EU2000i to charge batteries?

[Svenn]

Well, both Northstar and Odyssey sell compatible chargers on their websites and none of the chargers are above 20 amps.

*sigh*, everything I read about how to set this up is contradictory

 

[IGBT]

As far as powering air conditioners using solar, batteries and an eu2000i, we have some experience.

A very small window unit we use, 6000btu, which has a nameplate rating of around 4.5amps at 120VAC (540 watts) actually pulls around 25 to 29 amps from our 24V battery bank (700 watts) depending on temperature.   It pulls a lot more than that when the compressor cycles on and off, to the point where you cannot run the eu2000i in the quiet eco mode.   Fortunately our Magnum inverter/charger has a generator sharing feature where it provides additional power when the incoming AC from the generator sags.   So we can run the little window unit with the generator in eco mode and a little bit of power from the batteries during compressor start up.

Additionally, because we have 1100 watts of solar, we can sometimes run the air conditioner straight from the sun.  I have seen 900 watts at times, running the air conditioner AND charging the batteries at the same time.   Of course it was 100 degrees outside!

 

[ccbreder]

*sigh*, everything I read about how to set this up is contradictory

Go here;; http://www.marinehowto.com/
select;; "Welcome to MarineHowto.com"
scroll down to;; "selecting a marine battery charger"
After you read this article check the other ones. All about batteries and things related to batteries written in an understandable language.

 

[SternWake]

Well, both Northstar and Odyssey sell compatible chargers on their websites and none of the chargers are above 20 amps.

*sigh*, everything I read about how to set this up is contradictory

Their chargers are relabelled Ctek or Schumacher chargers, and it is just their marketing departments trying to justify the rest of their lies.
  Northstar does not list the huge initial amp requirement when depleted to 50%, but I can tell you from personal experience it benefits from it.

No automatic battery charger marketed at the average joe is going to exceed 25 amps. There used to be a few automatic smart chargers that would go upto 40 amps, but they have been removed from the market. Blame the lawyers, and human ignorance, as no doubt some nimrod would put the charger on a little chinese AGM battery, set it for 25 amps, cause the battery to go into thermal runaway, and the circling vultures would hone in with their indignation and their hands out.

Marine chargers are great chargers, but they are $$$.$$ and generally not very high amperage.

Mainesail knows his battery charging better than anybody on the net.  His writeups are gold.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/effect_of_charge_rate_on_agm_battery

But there is rather stark differences as to what is acceptable on a boat, compared to an RV.

On the following link, it says the 100 amp powermax consumes a max of 1440 watts, which should be well within the handling capabilities of the honda 2000 when the batteries are depleted and you are running no other 115vAC loads

The 120 amp model says it consumes 1776 watts, which is likely too close to the edge of what it can handle.

http://host.aws60.com/~powerma84jsdoer/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/PMBC-Spec-sheet.pdf

 

[Svenn]

Thank you SternWake, you've cleared up a lot for me.

Ok, I'm following your recs and getting the following setup:

Powermax PMBC 100 amp charger ~$300.00  
3 Northstar Group 31 AGMS ~$1000.00  ( http://buy.northstarbattery.com/p/nsb-agm-31-battery )
2000 watt pure sine inverter ~$400.00  ( http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...phQTD244UYdttMtrFwSti6GKCaY3vWW75FRoCHQ_w_wcB )
The ammeter you recommended ~$25  ( http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Digital-...id=1462507045&sr=1-1&keywords=200+amp+ammeter )

It's a lot of money but I hope as read more about batteries I'll be able to get my money's worth.  I assume I'll have to do some fiddling if it's above 100 degrees outside?  I was hoping to take my camper to the Mojave this summer

 

[SternWake]

If you can add some solar, for the mojave and other sunny spots, you have a better chance of getting your money's worth from the Northstars.

Northstar is relabelled and sold as X2 power at batteries plus.

Try and get 3 batteries of the same age.

Northstars owners manual is kind of short on details:

http://www.northstarbattery.com/1.0...e Lead AGM - Application Manual 05-14-12.pdf

A hot battery temperature will require you to lower absorption voltage, northstar's manual calls this 'boost' voltage.

odyssey's manual is much better and the two batteries are very similar.

