Federal Appeals Court Ruling today

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Wow, that article was interesting. I had read that vehicle dwelling in Venice was rough, but that article gave details of just how rough officers can get.

Personally, I'd get out of dodge (Venice), if I were in that position. But I'm glad the vehicle dwellers fought back and won a victory.
 
Hopefully a court will toss out the California law outlawing sleeping in vehicles as well.
 
I don't think it's a California thing, as in the entire state. Each county of different cities makes its own laws. For example, some counties in Northern California are more precise, and hence the laws are probably standing up to scrutiny. But Southern California (Venice) had the vague laws that were too broad, and just about anyone at any time could be considered breaking the law related to a vehicle. In any case, maybe one day all these laws will get overturned, who knows? For anyone who's never been to the state of California, there really is a cultural difference between Northern and Southern California. It's the same state, but people and attitudes seem to be a bit different. Not better or worse, just different. I take that back, sometimes worse...haha! :)
 
If it was a ruling from the federal courts, then it rules only that particular federal district. With the wording of the ordinance they ruled on.
 
This law is entirely unconstitutional not just vague, the constitution doesn't require anyone to have a place to live. How can a law be enforced if your economic situation doesn't allow you to rent or buy a place to live. In our current economy with high inflation and stagnant wages this will become more common for people to be living in their cars, they just won't have a choice. So is it the economy that is making people break the law? So if a person doesn't have a home where are they to go? What do you do if your job or unemployment doesn't pay enough for rent?
A few months ago I read an article on yahoo a couple where living in there van in a California city both had jobs the guy drove a bus for the city, they didn't make enough to have a place to live! Don't remember which city they lived in. So even if a person has a job and is trying to make enough to have a place to live are they still breaking the law? How can they avoid breaking this law?
 
They can avoid it by doing as they are told. It's simple. Just fall in line, go back to your box, and turn on the tv. Everything will be just fine. You like us on Facebook. Our tweets are your salvation. You can be rich. You can be powerful. You can be happy. Just do as you're told and we won't **** with you. Good boy.
 
Aw hell. I read the comments.

(Never read the comments).
 
I was gonna start a thread on this topic, but you beat me! Good.

I strongly disagree with laws that make a person a criminal when they do nothing wrong. I'm all for laws that punish a person who does something wrong. Like theft. I don't steal stuff because I'm afraid I'll get arrested. Could lose my job and then it would get really bad for me. So I tend to leave people's stuff alone.

It is soul crushing to become a criminal for living frugally. Not healthy and should not be a part of a democracy.

I am all for punishing people for littering, pooping on the sidewalks, parking in front of driveways, etc. Assuming the city provides receptacles and such. Will be interesting to see if L.A. provides any true solutions that addresses the core problems.
 
Im from ocean county nj, tent city is no more.

Eviction, demolition and even bribery. Real shame some nice people lived there.
 
I read this today in our local paper. this is a LA city law that was struck down, the city said they would not appeal. but they said they would rewrite the law and try again. so I would not celebrate. highdesertranger
 
Chrebet86 said:
Im from ocean county nj, tent city is no more.

Eviction, demolition and even bribery. Real shame some nice people lived there.

I never heard or read anything in the news on it. I wounder where the 100`s of folks went.
 
They all get a year of housing I think, and they got money too. I forget exactly what the article said but it wasnt all bad.
 
Canine said:
I was gonna start a thread on this topic, but you beat me! Good.

I strongly disagree with laws that make a person a criminal when they do nothing wrong. I'm all for laws that punish a person who does something wrong. Like theft. I don't steal stuff because I'm afraid I'll get arrested. Could lose my job and then it would get really bad for me. So I tend to leave people's stuff alone.

It is soul crushing to become a criminal for living frugally. Not healthy and should not be a part of a democracy.

I am all for punishing people for littering, pooping on the sidewalks, parking in front of driveways, etc. Assuming the city provides receptacles and such. Will be interesting to see if L.A. provides any true solutions that addresses the core problems.


And who decides what is right and wrong? Hammerabi or Jesus or POTUS De jour? Or you and I? How would any of the above be anything less than an arbitrary set of acceptable social parameters?

How can justice move forward when those who maintain the power are those who desperately need to be justified?
 
Drifted Cowboy, We do. We make the choices what is right and wrong. Some choices are highly controversial. If we don't like it, we can do something about it. Petitioning comes to mind.

But we can't always make pure democratic decisions because getting the entire united states together to decide on every topic that needs addressed is physically impossible. There isn't enough time to do that, either. So we elect representatives to make decisions for us. Many decisions are made with our Republic. We are not a true democracy, but more of a republic.

Or we can move if we don't like where we are living. Living in the United States is cool in a way because different states experiment with different rules and social norms. When one state has an idea that works, other states can adopt those ideas. If a state doesn't change, then we can move to a state that better agrees with our philosophies and lifestyles. I don't live in California because it is to socialistic for me. I live in Montana because that state has lost fewer freedoms than most other states.

Almost everything is grey and not black and white. I wouldn't call most things arbitrary; there are reasons, science, experience, etc. that goes into making a decision that affects society. Are arbitrary decisions made and implemented? Yes, but they are not common.

Let's take pooping on the sidewalk. That is far from arbitrary. There are health considerations. It is visually unpleasant as well as smelly. It makes walking on the sidewalk more hazardous because the poo would trip us up. Most of society agrees with that, so we have made a decision to not poop on the sidewalk. Some people still do, though. Some don't care. Some do it just "because" (arbitrarily). Some do it to be mean.

We will always have conflict. We won't always agree. Some rules change over time as society changes. But we make the choices. Even if we choose not to make a choice, we are still making a choice and that affects the society we take part in. Unless you are a hermit living in a cave in a remote corner of the world, you will need to make choices to live with your neighbor.

In regards to living in a vehicle, that is far outside the norm. When one lives so frugally and so freely, that is a problem. A lot of people are forced into that situation because of there poor choices, and those poor choices follow them and manifest in garbage being strewn about. Loud music/noise disrupting neighbors. These are problems with a relatively high number of homeless/poor people. What is the answer? I don't know enough to give a detailed, highly specific answer, but I do know that we will be a part of that decision making process. Part of that process is forums like these.

I didn't understand your last sentence.
 
My point is very simple. There was a time and there still are places where pooping is not only allowed but accepted. Among other things laws and the systems who make them change. They are nothing more than what society has accepted. It doesn't matter what the political system may be or what the power identifies as.

What is right and what is wrong? Each man decides on his own according to his experiences and perceptions of the world, correct? What then of a man whose moral compass guides him away from the institution as a whole once the conflict within can no longer be overcome? Is he now an outlaw by definition though he may hold himself to a far more stringent code of ethics than the world that cast him out?

Hasn't this story and this lesson been told to us a thousand times throughout history?

The delicious irony of American Democracy, in my opinion, is the clamor for equality and democracy by the very people the Republic intended to cut out. Taxation without representation was cause for revolution. Who represents us? Only the people can shout farce but the people must be hungry. A delicious irony.

My last sentence? The only ones with the power to remove to corruption are those who are corrupted beyond salvation. The world has become our village and the hydra our master.

I'm saying the rules are all bullshit created in the here and now and don't have dick all to do with what's right and wrong. They are solely about maintaining order on a scale of millions. Power makes rules and power moves money. It doesn't matter what the government calls itself. We don't write the history and haven't for a long long time.
 
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