conversion van vs camper van.. stealth concerns

[sephiro499]

Would there be much of a difference between a conversion van or a camper van as far as stealth goes? I will be staying in a predominately suburban (county outside of baltimore) area to attend school. Plan on staying in 24hr grocery parking lots, hotel, walmart.

The roadtrek comes across as very alluring due to all the amenities. A conversion van would be cheaper and assumingly easier and cheaper to work on, also easier to find and buy. The fiberglass high-top appears to make solar installation more complicated.

Could buy a new conversion van for what I could buy a used roadtrek.

 

[LeeRevell]

Most Conversion Vans have the same medium hightop that the smaller Roadtrek 170 has, such as my E150 Conversion Van.  Then you have the added time and expense of ripping the seats out and installing your live-in gear.  Appearance externally is much the same, less the various vents and access panels the  Conversion Van would have.  Most non-vanning folks won't see the difference in them.  Solar shouldn't be anything more than for a regular top van, you just need to get access under the fiberglass top to build in some reinforcement for the attaching points.  That'll be the same on a medium top Conversion Van or the RT.

 

[sephiro499]

Thank you, that was my guess, that the non rv person wouldn't notice a different between a roadtrek and the ubiquitous conversion van. I would use the flexible renology solar panels that the manufacturer literally recommends you install with industrial velcro!

 

[akrvbob]

The average person may not know the difference, but a cop or a security patrol does.

In my opinion, if stealth is critical, then a conversion van is a much better choice.
Bob

 

[sephiro499]

The average person may not know the difference, but a cop or a security patrol does.

In my opinion, if stealth is critical, then a conversion van is a much better choice.
Bob

That's part of my problem; I don't know if stealth is important or not since I've never done this! I've lived in the area I want to stay in for years and don't recall security. Then again I've never hung out in the parking lot at night.

 

[B and C]

Older Roadtreks also have a dropped floor pan so standing is easy.  I think my headroom is 6'2".  I would have to check the specs for sure.  I do get comments on it being a very large van though.  Clearance is 8'6".

You know your area probably a lot better than anyone here.  Have you been looking around to see if others are "stealth camping"?  What are they using?  Can you park at the school and change parking spots daily?  Park in a friends driveway on occasion?  The more places you have to park, the better off you will be.  Someone with a farm to let you rent "pasture" space?  Just trying to give you ideas to think about.  Think of where you can park and what will fit in.

Brian

 

[SoulRaven]

Then again I've never hung out in the parking lot at night.

I'd recommend picking a night to drive around, maybe 11pm or so, drive around and park in the areas your're thinking of parking. Notice what stands out, what blends in.

I ended up switching to a minivan from a conversion van specifically for stealth. When I first set out I wasn't quite certain where I'd end up, but once I got established I realized I was most comfortable parking in uptown suburbia, where my old conversion van stood out like a sore thumb. People would do double-takes, kids would ask about it, teenagers would remark how ugly it was as they passed by and the owner of the private mailbox knew me by vehicle. I cringed. I could count the number of cargo vans in the area on a single hand, and I know them all by sight, as everyone else undoubtedly knew mine.

As a disabled young woman who's often alone, stealth is imperative to my personal safety. As an example, when I first moved to the area and put my stuff in storage, Creepy Inappropriate Guy behind the desk made it a point to mention several times that he recognized my van...while leering at me. He also questioned me about my use of the private mailbox address, only because he happened to know there were no apartmetns on that street. And I'm standing there kicking myself.

Switching to a minivan, especially a new-ish popular model ('04 Sienna) means that suddenly I can be lazier about parking. No one regognizes my van but me. I often find the exact same generation model and color parked within a block of me, if not more. And I no longer feel the need to rotate acutal areas, like I used to - now I rotate between parts of neighborhood, not between multiple neighborhoods.

There are places I could have parked the conversion van where it would have blended in just fine, with lots of other RV's and full timers, many living in non-operational vehicles. I didn't feel safe in those places, though. Also, parking in downtown Seattle with a full size van is practically out of the question. In a minivan, I find it doable.

Only you can know your area. It's possible the first vehicle you pick won't be ideal, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll have problems -- if you're careful it'll likely only mean that you have to move around more, or you can't park as close to where you'd prefer to. Things like that.

 

[sephiro499]

I'll be staying in a very busy suburban sprawl area, east side of balitmore county,MD. I figured I'll just get lost in all of the cars. I use to live in Perry Hall and there are literally a ton of 24hr grocery stores within just a few miles. Once Johns Hopkins moved into that area it just exploded.

No one who can help it lives in the City of Baltimore so they all commute and live in the county. That is part of why there is so much through traffic in that area.

Next week I'll be back in that area for therapy and I might just 'hang out' until around 11pm and cruise my potential sleeping spots.

 

[akrvbob]

I took it from your original post that you would be on campus, where stealth is critical usually, but it sounds like it may not be. Here's a couple ways to figure it out.