Read up:
http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/us-ody-tm-001_0411_000.pdf


**

http://rollsbattery.com/uploads/pdfs/documents/user_manuals/Rolls_Battery_Manual.pdf

**

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/TrojanBattery_UsersGuide.pdf

http://usbattery.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/usb-charging-recommendations.pdf

http://www.crownbattery.com/faqs

http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0004.pdf

http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/0656-Service-Manual.pdf

http://www.cdtechno.com/pdf/ref/41_2128_0212.pdf

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electrical-systems/228162-how-murder-batteries-half-year.html

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/sulfation_and_how_to_prevent_it


Well that should keep you busy for a while.

 

[blars]

You could get 200Ah of LiFePO4 for about the same $1000, have more usable power, shorter charge times, and take less space and weight.

 

[Svenn]

^I don't see anywhere online 200Ah of LiFePO4 for only $1000. After rebates etc, I can get 300 ah of AGM for about $800 so I think I'll go with that.

SternWake, do you recommend any 2000 watt pure sine inverters? I've been reading that temperature can be issue, which is a problem if I'm going to be using it in the desert in the summer. This AIMS one looks like it's rated for well above Death Valley, but is pricey:

http://www.invertersupply.com/index...aYIrTggC4zQfq81s8xyP6no6I42Gy7-26_xoCr-Xw_wcB

 

[SternWake]

Not having owned a inverter that large, I cannot make recommendations.


Heat is a big killer of electronics.  When enough dust builds up on the fan blades and heatsinks, its ability to shed heat is seriously compromised. Combine this when in the desert and having the unit enclosed and operating at a significant portion of its capacity, can certainly overwhelm it.

Add a computer fan to ensure there is adequate air flow over and through the unit, and check the fan blades for dust build up, or rig up a filter.

I use these on my fridge's intake.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/4-in-x-12-in-Vent-Filters-12-Pack-WVENT/100351670

 

[akrvbob]

I have this one and highly recommend it! Xantrex ProWatt 2000 pure sine:
http://amzn.to/1OgEvXW

I use it almost daily with my microwave and it's great! I do however, avoid heat like the plague, so can't really comment on that. Up to the mid-90s it works just fine.
Bob

 

[IGBT]

You could get 200Ah of LiFePO4 for about the same $1000, have more usable power, shorter charge times, and take less space and weight.

I am getting a bit tired of these type of statements.   Show a link please where someone without extensive electronics/battery experience can get 200Ah of LiFePO4 made in the USA (or at least sold in the USA) in a complete package with everything they need for safety, including at least a one year warranty that doesn't involve shipping batteries back to China, all for $1000.

 

[blars]

I am getting a bit tired of these type of statements.   Show a link please where someone without extensive electronics/battery experience can get 200Ah of LiFePO4 made in the USA (or at least sold in the USA) in a complete package with everything they need for safety, including at least a one year warranty that doesn't involve shipping batteries back to China, all for $1000.

http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/Prismatic-Lithium-Batteries_c_1.html

CALB CA100FL cells $125 each, 8 in 2P4S configuration cost $1000. 11 links at $2.50 each needed. (The AGM would need 4 to put them in paralled.) Protection needed is a disaster fuse, same as for AGM. 18 month full replacement warranty, CALB has a US office.

You do need to avoid overcharging, overdischarging, high temperatures, and quick charging below freezing. Unlike AGM, don't worry about being left partially charged or minimum charge rate. The AGMs are harder to overcharge, and self-limit charge current at low temperatures. IMHO the LiFePO4 are easier for "someone without extensive electronics/battery experience" not to abuse.

 

[Svenn]

Errin at Powermax tells me the PMBC 100 amp can handle 140 degrees ambient temperature. I ended up getting the AIMS 2000 watt inverter that appears to be able to handle 176 degrees (below). I assume Northstar/X2 can handle something similar, so Death Valley here I come!

http://www.invertersrus.com/aims-pwrig200012120s.html

 

[IGBT]

http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/Prismatic-Lithium-Batteries_c_1.html

CALB CA100FL cells $125 each, 8 in 2P4S configuration cost $1000.  11 links at $2.50 each needed.  (The AGM would need 4  to put them in paralled.) Protection needed is a disaster fuse, same as for AGM.  18 month full replacement warranty, CALB has a US office.

