Dog breed ideas?

[Kitt]

Hey yall! My second time posting here. Tahoe living didn't quite work out. I didn't have enough of am income to make it work. But now I'm back and more determined than ever! I'm going the van route, and I'm working at starbucks part time. Working 4 hour days 3 or 4 times a week if I'm lucky. I'm heading to Ecuador in July for about a month. Trying to get my GPA up to get financial aid. If all goes well me working and saving a bit of money and getting financial aid I'll be able to come up with about $3,000 by next year. Sell my car for another $3,000. Have plenty to buy a van (I'm looking at a passenger van, about 4k here) and remodel it.

But now to my question. I'm in need of a psychiatric service dog. Kind of stumped on breeds that would also be suitable for van living. I will most likely get the dog a few months before I fully transfer to van living, since when I do I'm transferring up to Washington. Thinking about Vancouver.

I need a large breed. Or medium to large I guess. I like my dogs on the bigger side. Will be used to alert to anxiety or panic attacks, deep pressure therapy, block and cover (when I'm in a store either lay behind me or in front of me) and alert me to people coming behind me, as well as keeping people away from me, guiding me to an exit or quiet place during an attack or dissociative episode for grounding and DPT.

What dog breeds would yall recommend? I'm not looking to go the breeder route because of the price and they are super uptight when it comes to where their dogs are placed. Been told by several I have no chance of getting a dog because I live in a duplex with a small fenced yard with 3 cats and a dog. And I'm not mature enough for a puppy because I'm 19 and live with my mom still. ( ??????? It's literally $900 for a small studio where i live. I can live in a van for half that and probably have more room)

So I'm looking at shelters. Will say I live with my grandma or dad, who own their own homes. Most likely my grandma since they may do a home check. People in my area aren't too accepting of the live in a van with a dog lifestyle.

I'm hoping to have the dog trained for public access by the time I go up to Vancouver. Or basic obedience and able to stay in a crate. Under ADA dog can be with me at work but since I work at starbucks will have to stay in a break room. Considering the weather I think that would be preferable to staying in the van.

Dogs breeds that I will NOT consider:

Golden Retrievers
Labradors
Poodles

Dogs I have been considering:

Bully breed mutt from the shelter (otherwise known my misinformed individuals as the "pitbull")
German Shepherd


And that's it. I'm not too familiar with dog breeds. I want a dog with medium length fur. Suitable for cold weather and chilly nights in the van but not long enough to wear we can't go hiking in summer because the pup will overheat.

Preferably a "velcro" dog. Every pit my family has owned, we've never had to consiously teach then recall, because they never left our sight. As my grandma has said "Brat... well Brat never went far away from me. She would run ahead sniff and come back to check on me. Ran circles like that all day. Then if it was nice out I got my furs from the van and we slept outside, never had to worry about waking up and she'd be gone. But I once had this god damn queensland heeler. Fucking idiot. Middle of nowhere and saw people camped 2 miles down and ZOOM went off to go say hi. If he liked them so much he could stay with them then!" (Dog eventually came back and they continued their adventures living in a van in the 60s)

I also love really intimidating and/or wolfy looking dogs (like the Native American Indian Dog, but there are only 3 or 4 breeders and I can't afford their prices)

Any suggestions would be welcome!

 

[Gigi]

I was always under the impression that you had to get a dog that was already trained to assist in these specific areas. There was a woman who was trying to raise money to get a service dog for her diabetic daughter because the dog was trained to pick up scents at the cellular level that indicated her blood sugar levels were off. The dog was like $4.000.00. Is there an agency that licenses the dogs to see if they perform to this standard or criteria? I guess, I'm just not sure if you can pick out a random dog from a shelter and say this dog is my service dog unless it's for companionship. What if you adopt a dog and he/she doesn't have the temperament or ability to reach your standards? Can someone just adopt a dog and call it a service animal?


Gigi

 

[Kitt]

Of course not. I left a lot out. I always assume people have put in same amount of research I have. There are temperament tests that can be performed to assess if the dog is a suitable candidate.

I don't need things like mobility work, or really even much guide work. I don't need them to retrieve things for me or any other complicated tasks. I display certain behaviors before am anxiety or panic attack (sometimes) and it is entirely legal to train your own service dog. Most dogs are intuitive enough to pick up on changes in their handler, like to an oncoming panic or anxiety attack. Our current family dog will alert, has provided deep presume therapy, and if she wasn't so reactive around men (along with her age and health issues) I would train her.

