Do you work/live without a net?

[Hippiechk]

I guess I am a unique situation for a couple of reasons. First I worked and saved very hard from a very early age. My grandmother always preached the importance of savings literally since I was around 7 years old. She opened up a joint savings account and anything I deposited she would deposit the same. It stuck with me when I was older and I bought my first house at 22 and paid it off by the time I was 30.
Secondly, I became disabled at 31 long before most people have to worry about their health. Had I not had a house paid for and some savings the last four years would have been extremely difficult to make it through financially and I am very thankful for my grandmother preaching as much as she preached.

So personally, I think if you can have a decent cushion it's def worth working towards as it's always better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
I am also young enough where I had a pretty good support group of friends, family, my mom, girlfriend, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.

I'm not 35 and hadn't ever planned on having kids, but now I wonder what it will be like when I'm older and maybe not having someone to rely on. I was there for my Dad, my grandparents, and my uncle when they were in need and was very glad I could be there to help them. It's kind of changing my views on wanting kids, although not totally for my own selfish reasons!, just seeing them as something that I think I might like to fit into my life. I cherish the time I had with my Dad growing up.....traveling, camping, fishing, etc. But if I don't ever have kids, i'll make sure to treat the nieces and nephews extra good on Birthdays and Christmas time and hope that buys me a little insurance!

Spoil yer nieces & nephews! *smile*

We do have quite parallel lives, I was disabled at age 33, had a paid for house & travel rig by then via that hard work route too.

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[SoulRaven]

It's not even so much that, what do you do while you're recovering?  Where do you stay?  Can't really imagine recovering from open heart surgery in a van while pooping in a bucket; seems like having kids to take you in is the best option, but without them you're a bit screwed.

This happens to me fairly often. Multi-day crisis I've experienced while vandwelling include: Food poisoning (I'm extremely sensitive to it, e.g. what gives you a mild stomachache sends me to the ER), fairly severe hypothermia (+ a weekish recovery high fever), a severely abscessed tooth and accompanying infection, suspected norovirus (there was an outbreak in my area and the ER said I was the 6th person that night to come in with the exact same symptoms), as well as an arm injury that included nerve damage, rendering my right arm useless for a few months. Most recently, too, the accident causing a cervical sprain, making me unable to drive for several weeks and in a fair bit of pain initially.

Honestly, I build safety nets wherever I go. I love integrating myself in a community, making connections and finding ways to be useful. I'm a kind, empathetic personality who's generally incapable if ill will, and enjoy listening and learning about people. I make friends quickly, and friends want to help each other out if needed.

When my old van broke down on multiple occasions, it was the acquaintances I had met just the week prior that offered me rides anywhere I needed to go and opened up their apartment to me. I've had more offers for places to stay in the past year that I know what to do with! My list of people I can call in case of emergency is long. I did not start out that way, but it naturally happens as I get to know people in the area.

This is one reason I'm hesitant to travel, especially alone, because it removes my safety net. And unfortunately my health is so messed up I end up needing a safety net pretty often.

After the accident, I've mainly been staying with my bf's family. Way back when my old van broke down beyond repair but the swapped replacement was not yet released to me, I live at an acquaintance's apartment for a few weeks, who now employs me for odd jobs and welcomes me to use the kitchen or spend the night whenever. Or when there's a need for a guaranteed place to chill with some of the comforts of home, it's in the driveway of another friend where we have an open invitation and the location of the hideakey. My parents are a few hours away, so that's an option I've utilized as well. Everyone mentioned in this paragraph is different from the ones who helped me "move into" my storage unit so I actually had space to live (this was when one arm was useless), which was different from those who gave me rides, which was different from ...well, you get the picture. I cobble together my safety net from lots of different sources depending on who's comfortable helping with what.

I feel one of the greatest downsides to traveling full time is the reduced availability of community. Community can provide and adequate safety net, in my experience. Not a perfect one, it's riskier especially if you don't know the person well, but it can be sufficient to get you through a fair number of things that would pull you under otherwise.

