I've noticed as I look at states driver's licensing laws, trying to figure out where to set up our mailing address & registration, and all the stuff for establishing a domicile state that my normal license is easy. Most states it looks like people can live in 60-90 days before theyes are expected to switch their driver's license to that state. No problem. But the rules for a commercial license holder appear to be much stricter and shorter time limits. Do we just have to change states more often? Or is there a loophole I'm not seeing? We are hoping to be able to explore an area for a few months before moving on.
domicile & a class A CDL.
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WheelEstate USA
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I don't have a CDL, but I've never worried about how long I visited a state. I carry an Arizona license and kept it while in Fla for 5 yrs. I wasn't working and I didn't have a residence in my name, only a sailboat.
I consider Az my home state, but I claim domicile no where.
I consider Az my home state, but I claim domicile no where.
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I don't think states will want you to change legal residence if you are from out-of-state, but some say they want you to register your vehcile there if you stay more than a few months. California is famous for that. But even then it is very unlikely it will ever be a problem for you even in California. Against my will I was forced to live in California for 18 months and no ever said anything about out-of-state plates.
The CDL is such a detailed question that few of us know about you are just going to have to do the legwork and find out for yourself.
South Dakota makes it so easy to be a resident that is where I would look first, then at Texas, Florida and Nevada.
Are there forums for OTR Truckers and proffessional drivers? That's where I would post this question. They are all so mobile you would think this question is addressed often.
Bob
Bob
The CDL is such a detailed question that few of us know about you are just going to have to do the legwork and find out for yourself.
South Dakota makes it so easy to be a resident that is where I would look first, then at Texas, Florida and Nevada.
Are there forums for OTR Truckers and proffessional drivers? That's where I would post this question. They are all so mobile you would think this question is addressed often.
Bob
Bob
compassrose
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I think you are getting confused over "domicile" and "residence". The words are not interchangable. "Domicile" is the state where your Driver's license is issued, your vehicles are titled, where you are registered to vote. These SHOULD all be a single state as it causes legal problems otherwise. "Residence" is where your house is, normally where your "domicile" is.
EVERYTHING regarding a CDL is harder.
I suggest that you choose a state for your domicile that you will pass thru every couple of years. I suggest this because you can only renew driver's licenses usually twice online before the state wants you there in person to make sure you are real. Been there, done there, ended up getting a NM driver's license AFTER being told I had to show up in person to get my driver's license renewed. They waited until I had two days to make it to TN... from NM. I also suggest you get a passport. It's for identification purposes, not for traveling out of the US.
I suggest you get a mail forwarding outfit in the state you wish to domicile in (usually, FL, TX or SD are the popular choices). Visit the state you choose and get all registered and licensed. Then hit the road. If your domicile state has state income taxes, you will pay income taxes in the states that you earned the money in, then get a credit on your domicile state's income taxes (it's a pita, been there, done that for many years). FL, TN & TX do not have state income taxes. As a TN resident, I paid non-resident income taxes to NC and NM when I worked those states. TX did not collect any state taxes, just federal. I claimed all monies earned in all states on my Federal taxes. Money earned in NC were claimed on NC State Income Tax forms, Money earned in NM were claimed and paid on NM State Income Tax forms. The non-resident rates tend to be about double the resident rates. I use Turbo Tax electronic filing and refunds are deposited into my Wal-Mart Moneycard account. Our next state we move to will be a no income tax state. Filling multiple state income taxes in multiple states is a headache and gets costly. When we lived in NC and David worked in GA, I had the max witheld in my NC paycheck because GA state income taxes werelower than NC state income taxes. When we filed our NC state income taxes, we got a credit on the GA income taxes withheld (Ga got to keep those plus we also had to file GA tax forms) PLUS we had to make up the difference between GA and NC taxes. NC income taxes were much higher than GA income taxes.
EVERYTHING regarding a CDL is harder.
I suggest that you choose a state for your domicile that you will pass thru every couple of years. I suggest this because you can only renew driver's licenses usually twice online before the state wants you there in person to make sure you are real. Been there, done there, ended up getting a NM driver's license AFTER being told I had to show up in person to get my driver's license renewed. They waited until I had two days to make it to TN... from NM. I also suggest you get a passport. It's for identification purposes, not for traveling out of the US.
