diesel or gas

[greg63]

Hello and thanks,Was wondering how diesel would be instead of gas?Anyone travel around there with diesel and if so how do u like it..thanks

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

You're going to get a lot of responses to that question, both positive and negative.  Next time, why don't you ask something non-controversial, like Ford or Chevy?

People who pull big heavy trailers LOVE diesel pickups, they have significantly more torque than gas engines do.  The downside is that transmissions need to be significantly beefed up to handle the extra torque.  Stock factory trannys often have problems behind a diesel.

It used to be that diesel fuel cost less than gasoline, so they were cheaper to run.  However, since the government mandated that all diesel must now be super ultra low sulfur, it requires a lot more processing at the refinery and it's no longer cheaper.

Diesel engines are a lot more expensive than gas engines.  When you buy a new truck, the diesel option is usually 4 or 5 thousand more than the baseline gas motor, and used diesel trucks tend to hold that price differential.

You can usually get a lot more miles out of a diesel than you can a gas engine.  When a diesel DOES have problems,  it can be a LOT more expensive to fix.

Personally, I don't consider a diesel to be worth the added expense.  But a lot of people here will disagree with me.

Regards
John

PS:  Some diesels are famous for being great motors - the Ford 7.3 liter diesels fall into that category.  Others are notorious for being trouble prone and expensive - the various 6 liter Ford diesels that replaced the 7.3 fall into that category.  Do your research before you buy, certain years and engines need to be avoided.  To be fair, the same can be said about certain gas engines as well - like the Ford 5.4 liter.

 

[Almost There]

Strictly gas!

For me it's not a question of cost or economy or engine life or pulling power!

It's simply that I grew up around gas engines. I know enough about a gas engine to know when a mechanic in east nowhere is trying to take advantage of the fact that I'm female, blonde and have out of state plates (trust me it happens more than you think).  I also know enough to know whether it's okay to proceed to the next exit, get it off the road immediately or nurse it to a repair shop.

I thought about diesel and then realized I didn't know a darn thing about them or how they worked. This didn't and wouldn't sit well with me!

 

[GotSmart]

Diesel or Gas.

Depends on what I have been eating.  

I prefer gas, but if I started towing I would go with Diesel.  I can work on a gas engine.

 

[greg63]

You're going to get a lot of responses to that question, both positive and negative.  Next time, why don't you ask something non-controversial, like Ford or Chevy?

People who pull big heavy trailers LOVE diesel pickups, they have significantly more torque than gas engines do.  The downside is that transmissions need to be significantly beefed up to handle the extra torque.  Stock factory trannys often have problems behind a diesel.

It used to be that diesel fuel cost less than gasoline, so they were cheaper to run.  However, since the government mandated that all diesel must now be super ultra low sulfur, it requires a lot more processing at the refinery and it's no longer cheaper.

Diesel engines are a lot more expensive than gas engines.  When you buy a new truck, the diesel option is usually 4 or 5 thousand more than the baseline gas motor, and used diesel trucks tend to hold that price differential.

You can usually get a lot more miles out of a diesel than you can a gas engine.  When a diesel DOES have problems,  it can be a LOT more expensive to fix.

Personally, I don't consider a diesel to be worth the added expense.  But a lot of people here will disagree with me.

Regards
John

PS:  Some diesels are famous for being great motors - the Ford 7.3 liter diesels fall into that category.  Others are notorious for being trouble prone and expensive - the various 6 liter Ford diesels that replaced the 7.3 fall into that category.  Do your research before you buy, certain years and engines need to be avoided.  To be fair, the same can be said about certain gas engines as well - like the Ford 5.4 liter.

John i think i will be going with the chevy cargo van,But have alot to think about ..Greg63

 

[greg63]

Strictly gas!

For me it's not a question of cost or economy or engine life or pulling power!

It's simply that I grew up around gas engines. I know enough about a gas engine to know when a mechanic in east nowhere is trying to take advantage of the fact that I'm female, blonde and have out of state plates (trust me it happens more than you think).  I also know enough to know whether it's okay to proceed to the next exit, get it off the road immediately or nurse it to a repair shop.