 

[Hippiechk]

This happens to me fairly often. Multi-day crisis I've experienced while vandwelling include: Food poisoning (I'm extremely sensitive to it, e.g. what gives you a mild stomachache sends me to the ER), fairly severe hypothermia (+ a weekish recovery high fever), a severely abscessed tooth and accompanying infection, suspected norovirus (there was an outbreak in my area and the ER said I was the 6th person that night to come in with the exact same symptoms), as well as an arm injury that included nerve damage, rendering my right arm useless for a few months. Most recently, too, the accident causing a cervical sprain, making me unable to drive for several weeks and in a fair bit of pain initially.

Honestly, I build safety nets wherever I go. I love integrating myself in a community, making connections and finding ways to be useful. I'm a kind, empathetic personality who's generally incapable if ill will, and enjoy listening and learning about people. I make friends quickly, and friends want to help each other out if needed.

When my old van broke down on multiple occasions, it was the acquaintances I had met just the week prior that offered me rides anywhere I needed to go and opened up their apartment to me. I've had more offers for places to stay in the past year that I know what to do with! My list of people I can call in case of emergency is long. I did not start out that way, but it naturally happens as I get to know people in the area.

This is one reason I'm hesitant to travel, especially alone, because it removes my safety net. And unfortunately my health is so messed up I end up needing a safety net pretty often.

After the accident, I've mainly been staying with my bf's family. Way back when my old van broke down beyond repair but the swapped replacement was not yet released to me, I was at an acquaintance's house who now employs me for odd jobs and welcomes me to use the kitchen or spend the night whenever. Or when there's a need for a guaranteed place to chill with some of the comforts of home, it's in the driveway of another friend where we have an open invitation and the location of the hideakey. My parents are a few hours away, so that's an option I've utilized as well. Everyone mentioned in this paragraph is different from the ones who helped me "move into" my storage unit so I actually had space to live (this was when one arm was useless), which was different from those who gave me rides, which was different from ...well, you get the picture. I cobble together my safety net from lots of different sources depending on who's comfortable helping with what.

I feel one of the greatest downsides to traveling full time is the reduced availability of community. Community can provide and adequate safety net, in my experience. Not a perfect one, it's riskier especially if you don't know the person well, but it can be sufficient to get you through a fair number of things that would pull you under otherwise.

This CRVL community can be pretty awesome in a crisis. I wrote off my vehicle & me too a couple years back...I only needed a possible physical hand and the offers were swift & genuine. I did not know a soul in Montana then! Now I have friends in that community...crisis does that to most people.

I ended up reaching my own safety net but it was a comfort!

And, because it's a community of individuals...I got some flack *laugh*...you can NEVER please everyone!

With chronic fragile health your concerns are valid...there are resources out there were you least expect them too though. A lot of full time rvers are retired military...thick as thieves in most camping areas! *smile*

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[akrvbob]

There are really two issues here:

1) Money to meet your needs.
2) People to help you through the worst of it.

MONEY: With the money issue, I think you're better off in a van or RV because you can live so much cheaper. With a very low income you will qualify for more assistance than the middle class which often gets screwed out of help. You did choose a state of residence that offers expanded medicaid didn't you!! That's an advantage a nomad has, choose the state with the best safety net. By the way, that's not SD FL or TX, none of them offer expanded medicaid. Nevada is one of the few with zero income tax that does offer it.

So, the nasty stuff hits the fan and you live in a van. What do you do for money? There are LOTS of really cheap RV parks in Arizona, you want to get one the closest to a major city. You can almost certainly find one for $200 a month or less. Then, sign up for expanded medicaid, and buy a window air conditioner. Your pretty well covered, probably better off then anyone in a house.

HELP FROM PEOPLE: About people to take care of you: of course the best solution is family, and that has nothing to do with living in a house or a van. They either take you in or they don't. In fact, it would be much easier many times if you can come and park in the driveway and be close but not too close. You run an extension cord, and they learn how to dump your porta potti. You both get privacy and you get care with the least cost to them.

But what about friends to help? I am 1000 times better off as a nomad to have friends who would take care of me than when I lived in a house!!!! We have a connection that is rare to house-dwellers!!

Oddly, this is an issue I am dealing with right now in a big way. In fact I am in talks with people to possibly set up a charity for vandwellers. We think the paperwork of a formal charity would be too grievous, but we are almost certainly setting up an informal charity.

A very good friend of mine broke his shoulder and blew the engine in his van in less than a week. His vandweller friends have surrounded him with support and he has lacked for nothing. He ran a gofundme campaign and it raised enough for a new motor in one day.

