50% range.  getting from 95% to 100% can take 2 more hours, or even more at absorption voltage.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]The amount of time the battery needs to be held at absorption voltage varies widely  amongst different batteries, and changes as the battery ages and has many many influencing variables.  Most solar charge controllers seek a certain voltage ans hold it for a set amount of time, then revert to float voltage.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]Once reversion to float voltage has occurred, Most peopl assume this meand the battery is compleely charged, but the fact is, is that float voltage is almost ALWAYS prematurely initiated.  meaning thebattery needed more time at absorption voltage.  And when the sunlight is there to hold the battery at absorption voltage, but the Asinine solar controller has halved the required time it was held there, well a crime has been committed.  but worse is when the human viewing the solar controller, and seeing the blinking light indicate floate stage, Believing that float = 100% charged is a Giant fallacy.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]Long story short, a solar controller, or any automatic charging source, when it initiates float voltage on a nightly deeply cycled battery, does so prematurely to very prematurely.  Float voltage does not mean the battery is full. Repeat that a few times in your head, and learn to scoff at a solar controller indicating float stage, unless you have been able to either program it to intiate float voltage when the battery is known full, Via a Hydrometer on flooded batteries or by an amperage acceptance rate at absorption voltage on AGM batteries.  ie when amps taper to 0.5% of capacity( 20 h rate) at absorption voltage. [/font]




[font=Biryani, sans-serif]Only an Amp hour counting battery monitor can yield anything near a true state of charge %.  one based on voltage alone can't be accurate with one exception( smartgage)[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/smartgauge.html[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]This renogy meter is simply guessing at a state of charge of the battery, and it is guessing based on when the solar controller drops to float voltage, which it will do prematurely each and every time.  it will show 100% and the batteries could be 88% charged.  88% might be a good score on a test, but it is not good for a lead acid battery.  A lead acid battery needs a 100% as often as possible to retain its capacity.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]Now it would be useful to know how much the solar is capable of returning, but this meter does not know, cannot know how much was removed as there is no inline shunt and a meter counting amp hours OUT of the battery.  it resets to 100% on initiation of this premature float voltage , and then guesses at state of charge based solely on voltage on the next discharge.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]So the starting point is inaccurate 90% of the time in real usage, and then it guesses perhaps with some improperly programmed logic from  there based on voltage held during times of no sun.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]Its better than nothing, but please do not think float voltage means a battery is full and that some device which assumes this folly can be anywhere near accurate when the basis for measuring has no chance of accuracy in the first place.[/font]

 

[SternWake]

On  the link to the MT5 meter, please note the wording, Quote removed to remove weird font issues sans serfif BS.


[font=Biryani, sans-serif]Float stage, is when the solar charge controller ( should have) had enough time and enough sunlight for  the solar to raise the battery(s) to Absorption voltage to be held there for the proper amount of TIME for the battery to reach  a true 100% charged.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]The amount of TIME the battery is held at absorption voltage each day is KEY to its longevity in a deep cycle application.  95% charged will yield have the longevity or number of total cycles as reaching 100% charged each recharge, when the depth of discharge is in the 50% range.  getting from 95% to 100% can take 2 more hours, or even more at absorption voltage.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]The amount of time the battery needs to be held at absorption voltage varies widely  amongst different batteries, and changes as the battery ages and has many many influencing variables.  Most solar charge controllers seek a certain voltage ans hold it for a set amount of time, then revert to float voltage.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]Once reversion to float voltage has occurred, Most peopl assume this meand the battery is compleely charged, but the fact is, is that float voltage is almost ALWAYS prematurely initiated.  meaning thebattery needed more time at absorption voltage.  And when the sunlight is there to hold the battery at absorption voltage, but the Asinine solar controller has halved the required time it was held there, well a crime has been committed.  but worse is when the human viewing the solar controller, and seeing the blinking light indicate floate stage, Believing that float = 100% charged is a Giant fallacy.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]Long story short, a solar controller, or any automatic charging source, when it initiates float voltage on a nightly deeply cycled battery, does so prematurely to very prematurely.  Float voltage does not mean the battery is full. Repeat that a few times in your head, and learn to scoff at a solar controller indicating float stage, unless you have been able to either program it to intiate float voltage when the battery is known full, Via a Hydrometer on flooded batteries or by an amperage acceptance rate at absorption voltage on AGM batteries.  ie when amps taper to 0.5% of capacity( 20 h rate) at absorption voltage. [/font]