I suggest you get a mail forwarding outfit in the state you wish to domicile in (usually, FL, TX or SD are the popular choices). Visit the state you choose and get all registered and licensed. Then hit the road. If your domicile state has state income taxes, you will pay income taxes in the states that you earned the money in, then get a credit on your domicile state's income taxes (it's a pita, been there, done that for many years). FL, TN & TX do not have state income taxes. As a TN resident, I paid non-resident income taxes to NC and NM when I worked those states. TX did not collect any state taxes, just federal. I claimed all monies earned in all states on my Federal taxes. Money earned in NC were claimed on NC State Income Tax forms, Money earned in NM were claimed and paid on NM State Income Tax forms. The non-resident rates tend to be about double the resident rates. I use Turbo Tax electronic filing and refunds are deposited into my Wal-Mart Moneycard account. Our next state we move to will be a no income tax state. Filling multiple state income taxes in multiple states is a headache and gets costly. When we lived in NC and David worked in GA, I had the max witheld in my NC paycheck because GA state income taxes werelower than NC state income taxes. When we filed our NC state income taxes, we got a credit on the GA income taxes withheld (Ga got to keep those plus we also had to file GA tax forms) PLUS we had to make up the difference between GA and NC taxes. NC income taxes were much higher than GA income taxes.
light trip
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Maelys,
I've held a class A with T,P,N,M endorsements since the med 1980s. I've driven trucks (18 wheelers) over the US and Canada. I also worked for the Department of Public Safety (DPS) in the Driver License Devision for more then four years with the State of Utah.
The short answer is yes, CDLs are much stricter over a standard car license. Keep in mind what I'm about to tell you was with the State of Utah, from two years ago. However, this was during the time that the State of Utah adopted the federal guidelines for the Real I.D. Act.
Utah has no time grace period for CDLs, not one day. You must get your Utah CDL as soon as you are a residence of the state. Having said that, it's very hard to comply. If you are new to the state, or, haven't had a Utah License that has been surrendered to another state but has not expired, you will need a lot of items. 1. Proof of identity, original birth certificate or a valid US passport (can also be a passport card) 2. Proof of Social Security number. Although some examiners have accepted an original w-2 showing your name and full SS number, I've been told for a CDL only the original SS card will work. 3. Two pieces of mail showing your current address. These can be bank statements, home purchase agreement, rental agreement, electric or gas bills. These can not be copies and remember the there's no grace period. CDL drivers must also provide their D.O.T medical and keep that medical current with the state. Keep in mind medicals are only good for two years while your CDL is good for five. If you let your medical expire and don't present it to the state they will deny your CDL status. Also if you have a hazardous materials endorsement you will need to have your background check from Homeland Security and take the Haz-Mat test. And of course an eye exam. The Driver License Devision also has discretion to ask and require additional documents. At this point a lot of drivers forget driving is a privilege granted by states under federal guidelines. There are no "Rights" when it comes to your license, although it's nearly impossible to get by in the US without one.
Keep in mind that these people have heard every story in the book. They have also been trained to spot fake documents, and in some cases will confiscate them. All drivers are checked against a national data base. If you have any unpaid tickets, owe child support or have warrants you won't get a license. So, if you have a problem, ask if there are work arounds or something else you can do or bring. You'll get much further with them by staying civil. By the way, there are no work arounds if you've been flagged in the national database, you must clear that up in what ever state has a problem with you. But they can provide you with contact information for that state.
Having said all that, it is not uncommon for the holder of a CDL to be in any state operating a car or truck. And the CDL comes in very handy if you want to take a shower at a truck stop. It is, however, important where ever you "call home" to be able to get or at least know when you received mail. The driver license devision will never notify you that there is a problem with your license accept by mail. Also, the post office is under strict instructions not to forward any state mail, including mail that will notify you that your license has been denied, suspended, revoked or expired.