Since then I've been contacted by another vandweller friend. His arthritis has gotten so bad he can't live in his van. So he'll sell his cargo trailer and move into an RV in an RV park, but he needs help to buy it. I'll do all I can to see he gets that help.

Both of those guys are much better off by being in a tribe than they would have been by struggling along in an apartment.

If you want to know more about my plans for an informal charity, see this post. It's in it's infancy yet, I have no idea what the future holds for it:
http://www.cheaprvliving.com/blog/sometimes-need-helping-hand/
Bob

 

[ilovemyvan]

There are really two issues here:

1) Money to meet your needs.
2) People to help you through the worst of it.

MONEY: With the money issue, I think you're better off in a van or RV because you can live so much cheaper. With a very low income you will qualify for more assistance than the middle class which often gets screwed out of help. You did choose a state of residence that offers expanded medicaid didn't you!! That's an advantage a nomad has, choose the state with the best safety net.  By the way, that's not SD FL or TX, none of them offer expanded medicaid. Nevada is one of the few with zero income tax that does offer it.

So, the nasty stuff hits the fan and you live in a van. What do you do for money? There are LOTS of really cheap RV parks in Arizona, you want to get one the closest to a major city. You can almost certainly find one for $200 a month or less. Then, sign up for expanded medicaid, and buy a window air conditioner. Your  pretty well covered, probably better off then anyone in a house.

HELP FROM PEOPLE: About people to take care of you: of course the best solution is family, and that has nothing to do with living in a house or a van. They either take you in or they don't. In fact, it would be much easier many times if you can come and park in the driveway and be close but not too close. You run an extension cord, and they learn how to dump your porta potti. You both get privacy and you get care with the least cost to them.

But what about friends to help? I am 1000 times better off as a nomad to have friends who would take care of me than when I lived in a house!!!! We have a connection that is rare to house-dwellers!!

Oddly, this is an issue I am dealing with right now in a big way. In fact I am in talks with people to possibly set up a charity for vandwellers. We think the paperwork of a formal charity would be too grievous, but we are almost certainly setting up an informal charity.  

A very good friend of mine broke his shoulder and blew the engine in his van in less than a week. His vandweller friends have surrounded him with support and he has lacked for nothing. He ran a gofundme campaign and it raised enough for a new motor in one day.

Since then I've been contacted by another vandweller friend. His arthritis has gotten so bad he can't live in his van. So he'll sell his cargo trailer and move into an RV in an RV park, but he needs help to buy it. I'll do all I can to see he gets that help.

Both of those guys are much better off by being in a tribe than they would have been by struggling along in an apartment.

If you want to know more about my plans for an informal charity, see this post. It's in it's infancy yet, I have no idea what the future holds for it:
http://www.cheaprvliving.com/blog/sometimes-need-helping-hand/
Bob

Bob, I think what you are planning to do is wonderful. You have the biggest heart :heart: I'm sure there is a lot of good karma coming your way.

One thing I'd like to say is that you still can belong to a tribe (skydiver in our case) while living in a S&B. We received so much support and love, it was overwhelming. We even had 2 friends coming over the day after John was hospitalize to finish the replacement of a double door. The amount of help that was offered brought tears to my eyes many times. Living in a S&B doesn't mean gloom and doom. Everyone is different, in our case, we like having both S&B and a van. We physically build our home and we love it, just like we love our van. I would be devastated if we had to move into the van. We did our traveling and now we enjoy something else.

I agree with you that their are solutions for people that have to give up roaming for health reasons other than moving in a S&B. However in some cases, like what just happened to us, you wouldn't have time to set it all up. Frankly we would have been absolutely miserable living in the van here in Florida. It's already in the 90's some days. Yes, we could have bought a home a/c but I'm not strong enough any more to install it in the window myself. What about leaving to go to all the follow up appointments, who would have move the a/c unit? John had a total of 90 staples that needed special care to avoid infection. We don't have a shower in the van, how would we have handle that?

I'm saying all of this to gave a bit of a reality check that not all medical emergencies can be dealt with in a van and that sometimes you don't have the time to make some other arrangements. Please do yourself a favor and have a plan B.

Nicole

 

[Hippiechk]

There are really two issues here:

1) Money to meet your needs.
2) People to help you through the worst of it.