[font=Biryani, sans-serif]Only an Amp hour counting battery monitor can yield anything near a true state of charge %.  one based on voltage alone can't be accurate with one exception( smartgage)[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/smartgauge.html[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]This renogy meter is simply guessing at a state of charge of the battery, and it is guessing based on when the solar controller drops to float voltage, which it will do prematurely each and every time.  it will show 100% and the batteries could be 88% charged.  88% might be a good score on a test, but it is not good for a lead acid battery.  A lead acid battery needs a 100% as often as possible to retain its capacity.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]Now it would be useful to know how much the solar is capable of returning, but this meter does not know, cannot know how much was removed as there is no inline shunt and a meter counting amp hours OUT of the battery.  it resets to 100% on initiation of this premature float voltage , and then guesses at state of charge based solely on voltage on the next discharge.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]So the starting point is inaccurate 90% of the time in real usage, and then it guesses perhaps with some improperly programmed logic from  there based on voltage held during times of no sun.[/font]

[font=Biryani, sans-serif]Its better than nothing, but please do not think float voltage means a battery is full and that some device which assumes this folly can be anywhere near accurate when the basis for measuring has no chance of accuracy in the first place.[/font]

 

[MadVanMan]

Ok. So now I have read all that and my head is kinda hurting, are you saying I would be better off not getting the mt5? And if that is the case, can you recommend a better device?

 

[Van Lady]

I am following this thread as I am also considering this solar package.
Am I correct you are getting the mono panels?
Which MPPT the 20 or 40 and why?
I also would like to know opinions on the mt5 and voltmeter vs just mt5.
Thank you!


Van_Lady

 

[MadVanMan]

I will probably go with the mono panels and add the MPPT 40 so I will have the option to add on later.

 

[highdesertranger]

Van Lady, if you plan to add on later go for the bigger controller. if you are not going to add on there is no reason to go to the bigger controller. if you are going to mount the control in a place where you can't read the display then get the MT-5 or if the little display on the controller is to small to read. highdesertranger

 

[SternWake]

My opinion is that the MT5 display is of very limited function in relating to actual battery state of charge. A person with a voltmeter and an Ammeter who were to watch trends and tendencies of voltage under known loads would develop a better idea of true battery state of charge, though there is a learning curve here.

If one reallly wants a reasonably accurate readout on battery state of charge one requires a Trimetric battery monitor or similar be wired correctly and programmed correctly, and rezeroed every so often when it is known the batteries are full.

This is not necessary. One can simply play the recharge at 12.2v game and get respectable service from batteries, but as always the more time the battery gets to remain in the high states of charge area, the longer it will last.

Displaying solar amperage delivered is useful, but more useful when it is known how much was taken from the battery, and without a Shunt inline and a battery monitor counting, there is no way to really know, the Smartgage being the exception.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_monitor

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/programming_a_battery_monitor

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/smart_gauge

Why voltage alone is so misleading:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_state_of_charge

Lots of good electrical dweller related topics here:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects

 

[Van Lady]

Where does a person who cannot install the solar system (along with a fantastic fan) themselves go to find someone to install them? Any ideas? Do I call a place that works on RV's? I live in a large metropolitan area but I do not know where to start to find someone. I found a local handyman through an ad he left on my door who says he does electrical work. Do I take a chance on someone like that? What are your thoughts?


Van_Lady

 

[Bast]

I've been wondering the same thing.
Bast

 

[VJG1977]

Where does a person who cannot install the solar system (along with a fantastic fan) themselves go to find someone to install them? Any ideas? Do I call a place that works on RV's? I live in a large metropolitan area but I do not know where to start to find someone. I found a local handyman through an ad he left on my door who says he does electrical work. Do I take a chance on someone like that? What are your thoughts?


Van_Lady

I saw you had posted to the thread Colorado, solar and craigslist, if you are looking in that area here is a link that may be of help.  http://www.solarreviews.com/solar-companies/solar-companies-colorado/

Link to page with a state listing.  http://www.solarreviews.com/solar-companies/

Not every company does RV's but it would be a place to start.

I did a Google search for "RV SOLAR INSTALLERS"  and Escapees Rv Club  This was the first link http://www.solarreviews.com/solar-c...-installers-polk/installers-escapees_rv_club/

 

[MadVanMan]

I am planning on using 2 Trojan T105s with this setup. Should I run my panels in series or parallel?