Dumping Waste, Bags or Composting Waste

[GoingMobile]

I'm finishing up a van build, at least to the point I can afford to right now. I''ll finish up over the next 6 months as I am able to. One part I have not completed is the toilet. I have a 5 gal bucket and bags, a "pee jug" as an interim solution, but I am considering a composting toilet. I really don't want to get into a black tank situation.

What I am wondering about is storage and disposal of waste? If using the bags, don't they start to pile up when boondocking away from facilities such as regular trash disposal? Hw do you store them until you arrive somewhere you can properly dispose of them? Where is it proper to dispose of them?

Similar problems with a composting toilet. The advantage to me would seem to be more stable storage of waste for a couple of weeks, but then you need to bag and dump that waste in the end. And where do you find it acceptable to do that?

 

[John in Montreal]

Burn it.

 

[maki2]

Municipal transfer stations, you have to go into towns now and again to get water and food. Dumpsters now and again when available.

Everyone overthinks this before they get on the road. You will quickly sort it out once you start out full time.

 

[Frood]

Burn it.

I wouldn't want to be roasting marshmallows over that campfire...

But then I read that due to lack of fuel while crossing the great plains, early settlers would burn buffalo chips...

 

[GoingMobile]

Municipal transfer stations, you have to go into towns now and again to get water and food. Dumpsters now and again when available. 

Everyone overthinks this before they get on the road. You will quickly sort it out once you start out full time.

Thanks, and yes I'm not yet out there. Just noticing that businesses around where I am often have dumpsters locked up to prevent other people from using them. I'm trying to sort out best practices to avoid potential problems that could lead to becoming an unwelcome visitor as I travel. Sounds like you are finding [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]appropria[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]te [/font]places readily.

 

[WanderingRose]

Seriously, I believe it extremely, extremely unwise to advocate a practice of dumping bags of adult human waste into dumpsters.

I believe this will accelerate the scrutiny on van/vehicle dwellers and lead to more and more restrictions which will make this lifestyle more difficult/less feasible.

Can’t a cassette toilet of any type be dumped into a public toilet and then flushed into the system purpose built to handle human waste?

We are not entitled to free places to park, nor to deposit bodily waste into public receptacles not meant for such material.

Just saying’, this is going to become a serious problem at some point.

IMHO.

 

[jacqueg]

You may be right.

OTOH, I am sure the amount of doggie poop, and the used diapers, both baby and adult, in the waste stream far outnumber the amount of DoodyBags that nomads contribute.

TPTB will have to provide a solution for all those uses. Which I, for one, would welcome.

 

[gizmotron]

I love the smell of burning poop in the morning. It smells like victory.

 

[Boutdun]

Love my compost toilet and would not change, the finished compost bag is not that big, maybe what would be 3 gallon bag, no smell except dirt.

 

[jacqueg]

Love my compost toilet and would not change, the finished compost bag is not that big, maybe what would be 3 gallon bag, no smell except dirt.

How do you have a compost pile as a nomad? Serious question.

 

[GoingMobile]

I don't think most nomads with composting toilets have a compost pile. Hard to do without a permanent location and a garden. The advantage I see is in storage. The #2 matter has air traveling over it constantly and exhausted out of the vehicle. Think of a doggie sculpture on the lawn. Pretty fragrant when fresh, not noticeable when dried out. It starts the composting process, but would need to be further composted before being ready to be used as fertilizer.

Boutdun: Where do you find convenient and appropriate to throw out the compost bag?

 

[DannyB1954]

It takes months to actually compost anything. Pooping in a bag, or a "composting" toilet is about the same thing. Drying it out reduces the smell.

 

[jacqueg]

I don't think most nomads with composting toilets have a compost pile. Hard to do without a permanent location and a garden. The advantage I see is in storage. The #2 matter has air traveling over it constantly and exhausted out of the vehicle. Think of a doggie sculpture on the lawn. Pretty fragrant when fresh, not noticeable when dried out. It starts the composting process, but would need to be further composted before being ready to be used as fertilizer.

Boutdun: Where do you find convenient and appropriate to throw out the compost bag?

It's not compost until it's been hot composting for around a year. Which, as you note, requires a pile somewhere. Which is why I questioned the poster.

Yes, you can mix your poop with composting materials. I do it myself. But that does not make my Luggable Loo a composting toilet, nor does it make the resulting detritus compost.

Composting is a specific process. Poop mixed with composting materials is in the process of becoming compost. But it isn't there yet. You might think this is nitpicking, but the fact is that poop that has been mixed with compost materials for less than a year is not yet safe to strew around the environment. While the purpose of composting is to make a safe, clean material that can be used in the environment. It matters what we call it, because there are a lot of folks out there who seem to think that if you mix poop with wood shavings, it's OK to call it compost and use it as such. It isn't.

If you are ultimately just going to bag it and throw it away, what's the functional difference from a plain old DoodyBag?

EVERYONE who is interested in this subject should read The Humanure Handbook. https://humanurehandbook.com

 

[RVTravel]

I wouldn't want to be roasting marshmallows over that campfire...