Finally, many states have or will adopt these rules due to the Real ID Act, stemming from 911 attacks.
Hope this helps.
compassrose,
What your going through sounds awful. And it reminds me of a question I've had since my truck driving days. No real answer for this but it's a good question.
If you pay tax in a state you don't live in, isn't that taxation without representation?
Think about it, any state you've paid gasoline tax, sales tax or income tax outside the state you live in, you didn't get to vote in that state, right?
Just saying...
I've held a class A with T,P,N,M endorsements since the med 1980s. I've driven trucks (18 wheelers) over the US and Canada. I also worked for the Department of Public Safety (DPS) in the Driver License Devision for more then four years with the State of Utah.
The short answer is yes, CDLs are much stricter over a standard car license. Keep in mind what I'm about to tell you was with the State of Utah, from two years ago. However, this was during the time that the State of Utah adopted the federal guidelines for the Real I.D. Act.
Utah has no time grace period for CDLs, not one day. You must get your Utah CDL as soon as you are a residence of the state. Having said that, it's very hard to comply. If you are new to the state, or, haven't had a Utah License that has been surrendered to another state but has not expired, you will need a lot of items. 1. Proof of identity, original birth certificate or a valid US passport (can also be a passport card) 2. Proof of Social Security number. Although some examiners have accepted an original w-2 showing your name and full SS number, I've been told for a CDL only the original SS card will work. 3. Two pieces of mail showing your current address. These can be bank statements, home purchase agreement, rental agreement, electric or gas bills. These can not be copies and remember the there's no grace period. CDL drivers must also provide their D.O.T medical and keep that medical current with the state. Keep in mind medicals are only good for two years while your CDL is good for five. If you let your medical expire and don't present it to the state they will deny your CDL status. Also if you have a hazardous materials endorsement you will need to have your background check from Homeland Security and take the Haz-Mat test. And of course an eye exam. The Driver License Devision also has discretion to ask and require additional documents. At this point a lot of drivers forget driving is a privilege granted by states under federal guidelines. There are no "Rights" when it comes to your license, although it's nearly impossible to get by in the US without one.
Keep in mind that these people have heard every story in the book. They have also been trained to spot fake documents, and in some cases will confiscate them. All drivers are checked against a national data base. If you have any unpaid tickets, owe child support or have warrants you won't get a license. So, if you have a problem, ask if there are work arounds or something else you can do or bring. You'll get much further with them by staying civil. By the way, there are no work arounds if you've been flagged in the national database, you must clear that up in what ever state has a problem with you. But they can provide you with contact information for that state.
Having said all that, it is not uncommon for the holder of a CDL to be in any state operating a car or truck. And the CDL comes in very handy if you want to take a shower at a truck stop. It is, however, important where ever you "call home" to be able to get or at least know when you received mail. The driver license devision will never notify you that there is a problem with your license accept by mail. Also, the post office is under strict instructions not to forward any state mail, including mail that will notify you that your license has been denied, suspended, revoked or expired.
Finally, many states have or will adopt these rules due to the Real ID Act, stemming from 911 attacks.
Hope this helps.
compassrose,
What your going through sounds awful. And it reminds me of a question I've had since my truck driving days. No real answer for this but it's a good question.
If you pay tax in a state you don't live in, isn't that taxation without representation?
Think about it, any state you've paid gasoline tax, sales tax or income tax outside the state you live in, you didn't get to vote in that state, right?
Just saying...
Spirituallifetime
Well-known member
If you are just visiting a State and traveling you should have no problems with a CDL. However every thing changes when you get a job, must get a license and register your vehicle in the state you are working in. I encountered this problem in Arizona when I was seen going to work wearing a security guard uniform. If you try to get a job driving trucks the company will usually require you to Change your CDL to the state you will be working in.
Patrick46
Well-known member
Spirituallifetime said:
Not necessarily true...
especially for OTR truck drivers, alotta guys work for compaines in one state, but live in other states (especially if they live just across the neighboring state line). They do not need to get new CDL's for the working state. I never did.
heck...I was often working in 3 different states in a single day.