BTW I never trained her to do any of those tasks. She just picked up on it. Hence my request for a "velcro" dog, who bonds strongly with their owner. They are more likely to be able to do this and I won't need to wash them out.

My stepmom was a professional service dog trainer and I learned a lot from growing up and watching her. There is another thread about service dogs and someone linked to an ADA FAQ that's really informative! It can take up to two years to fully train a service dog, depending on what is needed. Most of that is public access. My time line may seem off but I will spend a solid 5+ months before taking the dog to work with me, to get a solid obedience foundation.

You do not need to go through a program, but service dogs are highly trained medical equipment. My best friend is in need of a psychiatric service dog, that can also alert to changes in her blood sugar, and do light mobility work as well as retrieval work. It would take her several year to do it on her own, and she works full time and goes to school, so she is choosing to go through a program.

I chose not to, because I don't like the idea of someone else training my dog.

Also there is no certification or registration of any kind. They are scams. But before I take my dog in grocery stores or other places I will need him, I will have him pass his public access test.

But for work, considering where I work (with food) he may come with me but cannot go where food is prepared. So he will be kenneled in a break room. Many people may not agree but I rarely work more than 4 or 6 hours, and it's better in a climate controlled environment (with a frozen Kong and other puzzle toys) where, as reasonable accommodation, I can take him out every hour or 2 hours. I am staying at starbucks until I finish school, if I decide to get my bachelor's (school is expensive and starbucks offers tuition reimbursement but I have to work there a year and work a minimum of 18 hours a week, which is about what I work. I work 2 or 3 days in a row then I won't work for another 3.)

So you see, my dog will be a fully trained service dog. And unfortunately if they wash out then I will either keep them and adopt another dog as a prospect, or re-home him with a good family. Depends on where I am and what my situation is like.

I apologize for not making that clear before. I just didn't want to ramble on haha.

 

[mayble]

If I were in your position, I would stay away from bully breeds purely because of public perception and breed specific restrictions.  A service dog is exempt from breed bans but I think I would soon be frustrated at having to explain and educate repeatedly.  People are ignorant enough about service dogs in general, I would think there are enough obstacles to overcome without adding any more
My whole family has pitbulls and they are probably the most willing and trainable dogs out there.  It's unfortunate the deck is stacked against them, but it's the reality.  
A German Shepherd is probably the most widely recognized service breed, thanks to the Leader Dog program and the military.  
You'll walk into a shelter one day and find your new partner waiting for you.  Look to temperament and compatibility first and the rest will fall into place.
Good luck

 

[GotSmart]

A warning on German Shepherd rescue (shelter) dogs.  Hip and spine problems are extremely common with that breed.   

Also the bigger the dog, the bigger the cleanup.  

 

[masterplumber]

I've had Huskies and Malamutes almost all of my life. They definitely bond with their owners. You refer to Velcro dogs. I think of it more as a pack mentality and husky types have that in spades. My dogs have all seen me as the alpha male of the pack (some packs have alpha females so no problem there). They are amazing dogs and very trainable. I know from experience they pick up on our subconscious emotional cues, but I have no idea if they could be trained to do what you need. I don't often see them used as service dogs, so that may say something. I do know they make amazing travel companions, my current dog Wolf has traveled the western US with me and goes to work with me most days. They also tolerate wide temperature ranges - We see everything from below 0 to over 100 in the course of a year and it doesn't seem to phase them much. When it gets above 80 or so they will seek out water to lay in - I just keep a kiddie pool handy. And if they are outside and it gets real cold and the wind is blowing they will just curl up and stick their nose under their tail.

 

[Kitt]

I've had Huskies and Malamutes almost all of my life. They definitely bond with their owners. You refer to Velcro dogs. I think of it more as a pack mentality and husky types have that in spades. My dogs have all seen me as the alpha male of the pack (some packs have alpha females so no problem there). They are amazing dogs and very trainable. I know from experience they pick up on our subconscious emotional cues, but  I have no idea if they could be trained to do what you need. I don't often see them used as service dogs, so that may say something. I do know they make amazing travel companions, my current dog Wolf has traveled the western US with me and goes to work with me most days. They also tolerate wide temperature ranges - We see everything from below 0 to over 100 in the course of a year and it doesn't seem to phase them much. When it gets above 80 or so they will seek out water to lay in - I just keep a kiddie pool handy. And if they are outside and it gets real cold and the wind is blowing they will just curl up and stick their nose under their tail.