I thought about diesel and then realized I didn't know a darn thing about them or how they worked. This didn't and wouldn't sit well with me!

Im thinking a chevy van, with a v8 gas,But have alot to think about.With these new motors i would think only the shop can work on them..

 

[greg63]

Diesel or Gas.

Depends on what I have been eating.  

I prefer gas, but if I started towing I would go with Diesel.  I can work on a gas engine.

HaHa Thats true..I have alot to think about..greg63

 

[Seraphim]

I haven't noticed the vehicle maintenance of a diesel being that much more costly. Even though not required, I change oil every 3000 miles, and that's a greater expenses because the diesel takes 10 quarts. Mine is a one ton truck with HD towing package. Brake pads are more expensive, but that's not relevant to the engine type. Newer Diesel engines require DEF fluid - about 10 gallons every 4000 miles (~$20). Recently, in our area, diesel has been lower than regular gas by a few pennies to 15 - 20 cents per gallon. I wouldn't count on that long term.

Essentially, it depends if you want or need the low end power a diesel provides, or are looking for long term endurance of a Diesel engine. If you want top end horsepower, go far a gas engine. Same if you want to keep the initial purchase cost lower. My diesel is rated somewhere around 38 hp (+\- 10 hp) but it generates that hp at a lower rpm. My cruising engine speed is under 1500 rpm. But, I have acceleration at highway speeds and don't notice heavy hills or mountains. Should we change from a TC to a trailer or fifth wheel, or decide to pull a trailer behind the truck camper, power isn't an issue.

So look at your rig configuration to decide what you need. Also, look down the road to decide if you have enough vehicle to handle whatever changes you make down the road, to save the added expense of a future upgrade.

 

[Seraphim]

Also, I haven't taken apart a Diesel engine, but I doubt the learning curve would be much different from a gas engine. Simpler, perhaps, but don't quote me on that...

 

[ZoNiE]

Diesel was also usually more expensive because it takes more raw oil to make a gallon of it than gasoline.

I tow with a very small Gas V8. I'd love a Diesel, but the only 1500 series truck with one right now is the Dodge, and the 3 liter V6 is just a bit too small. It'd be about what I have now, but at least I'd be getting 20 MPG without the trailer.

I rented a Dodge Hemi a while back, and was totally shocked that I averaged 19MPG driving it around all week. I only get 14-15 with my Ford Explorer V8.

I may consider a Hemi next go around, even though I'm not a big fan of the Dodge trucks. I am waiting to see how the new Cummins 5 liter V8 Diesel fares in the Nissan and Toyota trucks coming soon

Unless you are pulling a big 5'er, the Diesel 1 ton HD trucks are not worth the extra money.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Also, I haven't taken apart a Diesel engine, but I doubt the learning curve would be much different from a gas engine.  Simpler, perhaps, but don't quote me on that...

Keep in mind that pretty much ALL the modern diesels aren't "just" diesels, they're TURBO-diesels with inter-coolers and all the extra complexity THAT adds.

Regards
John

 

[greg63]

Keep in mind that pretty much ALL the modern diesels aren't "just" diesels, they're TURBO-diesels with inter-coolers and all the extra complexity THAT adds.

Regards
John

Yes thats true,Back in the day i could work on my own car etc,My dad was in the navy to start and was a diesel man.Saying that diesels are drity motors to work on,And guess also many more filters to change so ive been told.
  thanks
greg

 

[Seraphim]

Keep in mind that pretty much ALL the modern diesels aren't "just" diesels, they're TURBO-diesels with inter-coolers and all the extra complexity THAT adds.

Regards
John

True; but the system is basically the same as the gasoline system, which was my point.  A turbo doesn't care if it's diesel or gasoline powered. Nor does a SC, for that matter. Nor do the Pistons or the driveshaft. Early DIY car SCs were adapted from scavenged diesel truck units. Before my time of course *cough*. 
 My point was, if you can work on a gas engine, it doesn't take much additional learning to work on a diesel.

 

[Seraphim]

It's mostly working your head around glow plugs vs spark plugs. Basic design is actually a bit simpler.

