Dodge van frame horns rust issue

[MotorVation]

2002 Dodge Ram Van 3500 Maxi-wagon 4000lb front axle.

I pulled my steering gear box today because it's out of adjustment and I have to do the bearing pre-load adjustment. I'll get into that later. There was a bunch of rust on the driver side front frame horn as you can see in the pic. The gearbox is removed and was attached on the other side of the horn to a bracket. Neither the bracket welded to the horn nor the bracket that's bolted onto the box itself was rusty but this rust in the pic had me concerned, especially on the weld itself. Rust on the front frame horns can be a death sentence on these Dodge vans if not dealt with.


I was able to grind all this rust off with a power drill and wire wheel attachments. Just about everywhere I took it down to the bare metal.
I then cleaned it really well with Bike Bright degreaser. I then took a garden hose and washed the Bike Bright off really well and let it dry for about an hour. To make sure it was dry I blew it off with an air compressor and let it sit for a while longer.

This is the two coats of rust reformer. I also sprayed it into any opening I could find so it would coat the inside of the rail as well as the outside.


Tomorrow I'm going to give it another light coat or two then I'll coat it with a couple enamel top coats the following day.
The steering gear box is soaking with PB Blaster as I was able to remove the lock nut, but the adjustment "nut" is frozen solid. I tried several times to move it with a spanner wrench but no go. i have a feeling it may be turned all the way in and frozen there but i don't know that for sure. The locknut didn't have any signs of prior adjustment so maybe I'll get lucky.

 

[Weldman]

Time to break out the cutting torch or torch to heat it up. Hand tools trying to undo it or impact tools?

 

[user 2252]

Nice job!

 

[Matlock]

Well done on the rust. Now to check the passenger side, that's the side that gets all the winter salt road water splashed up from the puddles.

Amazon carries a product called KBS Cavity Coater and the aerosol spray comes with a 36" wand (flex hose). Perfect for getting inside door panels and boxed frame rails to stop rust. I've used it for four years on two trucks. It coats and turns rust black, similar to por-15 but in a spray application and can be painted any color after it dries.

 

[MotorVation]

Even the sun shines on a dog's ass every once in a while..

I was able to break the adjuster loose after it soaked in Blaster overnight. I do have an adjustment left in there. First I cleaned the threads of the adjuster and the locknut so it wouldn't bind before bottoming out. Supposed to tighten it in until it bottoms at 25ft lbs of torque which I was able to do. Next, the adjuster is supposed to be loosened .20 of an inch from tight, which I was also able to do. When I had it screwed in tight there was zero play n the box so it's not shot. When I back it back out .20 it gives it a small amount of play. There was too much play in it previously and I could actually hear a small clunk inside it but that's gone now.

I just gave it another coat of that rust reformer so I'll have to wait till tomorrow to give the frame the enamel top coats. I may even look into getting some undercoating to spray on later.

The passenger side rail isn't rusty. Just a tiny amount of surface rust luckily.

If I hadn't pulled the steering box I wouldn't have known it was rust free behind it. I was afraid of what I was going to find. The rust I did take care of could have been done just by jacking the van up and removing the wheel.

After I get it all back together I'll update on the steering box adjustment and whether it solves my problems. The van doesn't wander but when it gets hit with a good gust of wind it literally moves the van in the lane. It doesn't bump steer nor follow dips in the road etc. I know what sloppy steering is ie bad pitman arm etc. I've been driving old crap most of my life and this is different. I know what normal buffeting feels like and believe me, this isn't it.

I've already replaced all 4 shocks, both idler arms (4000lb axle has two) and the drag link. The steering gear is the only place left I could find any play.

Sorry about the long winded post. I'm writing it on the outside chance that someone else has these problems.

Matlock, thanks for the head's up on that KBS product. I'm going to look into that.

 

[MotorVation]

Here's the frame horn with a few coats of oil based enamel. The factory color is a bit lighter but this will do. I'll be able to check for rust easily in the future.
I have the steering gear box bolted back in but it's not hooked up yet.

 

[Doubleone]

Hi MotorVation,  Also check the steering shaft for u-joint/CV-joint/bushing slop.  Lock the shaft at the steering box with a vice-grip and a clamp the end of the vice-grip against the frame so it's absolutely rigid.  Then check for slop at the steering wheel...  

My 97 Ford had a rubber bedded double-D slip shaft and a CV-joint that were super sloppy.  So I had to re-engineer it... welded the rubber bedded portion solid and replaced the CV-joint to get the slop out of mine.  Prior owner likely experienced the same problem and over-tightened the steering box and wrecked it.  I had my box custom rebuilt by Redhead Steering Gear in Oregon.  Outstanding workmanship; I highly recommend!

 

[MotorVation]

Funny that you mention that. Tomorrow I'm pulling the intermediate shaft totally out. It's a long story but to sum it up, it was collapsing the other day (with the gear box pulled) and it wouldn't budge yesterday before or after I bolted the box back in, no matter the angle or rotating it slightly. I'm going to see what's going on. I'm hoping I can just lubricate the movable joint. The shaft is obsolete so I'm hoping I can get it moving and that the end that connects to the column is tight. It's tight on the end that hooks to the box. 

I did get a good bearing pre-load adjustment on the box but only a road test will tell the true tale. A couple months ago I did a slight over center adjustment, just about a 1/4 turn in. I could feel it tighten at the steering wheel but the slop is still there when I get nailed hard by wind and I was able to identify slop in the box when I had it in the vice.