Thanks. I don't subscribe to the whole alpha theory. It's been debunked too many times, and I've seen too many dogs who have suffered because their owners ~showed them who is boss~ by alpha rolling them (only done in the wild when one wolf is going to kill another. It's not being submissive.) And I've seen too many dogs snap as a result of the forced helplessness from trainers who are dominance based. Not for me lol. Positive reinforcment only here! And I've considered huskies and malamutes, but I'm not a fan of the high prey drive and their inability to be trusted off leash. They are very intelligent dogs, but more of the "well what's in it for me?" Attitude. It all depends on the dog. For now I'm just trusting that when it's the right time the right dog will find me ^-^ huskies are one of my favorite breeds tho.

 

[GotSmart]

Thanks. I don't subscribe to the whole alpha theory. It's been debunked too many times, and I've seen too many dogs who have suffered because their owners ~showed them who is boss~ by alpha rolling them (only done in the wild when one wolf is going to kill another. It's not being submissive.) And I've seen too many dogs snap as a result of the forced helplessness from trainers who are dominance based. Not for me lol. Positive reinforcment only here! And I've considered huskies and malamutes, but I'm not a fan of the high prey drive and their inability to be trusted off leash. They are very intelligent dogs, but more of the "well what's in it for me?" Attitude. It all depends on the dog. For now I'm just trusting that when it's the right time the right dog will find me ^-^ huskies are one of my favorite breeds tho.

Doug (Masterplumber) has a unique way of showing he is alpha.  If you could see the way his dogs react to him with complete respect and no fear~~~, just love.  More like non rebellious kids.  Wolfie just wants to make dad happy!

Not everyone can control their dogs that way.  

One day you will look into the face of a dog, and you will know.

 

[Txjaybird]

I often hear of different breeds described as being a certain way  like aggressive.....territorial and other things... some folk then lump all of that breed together with what they have heard...I do believe breeds show various tendacies however on a individual basis some dogs can surprise you.  My family thru the years has had so many dogs ...from chihuahuas' to pit/shepards'.....  some pure bred and some Heinz 57......Daisy I think Black Mouth Cur And Tenenesee Walking Horse  she had the longest leeeeeegs...Dusty ran like he had rocket stuck in his butt he was a short legged Basset Hound & Fat too!  None of our animals as far as I know were picked for their breed.  I think on the thread about aggressive breeds I posted about Apache my sons pit/shepard...kids cats & puppies were safe with him...  we're pretty sure he died protecting our property.  

I figured out the times my current animal companion wouldn't 'leave me alone' by poking me and pushing me & sometimes even laying across my head or standing on me while I am asleep was her way of telling me 'SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT WITH YOU".... my blood sugar can go between 90 [crying time] to 400 [i'm gonna smack someone] in a 24hr period or less....along with this I can also be agitated or depressed   [yes I know I'm a piece a work   ]

A  few years ago she began having random seizures,  the vet told me to get rid of my old tube T.V. that just like people with epilepsy the flickering could cause a seizure,  also that her breed is prone to seizures because basically some have a skull to large for their brain and if they jump constantly it can be like shaking a baby......the T.V. went and the seizures stayed....... I keep her close to me and I've  learned how she looks and acts when she is in trouble and she has learned to recognize the onset signs and will come to me... a few times we've been caught unawares and she will be in seizure when I get her......twice recently i've dropped to cold concrete to hold her with no thought of how we'll get up yet we made it thru.....and on the bed she has crawled to me without her back legs working and i woke up.  The only thing I can do is hold her and make sure she comes too no harm.

I am not sure which of us is the Emotional Support Animal however neither of us has any professional training...certification....registration...we just are...... a mutual aid society of an untrained attack chihuahua and a outspoken Texas woman
yes I do have point
MY POINT BEING THAT WHILE CERTAIN BREEDS ARE KNOWN FOR/SHOW CERTAIN TENDENCIES YOU JUST NEVER CAN TELL WHAT DOG IS A GOOD MATCH FOR SOMEONE UNTIL YOU'VE BEEN TOGETHER FOR AWHILE
THAT'S OUR STORY AND WE'RE A STICKIN' TO IT        PEACE TO YA'LL     JEWELLANN AND QUEENIE


BEFORE ANYONE EVEN THINKS OF GOING THERE,,,,,I IN NO WAY DEMEAN OR BELITTLE THE TRAINING OF HANDLING OF OR OWNING OF ESA OR SA ANIMALS........THIS IS JUST MAINLY HOW MY FAMILY HAS BEEN WITH DIFFERENT BREEDS OF DOGS FOR MANY GENERATIONS AND OF COURSE ABOUT THE QUEEN.