You do need to avoid overcharging, overdischarging, high temperatures, and quick charging below freezing.  Unlike AGM, don't worry about being left partially charged or minimum charge rate.  The AGMs are harder to overcharge, and self-limit charge current at low temperatures.  IMHO the LiFePO4 are easier for "someone without extensive electronics/battery experience" not to abuse.

So you are suggesting go without a BMS?  For a newbie like the OP with zero battery experience?  What about cell balancing?   Do you still need to strap cells together to keep them from swelling? (I haven't looked at the new ones in a year or two so they may have changed this)

 

[ccbreder]

There is a lot more to LiFePo battery system than can be put into a forum reply. They are not for the amateur.

 

[blars]

So you are suggesting go without a BMS?  For a newbie like the OP with zero battery experience?  What about cell balancing?   Do you still need to strap cells together to keep them from swelling? (I haven't looked at the new ones in a year or two so they may have changed this)

In a house battery application, a BMS and cell balancing are almost as badly needed on a LiFePO4 as on AGM. Of course, you can't cell balance AGM and few people use a BMS with them. Strapping to reduce swelling is needed in a high-current charge or discharge situation, (or other prolonged high-heat situation) something that would kill the 324 Ah AGM bank pretty fast as well.

Other than avoiding overcharging, LeFePO4 are much harder to kill than AGM or other lead-acid. It's not the newby to living off batteries that leaves them undercharged that kills them, it's the person that tries to alwasy get them fully charged that kills them.

(Cell balancing, strapping, and "BMS required" are from EV high-current high-voltage use.)

 

[Svenn]

Sternwake or anyone else- the 100 amp charger from Powermax comes with pretty light duty (6 gauge) I think cables... yet you told me I should have at least 00 gauge in my system. I have to significantly cut out the 00 gauge cable to get it to fit into the tiny holes in the powermax, is this ok? Many thanks

 

[SternWake]

How far is the converter going to be from the batteries?

Yes you can destrand the 00 wire just enough to fit the openings for the wire, but they do sell step downs, I forget what they are called ATM.  I destranded 1/0 gauge for my friends 100amp powermax and tinned the ends.

Terminal lug reducers is one name for them. perhaps not the best search term though. They sell offset ones.  Thick wires like these can really stress the outputs on the circuit board.  if this is a mobile application where the charger will be moved a lot then consider adding some sort  of strain relief.

When minimizing losses due to voltage drop at high currents, thicker cable is recommended, especially when battery charging on a fixed voltage charger.

 

[SternWake]

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...keywords=wire+reducer&rh=i:aps,k:wire+reducer

I did not see a 00 to 4awg reducer. I really don't like these crush stranded wire under a set screw type of wire terminals.

Retighten the set screws every so often.

 

[Mobilesport]

As far as powering air conditioners using solar, batteries and an eu2000i, we have some experience.

A very small window unit we use, 6000btu, which has a nameplate rating of around 4.5amps at 120VAC (540 watts) actually pulls around 25 to 29 amps from our 24V battery bank (700 watts) depending on temperature.   It pulls a lot more than that when the compressor cycles on and off, to the point where you cannot run the eu2000i in the quiet eco mode.   Fortunately our Magnum inverter/charger has a generator sharing feature where it provides additional power when the incoming AC from the generator sags.   So we can run the little window unit with the generator in eco mode and a little bit of power from the batteries during compressor start up.

Additionally, because we have 1100 watts of solar, we can sometimes run the air conditioner straight from the sun.  I have seen 900 watts at times, running the air conditioner AND charging the batteries at the same time.   Of course it was 100 degrees outside!

I have a newer energy star 8000 btu Ac and the Honda 2000 seemed to run fine in eco mode ,I had a clamp on ampmeter on it at the time and the amps didn't seem to go real high when the compressr kicked on , this all was about a 15 minute test.
I will be swapping this 8000 btu to replace my 5000btu , I'll get back to you with the results. 
As far as charging batteries with the Honda it seems to work great if you get a good convertor/battery charger