If I get anything out of all of this, I know the van isn't a goner due to frame rot. I didn't know that until I dug in..


Thanks

 

[highdesertranger]

if your box need rebuilding I would go to a medium/heavy truck repair shop and ask them where they get their steering boxes rebuilt. the ones you get at a regular parts store are iffy at best, your chances of getting a good one is rare. if you need a new shaft go with these guys,

http://www.borgeson.com/xcart/

highdesertranger

 

[MotorVation]

I took a while but I finally got the shaft to extend. It was caked with ***** dried up grease. Cleaned it up and greased it again.

Got it all back together. Took it for a short test drive in town. Nothing important fell off. I was able to get it up to 70 mph for about a minute in the wind and it felt pretty good. Tonight I'm going to take it out on the highway. I hope it stays windy long enough for me to get out on the bridges in it. The darn thing steers perfectly when there's no or light wind.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Doubleone]

"If your box need rebuilding I would go to a medium/heavy truck repair shop and ask them where they get their steering boxes rebuilt. the ones you get at a regular parts store are iffy at best, your chances of getting a good one is rare."

100% agree with HDR.  It's totally random quality with steering gear from parts stores, that's why I sent mine in to Redhead Steering Gear (link below).  They also do machining and upgrades depending on the box.  Not cheap, but done right.

https://redheadsteeringgears.com/aboutprocess/

 

[highdesertranger]

actually their prices aren't bad at all, that's right in the ballpark for a quality rebuild. thanks for the link. highdesertranger

 

[MotorVation]

I took the van out on the highway. It's a lot tighter. Unfortunately, it wasn't very windy but I did have a few trucks blast by me and I barely felt it in the steering wheel. I'm not going to say that it's perfect because I really need a few good blasts of wind from the side and preferably with traffic passing me at the same time to say the steering issue is solved. At one point I realized I was unconsciously driving with my wrist on top of the steering wheel so that would be a first with this van.

I contacted Red Head last week because their site didn't list a box for my van. They got back to me the next morning. Here's the body of the email:

,
The 2660L gear box will fit your 2002 Dodge Ram Van 3500. We have that unit on the shelf, rebuilt and ready to ship. We can also rebuild yours if you wanted. The cost would be the same, and the turnaround time for rebuilding yours would be 1-2 business days once we have your gear in house.

Part # 2660L - $336 +applicable taxes & shipping
Core Deposit - $200

On their site that box is listed as only covering up to 2001 Dodge 2500/3500 vans.
Here's the link to that box.
https://redheadsteeringgears.com/product/1994-2001-dodge-2500-3500-bram-vans/

I was lucky. Mine just needed to be adjusted but if need be in the future, I can get one.

I'll update once I can find some serious wind. You can't find a good blast of wind from the side when you're looking for one.

Next time I have the passenger side front wheel off, I'm going to prep and paint the frame horn on that side as a precaution. Pro tip: Wear a respirator. The worse part of the entire job was breathing the fumes. 

Thanks...

 

[Doubleone]

Sounds like you lucked out!   BTW, I also flush old power steering fluid by pouring in fresh at the same time catching waste from the return line.  It takes two people, one at the key.   I use one ounce of TransX before (drive it for a couple weeks) and one after fluid change.  Quiets noisy pumps and replasticizes the seals.

 

[MotorVation]

Yeah, I did luck out for sure.
Today I was driving in town and the over center adjustment felt a little tight. The steering was hyper sensitive.
I loosened it by about 1/8 of a turn. That's the way it's supposed to be done. Bearing pre-load then over center. I found a factory service manual for this van on Ebay not long after I bought the van. It's already paid for itself several times over. So, here's hoping it can handle strong winds....

After I installed the drag link, the steering wheel was off center by about 15- 20 degrees. After the bearing pre-load adjustment, it went back to center. That's how much it was off..

I think a front end alignment is in the cards now...

Thanks again..

 

[steamjam1]

Whenever I shop for Dodge vans, the first place I look even before I even start the engine are the frame horns, and even more importantly the idler arm mounts. On earlier vans they are bolt on, but later on Dodge started to weld them on, and those welds are especially prone to rust out.

 

[MotorVation]

I'm going to update this thread in case someone surfs onto it doing an internet search.

I did a lot of the work myself but couldn't get all the slop out of the front end. It needs upper control arms, all 4 ball joints and some other stuff.

I dropped it off at the shop today with a 1600. estimate including rear brake cylinders. I really hate to pay a shop but I need to get it done and done now. Me thinks that's what the emergency fund is for....

OUCH

 

[Doubleone]

Ooooh! Ouch! I do my own work so it's much less painful... A dry-park check will reveal what's loose and needs attention... Hopefully they'll get all the slop under control. I've also seen bushings on the front of the Dodge rear leaf springs deteriorate and contribute to roll steer. Might want to have them check that as well...

 

[MotorVation]

Yeah, I knew it needed ball joints/bushings but they were so bad it couldn't be aligned. After all the parts I did replace I was hoping to get by with that but it's not in the cards. When it's windy it's really bad. If I were just putting around Florida it wouldn't matter so much but it would be really easy to totally lose control in snow or ice. I don't want to drive off the side of a mountain and spill my coffee.

I'll check the bushings you mentioned. Thanks