But then I read that due to lack of fuel while crossing the great plains, early settlers would burn buffalo chips...

Fecal-smoked smores...it's the new delicasy.

 

[gizmotron]

It may sound like it's not fair to everyone but it only took me 30" of van length to put a full bathroom / shower, 31 gallon black water tank, and a 30 gallon fresh water tank in my van conversion build. I wanted to be able to stay out for at least three weeks before dumping the black tank properly. The entire design is formed around that. Most van builders design around the garage under the bed. Most designs keep the front passenger seat. The fake composting gimmick looks like a bad design idea to me. It's just happy dog bagging for humans. I think the post above is highly illuminating regarding composting. I'm now very glad that I did not go that direction.

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=43988

 

[gizmotron]

Fecal-smoked smores...it's the new delicasy.

And a crowd pleaser for your neighbors too.

 

[GoingMobile]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]In asking the original question I was looking for those that have actually used either system for their experiences, and the details of how to make it work, etc. as I don't personally have that same experience.[/font]

Perhaps one problem is the naming of them as "Composting Toilets" It's a bit of a "green wash" tactic, making it seem like something its not.

The main difference I see between "composting toilets" and 5 gallon bucket and bag setups is in the first, the matter is aerated and dried with the addition and mixing of organic material with a constant airflow over it drying it out to where it can collect for 2-3 weeks before you need to dump it. It provides a stable storage situation for 2-3 weeks and will use 1 or maybe 2 plastic bags.  

It is starting the composting process, but for most users it will then be bagged and put in the trash much the same as dirty diapers. I get it that "Composting" is more a marketing term than a reality.

With the second process I have the impression it uses 1 bag for 1 bowel movement. Over a 2-3 week period this would be a lot of bags. I've camped with a 90lb dog in places with high use, yet no local trash service, that I needed to bag each movement and store it in my trash until I found an appropriate disposal container on the way out.  It added up.  Where do you store the full bags until you arrive at a location where you can properly dispose of them?

If you don't use 1 bag per movement, how does storing a pile of movements in a plastic bag inside a bucket with no aeration work out?

 

[jacqueg]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]In asking the original question I was looking for those that have actually used either system for their experiences, and the details of how to make it work, etc. as I don't personally have that same experience.[/font]

Perhaps one problem is the naming of them as "Composting Toilets" It's a bit of a "green wash" tactic, making it seem like something its not.

The main difference I see between "composting toilets" and 5 gallon bucket and bag setups is in the first, the matter is aerated and dried with the addition and mixing of organic material with a constant airflow over it drying it out to where it can collect for 2-3 weeks before you need to dump it. It provides a stable storage situation for 2-3 weeks and will use 1 or maybe 2 plastic bags.  

It is starting the composting process, but for most users it will then be bagged and put in the trash much the same as dirty diapers. I get it that "Composting" is more a marketing term than a reality.

With the second process I have the impression it uses 1 bag for 1 bowel movement. Over a 2-3 week period this would be a lot of bags. I've camped with a 90lb dog in places with high use, yet no local trash service, that I needed to bag each movement and store it in my trash until I found an appropriate disposal container on the way out.  It added up.  Where do you store the full bags until you arrive at a location where you can properly dispose of them?

If you don't use 1 bag per movement, how does storing a pile of movements in a plastic bag inside a bucket with no aeration work out?

Depends on how much you use it. I can usually fit 3-4 days' "production" in a DoodieBag. I use wood shavings (hamster bedding) and have no issues with odor. 

I use the DoodieBags (https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-2683-13-Double-Doodie-Portable/), rather than disposable plastic shopping bags, because they are much more substantial and seal up MUCH better, and I really do want to be as responsible as possible about this.

I lived full-time with humanure composting systems for around 5 years. IME, you're going to need a container noticeably larger than a 5-gallon bucket to store 2-3 weeks production. If you can fit a larger container in your vehicle - or if you can indeed fit that amount of production in a 5-gallon bucket - then more power to you. But you're simply not going to be able to reduce the output volume significantly in 2-3 week's time.

 

[GoingMobile]

Thanks, that helps me assess the situation. As it is, I think I'll be using a bucket and bags (along with a pee jug) when I first start. So I'll have a chance to see if that is an acceptable way to do my business, so to speak, for awhile before deciding on the Composting Toilet option. (or not) Do the doodie bags fit around the rim of a bucket?

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I know a lot of people poopoo porta potties but that is what I use, in my kurbmaster, it is in a box under the drivers seat that swivels forward to access. I use that blue chemical but only half of recommended amount I have had it sit for three weeks in summer with no issues with odours. I don’t pee in it, I use a laundry jug for that and can use the jug while sitting on pottie. I empty it in any toilet I come across or bury it in a cat hole when appropriate. I find the bag thing a bit weird to dispose of and carry around. I did build a compartment on my rear bumper for the purpose of bag storage originally, installed the porta pottie in case any nosey bodies ever inquired decided to give it a try one day and once you get used to emptying without splashing, i find it to be the cats meow it works as it is intended to. Unless you are sitting in the boondocks for a long period of time finding a toilet is pretty easy so you don’t use it as much as you would think.