 

[SoulRaven]

To be on the safe side, I would not choose a dog that it is considered an aggressive breed. Any shows of aggression by the dog nullifies it having to be welcomed.

 

[Gigi]

 by alpha rolling them (only done in the wild when one wolf is going to kill another. It's not being submissive.) 

With all respect, that is incorrect.  Not only is it common for wolves to roll submissive wolves and not kill them, dogs do it too.  I see all the time.

Gigi

 

[Kitt]

To be on the safe side, I would not choose a dog that it is considered an aggressive breed.  Any shows of aggression by the dog nullifies it having to be welcomed.

A service dog is a highly trained piece of medical equipment. Trained to be, essentially, bomb proof in public. Desensitized to screaming children running up to it, aggressive people, strange dogs etc. At the first sign of aggression, most dogs are taken back a step or two. If not washed out then and there.

So there will be no shows of aggression in public. The second that happens the dog is washed out and deemed unsuitable for service dog work. I've seen many " aggressive " breeds do wonderful with SD work.

Tiny.tina.Athena on instagram comes to mind, as well as Itty bitty the pittie. As other people have said it's less the breed and more the dog.

Yes dogs will display certain traits that are genetic. Huskies are jerks (I mean that with the utmost fondness, I absolutely love huskies) they won't do anything unless there is something in it for them. There are certain base traits with every breed. But unfortunately due to poor breeding most dogs are st the extremes of those base traits. Badly bred huskies aren't high energy and high prey drive. They are borderline nuerotic. German Shepherds have horrid conformation and have severe hip and spine impairments.

From what I've seen, bully breeds in the shelter "pitbulls" are the most even. Most likely because any blocky headed breed is considered a pit and will be bred with another. Even tho it may be a boxer mix bred with a mastiff mix. Or a cane corso and an American staffie. There is more substance to their gene pool.

I guess that's the only perk of 20+ breeds being misrepresented as pitbulls. When the time comes, I'm sure I will know the right dog. After extensive temperament testing of course ??.

Thank you all and I am still open to other BREED SUGGESTIONS.

 

[Kitt]

With all respect, that is incorrect.  Not only is it common for wolves to roll submissive wolves and not kill them, dogs do it too.  I see all the time.

Gigi

I got my info from naturepunk.tumblr.Com and Yourdogisnotawolf.tumblr.com

Naturepunk owns a low content wolf dog and studies them.

 

[highdesertranger]

I like mix breeds. call them mutts, curs, Heinz 57(haven't herd that in a coons age), or whatever. I just find them all around better dogs. highdesertranger

 

[Kitt]

It won't let me edit but Gigi, I should have worded it better actually. It should have said "threatening to kill another"

Alpha rolling is a very traumatizing thing. Especially for puppies.

 

[Kitt]

Doug (Masterplumber) has a unique way of showing he is alpha.  If you could see the way his dogs react to him with complete respect and no fear~~~, just love.  More like non rebellious kids.  Wolfie just wants to make dad happy!

Not everyone can control their dogs that way.  

One day you will look into the face of a dog, and you will know.

Oh I'm sure! It would be interesting to hear about how he shows he is alpha! I love hearing about different people's methods. If he shows he is alpha without alpha rolling and forced helplessness i am ALL ears!

The alpha theory is indeed an interesting one! only applicable in an unnatural forced pack I would think. That's how we got the theory. A biologist basically tossed a bunch of unrelated wolves together in an enclosure to see what would happen, and assumed that is what happens in the wild. In the wild, i guess the alpha male and female are the parents. a wolf pack is literally two wolves and their children. some decide to stay with the parents, and some decide to leave. It's all very fascinating and i would love to learn more, since i actually know very little.

I know i may come off as a know-it-all at times, but i promise i do have an open mind, despite being a very opinionated 20 year old!

 

[GotSmart]

I got my info from naturepunk.tumblr.Com and Yourdogisnotawolf.tumblr.com

Naturepunk owns a low content wolf dog and studies them.

I went to both of those sites, and did not find any credentials on either of the owners.  Just advertising and emotion.  

([font=Helvetica, sans-serif]Hi! I'm a taxidermist. Female, 20s, world traveler, published wildlife photographer, wolfdog owner, canine foster mom, running a mini-farm in Oregon.)  [/font]

That is not credible credentials. Not A wolfdog has no credentials.  Both are fund raising sites. 

Credentials would include university degrees in a field of study, or even association with someone that has many years of experience.  