MONEY: With the money issue, I think you're better off in a van or RV because you can live so much cheaper. With a very low income you will qualify for more assistance than the middle class which often gets screwed out of help. You did choose a state of residence that offers expanded medicaid didn't you!! That's an advantage a nomad has, choose the state with the best safety net. By the way, that's not SD FL or TX, none of them offer expanded medicaid. Nevada is one of the few with zero income tax that does offer it.

So, the nasty stuff hits the fan and you live in a van. What do you do for money? There are LOTS of really cheap RV parks in Arizona, you want to get one the closest to a major city. You can almost certainly find one for $200 a month or less. Then, sign up for expanded medicaid, and buy a window air conditioner. Your pretty well covered, probably better off then anyone in a house.

HELP FROM PEOPLE: About people to take care of you: of course the best solution is family, and that has nothing to do with living in a house or a van. They either take you in or they don't. In fact, it would be much easier many times if you can come and park in the driveway and be close but not too close. You run an extension cord, and they learn how to dump your porta potti. You both get privacy and you get care with the least cost to them.

But what about friends to help? I am 1000 times better off as a nomad to have friends who would take care of me than when I lived in a house!!!! We have a connection that is rare to house-dwellers!!

Oddly, this is an issue I am dealing with right now in a big way. In fact I am in talks with people to possibly set up a charity for vandwellers. We think the paperwork of a formal charity would be too grievous, but we are almost certainly setting up an informal charity.

A very good friend of mine broke his shoulder and blew the engine in his van in less than a week. His vandweller friends have surrounded him with support and he has lacked for nothing. He ran a gofundme campaign and it raised enough for a new motor in one day.

Since then I've been contacted by another vandweller friend. His arthritis has gotten so bad he can't live in his van. So he'll sell his cargo trailer and move into an RV in an RV park, but he needs help to buy it. I'll do all I can to see he gets that help.

Both of those guys are much better off by being in a tribe than they would have been by struggling along in an apartment.

If you want to know more about my plans for an informal charity, see this post. It's in it's infancy yet, I have no idea what the future holds for it:
http://www.cheaprvliving.com/blog/sometimes-need-helping-hand/
Bob

Interesting!

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[Queen]

Bob - wonderful as usual, thanks for the deeply detailed reply. Love the idea of a charity as well as the tribe that helps one another, that is sorely lacking in the conventional world.

I was in the same boat as Nicoles husband after my surgery, infection was a huge issue as well as mobility. Family isn't an option for me as my "lifestyle" offends them too much. So a tribe would be a far better choice.

Just a thought, as a way to help members of the tribe who are hurting and either need short term help or transition help... maybe the charity could obtain a mobile home in an inexpensive place so people would have somewhere to go while they heal and/or figure out their next steps? I imagine it would be a paperwork nightmare though. Just thinking as we go.

 

[MrNoodly]

For me it came down to the choice of living a life I wasn't enjoying—but with a certain amount of safety—or living a life I love without a safety net. I chose the latter, because even if something bad or even life-ending happened, I would have had that time living the way I wanted. What's the point of a prolonging a life I'm not enjoying?

Besides, I think safety is mostly an illusion. Shit happens to building dwellers. They get sick, they go broke, they get swindled, their homes break down or burn up or get destroyed in natural disasters... But they feel safe because it's the way most people live. They're doing the normal thing, the familiar thing, so it must be the best choice, the safe choice.

I think danger is also mostly an illusion. We convince ourselves all sorts of things might happen to us, but they never do—not because of our vigilance, but because they were never going to happen anyway. Since the mobile life is unfamiliar, we can convince ourselves there are even more dangers out there waiting to get us. There aren't more dangers, just different ones.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

There are ways to be part of a tribe living in a sticks and bricks as well. It's more the person and their mindset/personality that dictates whether they are a part of a "tribe" more than where they live. For instance, I belong to the local rifle range and have been a member there for the last 20 years. It's a non profit organization and we have about 3000 members. Whenever someone gets sick, the club puts on a fundraiser and members help one another out as needed whether it be help making a house handicap accessible, rides to/from Drs, meals, etc etc. Aside from members getting sick, they host social events a few times a month, cookouts, shooting events, bowling, motorcycle rides, etc.

You have to want to be part of something, take any interest in the world, and there is almost certainly a group of people doing it you can join and be part of. So many people get so caught up in their own little world and bubble they never stop and take time to do the things the really enjoy and be part of something that's bigger than themselves.