Spirituallifetime
Well-known member
Yes that is true if you live across the border of a state and of Otr truck driver. However you can't live in one state and have license in another state. This is why when people in this forum chose a resident state for their license they have to have an address in that state so it looks as if they live there!
compassrose
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On working:
Many states want you to become a "resident" and change your "domicile" to their state if you work in said state. Tha is why so many have 30 to 60 day time frames. You do run the risk of being fined. This is part of the reason it is important to have everything (license, tags, insurance, etc) from your "domicile" state. You are simply working temporary jobs. Some states are decent about this, others aren't. Border towns tend to be okay with it. I was pulled over early one AM (I was to be at work by 4AM) by the corrupt Roswell (NM) city cops AKA the Revenuers for out of state plates on my jeep. I had been working for 1 month. I suspect a co-worker turned me in as we had a discussion on why I did not need to be tagged etc in NM since I was a TN resident. I am now tagged/titled/insured in NM plus I have been here longer than I planned. My daughter in the same state had been running TN plates for 5 years with no problems.
We were "vigourously" questioned in NC about being in NC with TN plates during a routine license checkpoint. At the time, I was living in TN and David was living/working in NC during the week and coming back to TN most weekends. The kids & I were over visiting David & my parents. Our response is to not mention work but to ask since when could we not visit other states. The cop was totally out of line and you would have thought we were at a Soviet border checkpoint! That was the first time I began thinking we needed a passport for travel in our own country. Getting a driver's license (all the paperwork required to prove I was a US & NM resident) was another time. I still think we need a US passport even though we have no intention of ever leaving the US (absolutley no interest in Mexico and Canada will not allow us in). Before we leave NM I plan on us having a $135 passport just for indentification needs. Then we will have "identity papers". Sounds like something from one of the spy novels I read. Getting a passport is easier from a fixed location rather than after you have been traveling as it's harder to come up with some of the stuff some places require as "proof of residence".
BTW, I have read on official websites that you should write your address inside the passport in pencil so that it can be changed when you move.
Many states want you to become a "resident" and change your "domicile" to their state if you work in said state. Tha is why so many have 30 to 60 day time frames. You do run the risk of being fined. This is part of the reason it is important to have everything (license, tags, insurance, etc) from your "domicile" state. You are simply working temporary jobs. Some states are decent about this, others aren't. Border towns tend to be okay with it. I was pulled over early one AM (I was to be at work by 4AM) by the corrupt Roswell (NM) city cops AKA the Revenuers for out of state plates on my jeep. I had been working for 1 month. I suspect a co-worker turned me in as we had a discussion on why I did not need to be tagged etc in NM since I was a TN resident. I am now tagged/titled/insured in NM plus I have been here longer than I planned. My daughter in the same state had been running TN plates for 5 years with no problems.
We were "vigourously" questioned in NC about being in NC with TN plates during a routine license checkpoint. At the time, I was living in TN and David was living/working in NC during the week and coming back to TN most weekends. The kids & I were over visiting David & my parents. Our response is to not mention work but to ask since when could we not visit other states. The cop was totally out of line and you would have thought we were at a Soviet border checkpoint! That was the first time I began thinking we needed a passport for travel in our own country. Getting a driver's license (all the paperwork required to prove I was a US & NM resident) was another time. I still think we need a US passport even though we have no intention of ever leaving the US (absolutley no interest in Mexico and Canada will not allow us in). Before we leave NM I plan on us having a $135 passport just for indentification needs. Then we will have "identity papers". Sounds like something from one of the spy novels I read. Getting a passport is easier from a fixed location rather than after you have been traveling as it's harder to come up with some of the stuff some places require as "proof of residence".
BTW, I have read on official websites that you should write your address inside the passport in pencil so that it can be changed when you move.
light trip
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compassrose,
I completely agree with you. I renewed my passport and for an additional $30 got a passport card as well. It is much easier then a driver license, CDL, or even a state I.D. I consider both my passport and passport card a national I.D.
It is, after all a picture I.D., but I do wonder when the day will come when an officer, bank or anyone else tells me I need to have a local or state issued picture I.D. Hasn't happened yet but I could see it.