Now if you posted a site that ended with .edu, then that would show a slight bit of credibility.  

While obtaining my degree, I was a researcher for one of the top communications programs in the US.  For information to be used in a academic setting, it must have been vetted by someone with a proven record of knowledge on a subject.  

I have raised a lot of animals, and being the boss (Alpha) can be done in several ways.  Force is only one of them.  

Think of how your favorite teacher controlled the classroom.   :idea:  I bet nobody was "rolled."

 

[Kitt]

With all respect, that is incorrect.  Not only is it common for wolves to roll submissive wolves and not kill them, dogs do it too.  I see all the time.

Gigi

OH GRRRRR

i switched from my phone to my laptop and now i cannot edit ANY of my posts haha

so there are like 8 different replies. sorry i tried to remember where exactly i got that info but i couldnt find the exact post with the sources

I did pull this quote off of wikipedia

"It has been argued by some that a dog will only forcibly flip another animal onto its back during a serious fight where the intent may be to kill the opponent. These dominance behaviors are shown significantly more often by the breeding pair of the pack, but the purpose or role of the behavior is controversial."

so lets see if i can find a reliable source!!

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/14_12/features/Alpha-Dogs_20416-1.html

this was my favorite out of several articles i read!

this has gotten very of topic and i apologize lol.


EDIT: I wrote this yesterday but my laptop was glitching and was unable to post it until i got off work today and we got a new modem for our internet. But seeing the reply from GotSmart, i feel this should still be posted. But let me see if I can find a site ending in .edu.


HERE WE GO!

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.523.3931&rep=rep1&type=pdf

i just scanned but seems well written and reserched with lots of reliable sources

 

[Kitt]

I went to both of those sites, and did not find any credentials on either of the owners.  Just advertising and emotion.  

([font=Helvetica, sans-serif]Hi! I'm a taxidermist. Female, 20s, world traveler, published wildlife photographer, wolfdog owner, canine foster mom, running a mini-farm in Oregon.)  [/font]

That is not credible credentials. Not A wolfdog has no credentials.  Both are fund raising sites. 

Credentials would include university degrees in a field of study, or even association with someone that has many years of experience.  

Now if you posted a site that ended with .edu, then that would show a slight bit of credibility.  

While obtaining my degree, I was a researcher for one of the top communications programs in the US.  For information to be used in a academic setting, it must have been vetted by someone with a proven record of knowledge on a subject.  

I have raised a lot of animals, and being the boss (Alpha) can be done in several ways.  Force is only one of them.  

Think of how your favorite teacher controlled the classroom.   :idea:  I bet nobody was "rolled."

it was a post that was reblogged to both their blogs, and that had sources and all that fun stuff, but i was unable to locate it. And as far as i know neither one are "fund-raising sites" I believe it was notawolfdog who was advertising a link to buy misrepresentation stickers she designed and im not sure if naturepunk makes ANY money off her blog. but they both might have ads, im only ever on my phone, rarely on my laptop so i am not knowing!

ETA: i always get notawolfdog.tumblr.com and yourdogisnotawolf.tumblr.com mixed up. for the most part their blogs are mainly wolfdog phenotyping/misrepresentation. I got my infor from a posted hey reblogged but was unable to find it.

 

[masterplumber]

Kitt, I think you and I may be using the term Alpha differently. For me it just means I am the leader of the pack. That means not just in charge, but also protector and provider. I think most dogs naturally recognize a leader, whether dog or human. And you are correct in that most wolf packs are family units. I can't really explain how I work with my dogs, I just love them and provide for them. I've had dogs all my life - grew up on a small farm and at times we had as many as 14 dogs. I also managed a kennel on the weekends when I was in high school. My wife jokingly calls me a dog whisperer. I don't know, I think I just understand dogs better than people. LOL. Dogs for the most part are totally honest creatures. If you pay attention you can usually read a dogs intention. And if you speak in a calm but firm voice without fear you can even get someone's trained Doberman guard dog to obey you - I can tell you from experience that it really irritates the owner when they get to the door and their trained watch dog is sitting in front of you quietly enjoying being pet. Also, rolling a dog on it's back can be play also - dogs do it to each other and I've played with my dogs also - just not in a mean manner to gain control.

The tendencies of huskies to run away off lease and chase small animals is true, but not 100% Wolf will chase squirrels and rabbits, but seems just curious about cats. He has wandered off when he's had the chance a few times, but it is usually just nose to the ground not paying attention to where he is. As soon as he hears my truck driving around looking for him he comes running so as not to be left behind.