Van life just so happens to be one of those great things you can be part of. I'm kind of torn because I love living and traveling out of a vehicle and love that you can live so cheaply while doing it. But I equally love what a sticks and bricks gives me which is my home workshop for woodworking and I also enjoy having a large garden and raising chickens and providing myself with my own food, so Ive done the best I can by mixing the two and taking extended road trips when the itch to travel needs to be scratched.

 

[Bast]

Hi
Is there a link to a gofundme page for the gentleman who needs the RV.
Sarah

 

[akrvbob]

I agree with you that their are solutions for people that have to give up roaming for health reasons other than moving in a S&B. However in some cases, like what just happened to us, you wouldn't have time to set it all up. Frankly we would have been absolutely miserable living in the van here in Florida. It's already in the 90's some days. Yes, we could have bought a home a/c but I'm not strong enough any more to install it in the window myself. What about leaving to go to all the follow up appointments, who would have move the a/c unit? John had a total of 90 staples that needed special care to avoid infection. We don't have a shower in the van, how would we have handle that?

I'm saying all of this to gave a bit of a reality check that not all medical emergencies can be dealt with in a van and that sometimes you don't have the time to make some other arrangements. Please do yourself a favor and have a plan B.

Nicole

Nicole, not to be argumentative, but if you follow my standard advice to have $4000 in an emergency fund, you already have a plan B. Lets take your case of a sudden medical emergency. With $4000 you could easily have rented a motel for a month while you found a $2000 used travel trailer and got it into an RV Park. That's still going to be very cheap living, probably less than you would be paying in a house. $200 will buy you a portable air conditioner you roll around and the trailer stays home while you drive the van, you have all hook-ups in the park.

Once the crisis is over, you can sell the travel trailer for close to what you paid for it and be on your way. What if it's going to be a permanent change in your life? You stay in the RV Park and adapt to your new reality.

Or, you can sell the trailer, fly to Arizona, buy a trailer and put it in a desert park for less then $200 a month. Stay there for 6 months of the year then tow it up to Flagstaff for the other 6 months--not a bad new reality. You can rent in Quartzsite for $179 a month.

I have a friend with an RV in a RV Resort in Brenda, AZ. Costs him $178  MONTH if he stays year-around--he pays for the whole year. It truly is a resort, it has a pool, the sites are 50 feet wide, and every one of them has a palm tree in it. Not a bad life!

One more thing, I know you are just taking trips in your van, but my general recommendation to couples is not to LIVE in a van. I recommend a Class C, it's just more practical. A few couples can live in a van, but it takes special people in my opinion.

If you live and travel in a Class C. Getting too old or having a medical emergency is no more difficult than renting a space in an RV Park. Other than being cheaper it's not really any different than living in a house.
Bob

 

[Stargazer]

What Bob says ^^

I live in an RV park in a very comfortable fifth wheel, still have my van for road trips. It is truly a Community, which I never saw in any of my S&B's, where you barely knew your neighbors. I think that's because many of the folks here are retired and available, while my house neighbors all worked and weren't home much, and when they were, they were so busy you rarely saw each other.

One of our RV park neighbors is disabled. Her husband had been her caregiver for years. He became suddenly very ill and was hospitalized for several months before he died (never came back home). The folks here all pitched in and took care of her, rides to wherever she needed to go, meals (to the point where she begged us to stop because she had food enough for weeks!), chores around her site (dumping her tanks, refilling her propane bottles, etc.), walking her little dog. Her grown children all lived far away.

She is now moving into an assisted living apartment near one of her children. We'll miss her. But the way this community pitched in was pretty amazing.

I guess I'll stay here. And it's not like many may think. Nice place and when I do hit the road, people keep an eye on my rig while I'm gone. I don't know what'll happen if my good health should fail. My grown children frequently say they'd welcome me in their homes. Who knows?

As for money for health care, one of my neighbors has a very bad heart AND cancer in partial remission. He has no $$$ left, only Medicare, and he gets treatments every two weeks, the hospital has admitted and cared for him twice in the past two months. They accept whatever Medicare pays, knowing he can't pay anything more. And the care he is getting has been very good.