In many cases my passport card is cheaper then a state I.D., good for ten years, the additional $30 works out to three dollar a year and doesn't have or require an address. That no doubt it will make the police and government agencies feel uncomfortable.
I have started using my passport card more and more. This after returning a defective flat-screen T.V. to Best Buy. They told me they wouldn't credit my card until I showed my driver license. Best Buy, of course, has no right to my license, especially when you consider this was on my credit card. At this point I could have left the T.V. and dispute it on my credit card. Admittedly a bit over the top. I could have also kept the T.V. and taken Best Buy to small claims court for selling me a defective product, again a bit over the top. So I relented, and showed my D.L. Before I knew it the clerk scanned my license into the Best Buy computer system.
Now, until this point, I would have been happy to exchange the bad T.V. for another one, even if it cost more. But after that my wife and I went to WalMart to buy a 50 inch Sanyo. I took the time to write Best Buy, the kind you put a stamp on, stating I will never shop again at Best Buy because of what they did. It's been nearly two years, still haven't missed shopping at Best Buy.
But getting back to cars and driver license. The need for a car and all the documents and requirements that goes along with a car has become a real burden on the motoring public. Just think of everything you go through just to get your license. Then the car, insurance, inspection (in many states), registration, taxes. Then then the money and resource to build and maintain roads, bridges and highways. Even the amount of money and resources that is spent on law enforcement for compliance. And yet by some estimates if someone hits you, there's nearly a 50 percent chance they don't have insurance. And this doesn't include people driving under the influence and texting. The cost of driving in both dollars and lives lost is staggering. All this for the privilege of sitting in traffic and paying nearly $4 a gallon for gas.
Sorry for the rant (sort of), I don't think a lot of people are thinking in these terms. It's my hope to return to a life style without a car someday. Imagine how much less is required by not owning a car and leaving the scrutiny behind.
I completely agree with you. I renewed my passport and for an additional $30 got a passport card as well. It is much easier then a driver license, CDL, or even a state I.D. I consider both my passport and passport card a national I.D.
It is, after all a picture I.D., but I do wonder when the day will come when an officer, bank or anyone else tells me I need to have a local or state issued picture I.D. Hasn't happened yet but I could see it.
In many cases my passport card is cheaper then a state I.D., good for ten years, the additional $30 works out to three dollar a year and doesn't have or require an address. That no doubt it will make the police and government agencies feel uncomfortable.
I have started using my passport card more and more. This after returning a defective flat-screen T.V. to Best Buy. They told me they wouldn't credit my card until I showed my driver license. Best Buy, of course, has no right to my license, especially when you consider this was on my credit card. At this point I could have left the T.V. and dispute it on my credit card. Admittedly a bit over the top. I could have also kept the T.V. and taken Best Buy to small claims court for selling me a defective product, again a bit over the top. So I relented, and showed my D.L. Before I knew it the clerk scanned my license into the Best Buy computer system.
Now, until this point, I would have been happy to exchange the bad T.V. for another one, even if it cost more. But after that my wife and I went to WalMart to buy a 50 inch Sanyo. I took the time to write Best Buy, the kind you put a stamp on, stating I will never shop again at Best Buy because of what they did. It's been nearly two years, still haven't missed shopping at Best Buy.
But getting back to cars and driver license. The need for a car and all the documents and requirements that goes along with a car has become a real burden on the motoring public. Just think of everything you go through just to get your license. Then the car, insurance, inspection (in many states), registration, taxes. Then then the money and resource to build and maintain roads, bridges and highways. Even the amount of money and resources that is spent on law enforcement for compliance. And yet by some estimates if someone hits you, there's nearly a 50 percent chance they don't have insurance. And this doesn't include people driving under the influence and texting. The cost of driving in both dollars and lives lost is staggering. All this for the privilege of sitting in traffic and paying nearly $4 a gallon for gas.
Sorry for the rant (sort of), I don't think a lot of people are thinking in these terms. It's my hope to return to a life style without a car someday. Imagine how much less is required by not owning a car and leaving the scrutiny behind.
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