 

[Seraphim]

Diesel was also usually more expensive because it takes more raw oil to make a gallon of it than gasoline.

I tow with a very small Gas V8. I'd love a Diesel, but the only 1500 series truck with one right now is the Dodge, and the 3 liter V6 is just a bit too small. It'd be about what I have now, but at least I'd be getting 20 MPG without the trailer.

I rented a Dodge Hemi a while back, and was totally shocked that I averaged 19MPG driving it around all week. I only get 14-15 with my Ford Explorer V8.

I may consider a Hemi next go around, even though I'm not a big fan of the Dodge trucks. I am waiting to see how the new Cummins 5 liter V8 Diesel fares in the Nissan and Toyota trucks coming soon

Unless you are pulling a big 5'er, the Diesel 1 ton HD trucks are not worth the extra money.

I disagree about the cost of manufacturing diesel. Making gasoline requires several additional refinement steps, which is why it's cleaner than diesel inherently. More costly. For the first four or so decades of my life, diesel was cheaper than gas at the pumps.  Then the government's - state HD fed - began taxing diesel more heavily, and industry and truckers had to pay. A person driving a gas powered car can reduce his pleasure mileage and reduce his fuel bill.  When this happens on a nationwide scale, manufacturers reduce the fuel price to encourage usage again. Truck drivers and industries rely on diesel, and have to buy the same amount whatever the cost. There's no incentive  for manufacturers to reduce diesel prices. So it doesn't fluctuate as drastically as gas prices.

 

[ZoNiE]

I disagree about the cost of manufacturing diesel. Making gasoline requires several additional refinement steps, which is why it's cleaner than diesel inherently. More costly. For the first four or so decades of my life, diesel was cheaper than gas at the pumps.  Then the government's - state HD fed - began taxing diesel more heavily, and industry and truckers had to pay. A person driving a gas powered car can reduce his pleasure mileage and reduce his fuel bill.  When this happens on a nationwide scale, manufacturers reduce the fuel price to encourage usage again. Truck drivers and industries rely on diesel, and have to buy the same amount whatever the cost. There's no incentive  for manufacturers to reduce diesel prices. So it doesn't fluctuate as drastically as gas prices.

I used to think that, and to a point, it is partially true. I used to think gas should be more expensive because of the additional steps in the cracking and also the additives, but a friend in the petro industry told me, it is mostly because of the amount of oil needed.

In the EU, they tax gasoline higher, so the pleasure users pay more. Hence, they all drive diesels over there.

 

[greg63]

I used to think that, and to a point, it is partially true. I used to think gas should be more expensive because of the additional steps in the cracking and also the additives, but a friend in the petro industry told me, it is mostly because of the amount of oil needed.

In the EU, they tax gasoline higher, so the pleasure users pay more. Hence, they all drive diesels over there.

Well i have some time before i pick a rig to head out in.Thankyou all for your input it really helps.I think maybe a chevy van conversion with a small 15 ft travel trailer that i can tow.

 

[Seraphim]

http://www.nacsonline.com/YourBusin...ages/Why-Diesel-Costs-More-Than-Gasoline.aspx

Cost of diesel vs gas...

 

[Seraphim]

Good luck with whatever you choose, Greg

 

[highdesertranger]

well I will add my 2cents. both gas and diesel and any other internal combustion engine works on the same principle. the basic fire triangle. fuel, air, heat. the difference is that a gasser uses a sparkplug for the heat part, a diesel uses the heat generated by compressing air. older diesels are a much more simpler engine then gas engine. however the newer ones are quite complex, as are the gassers. I personally do not like all the complexity that goes with modern engines gas or diesel, I will trade a few mpg for reliability. if I were to choose I would go with a pre computer diesel. further more without getting political the price of diesel today is spiked because of the government, just like everything else. west Texas intermediate can almost go from well to engine in the older engines. the refinery cost are minimal. this brings up another point the older diesels can run off a variety of fuels. wvo, wmo, vo, kero, home heating oil, etc. if that's important to you. my rant is over, good luck. highdesertranger