 

[ilovemyvan]

One more thing, I know you are just taking trips in your van, but my general recommendation to couples is not to LIVE in a van. I recommend a Class C, it's just more practical. A few couples can live in a van, but it takes special people in my opinion.

If you live and travel in a Class C. Getting too old or having a medical emergency is no more difficult than renting a space in an RV Park. Other than being cheaper it's not really any different than living in a house.
Bob

Bob, I was reading your reply with a bit of skepticism until I reached the part about couple in a van as oppose to a Class C and that's when it finally felt into place. Makes plenty of sense. The only thing I question is the size of the emergency fund. The insurance deductible alone was $5,000, sorry I lied, $4,700. So I guess I should re-phrase: Make sure you have enough of an emergency fund(insurance deductible + a bit more) to take care of emergencies.

I'm looking forward to a gofundme that I trust.

Nicole

 

[ilovemyvan]

The insurance deductible alone was $5,000, sorry I lied, $4,700. So I guess I should re-phrase: Make sure you have enough of an emergency fund(insurance deductible + a bit more) to take care of emergencies.    
 

I lied again the $4,700 is the total out of pocket (deductible and co-payments)- Time to really wake up with a second cup of coffee.

 

[Queen]

... One of our RV park neighbors is disabled. Her husband had been her caregiver for years. He became suddenly very ill and was hospitalized for several months before he died (never came back home). The folks here all pitched in and took care of her, rides to wherever she needed to go, meals (to the point where she begged us to stop because she had food enough for weeks!), chores around her site (dumping her tanks, refilling her propane bottles, etc.), walking her little dog. Her grown children all lived far away.

She is now moving into an assisted living apartment near one of her children. We'll miss her. But the way this community pitched in was pretty amazing.

I guess I'll stay here. And it's not like many may think. Nice place and when I do hit the road, people keep an eye on my rig while I'm gone. I don't know what'll happen if my good health should fail. My grown children frequently say they'd welcome me in their homes. Who knows?

Now that is just flat out cool! Reminds me of growing up on military bases all over the world, we all took care ofeach other.

Bob, I was reading your reply with a bit of skepticism until I reached the part about couple in a van as oppose to a Class C and that's when it finally felt into place. Makes plenty of sense.

Nicole

Agree 100%, I kept trying to figure out how we could do it in a van and thought "maybe when we were in our 20's and more fit/able, but not now", a Class C would be much more doable.

 

[rvpopeye]

My experience in any of the the Escapees parks was much like Stargazer's.
They are very much a big family and everyone is welcomed with a hug (or handshake it hugs scare you). I didn't experience any class attitudes because my rig was less grand than my neighbors either.

I have always tried to have an emergency fund, 5K minimum when I am on the road.

My motorhome will become a parked home if I need to deal with a health emergency like Bob said.
Maybe at "the old geezer camp" if one ever becomes a reality !

 

[Queen]

My experience in any of the the Escapees parks was much like Stargazer's.
They are very much a big family and everyone is welcomed with a hug (or handshake it hugs scare you). I didn't experience any class attitudes because my rig was less grand than my neighbors either.

I have always tried to have an emergency fund, 5K minimum when I am on the road.

My motorhome will become a parked home if I need to deal with a health emergency like Bob said.
Maybe at "the old geezer camp" if one ever becomes a reality !

Hey popeye, got a question for you... have you ever seen any gay couples at an Escapees park?  If so, were people cool about it?  My honey and I are a bit gun-shy after the reception we got here in FL.

 

[rvpopeye]

Q
I really can't remember if I have or not , not something I usually pay much attention to.
So that would make me think I haven't seen it.
In general they are as a group very easy to befriend. I suppose there might be some that might be less so but also would say the percentage would probably be less than elsewhere.

If you pick one Escapee to ask (me , for 16 years now) it wouldn't bother me a bit.

 

[Queen]

Thanks, popeye.  If we ever go the Escapee route I'm going to pick your brain a bunch.  

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Hey popeye, got a question for you... have you ever seen any gay couples at an Escapees park?  If so, were people cool about it?  My honey and I are a bit gun-shy after the reception we got here in FL.

Escapees have sub-groups they call "Birds of a Feather"  as in "flock together".  Typically, they're things like a photography club, a ham radio club, geocachers, etc.

Turns out there's a Stonewall BOF.  details here:

https://www.escapees.com/2-site-pages/357-stonewall