1) If there is a Walmart in the area, go in and ask the night manager if you can sleep in the parking lot overnight. His/her answer will tell you a whole lot. If they say no, then you know the city probably has a bug up their butt and you need to be stealthy (although it could be the land owner is the problem so ask her why not). If they say yes you can, then stealth is a low priority.
2) Go to the local police station and ask! What have you got to lose? Park a distance away and walk so they don't see your van and the odds of ever seeing the officer at the desk again are almost non-existent. Be honest, tell them you are going to school and can't afford housing, you don't want to break the law, can you park in a van overnight? If he says absolutely not and if you do you'll be arrested, well, make stealth a top priority. Of course he can't give you permission to break the law, but his overall tone will tell you how they feel about it.

Finally, give serious thought to cragislist ad offering $100 to sleep 8 hours in someones parking lot. Chances are you'll get lots of answers and not running around from place to place might cost you more in gas.

Bob

 

[Anans1]

I don't have a lick of stealth to my rig and I manage just fine. You just have to park in places where people won't mind you camping, and move around a lot. The extra space and comfort is worth the extra planning imo, especially if you're going to be living there for a long time.

 

[DannyB1954]

I am told that the Japanese have a saying. The nail that sticks up will get hammered. If there are a lot of high top vans, then having one isn't a problem. If yours is the only one, you will be noticed.
Most of the van conversions I have looked at didn't have enough room to stand up in. They are made just tall enough so passengers don't have to crawl in to get to the back seats.

I knew a guy who stealth camped in a 4 door car. He bought a cheap car cover for it, spray painted the license number on the back, (I think this did a couple of things. It kept others from wanting to steal it, and if the plate number was run it would come up as the correct type vehicle with an owner that had no warrants). When he parked he would leave the passenger window open and put the cover on. He would walk away. After a spell, he would come back and if it looked like no one was watching he would get under the cover and jump in through the open window. He said nobody ever lifted up the cover on him. If someone did see him disappear they might think he forgot something and was too lazy to take the cover off. If it was cold outside, nobody could see steamed up windows.

 

[sephiro499]

Are conversion vans insulated? If I buy one, should I strip it down and replace or add insulation?

 

[Almost There]

Are conversion vans insulated?  If I buy one, should I strip it down and replace or add insulation?

That will depend on the weather that you expect to encounter.

They're 'insulated' but not 4 weather insulation - IMO poorly insulated at that. The greatest heat loss will be from the windows anyways. Also the roof is particularly hard to insulate if you're planning on putting the original interior back in.

If you're not planning on putting the original interior ceiling and walls back in, you're better off buying either a cargo or passenger van that has no interior and doing it from scratch in the first place.

If you buy a 'conversion van', you're paying a premium for all that nice trim work and the extra captains seats, etc. etc. To turn around and remove a whole lot of it, IMO, it's a waste of your money.

 

[sephiro499]

That will depend on the weather that you expect to encounter.

They're 'insulated' but not 4 weather insulation - IMO poorly insulated at that. The greatest heat loss will be from the windows anyways. Also the roof is particularly hard to insulate if you're planning on putting the original interior back in.

If you're not planning on putting the original interior ceiling and walls back in, you're better off buying either a cargo or passenger van that has no interior and doing it from scratch in the first place.

If you buy a 'conversion van', you're paying a premium for all that nice trim work and the extra captains seats, etc. etc. To turn around and remove a whole lot of it, IMO, it's a waste of your money.

I had a feeling the insulation was 'just enough'.  The roadtrek look alluring but seeing as how I'll be suburban camping, there will be no place to fill water tanks and dump tanks.  Being out in the wilderness or away from civilization the roadtrek seems more useful.  A jerrycan with fresh water and grey water seems like a better idea for suburban environment and more versatile.  Plus I can install whatever insulation I want.

 

[Almost There]

I had a feeling the insulation was 'just enough'.  The roadtrek look alluring but seeing as how I'll be suburban camping, there will be no place to fill water tanks and dump tanks.  Being out in the wilderness or away from civilization the roadtrek seems more useful.  A jerrycan with fresh water and grey water seems like a better idea for suburban environment and more versatile.  Plus I can install whatever insulation I want.

And build the interior which ever way you want to.

I always find the Class B's like the Roadtrek to be lacking in good storage - they have lots of little nooks and crannies instead but try fitting more than a couple changes of clothes and a weekends worth of food in there and you're screwed. They basically try to stuff all the features of a 30' Class A into the body of a van. Yes, they get it all in there but at the sacrifice of good usable space.

I admit to being prejudiced but I've yet to find an interior layout that I like in them.

 

[Gary68]

Don't forget about your basic campervan,usually just have bed,cooking area and onboard propane some have toilet but no shower,much cheaper then class b

just the first one i saw

http://corvallis.craigslist.org/cto/5219845578.html

 

[B and C]

You are in a major metropolitan area and a college town at that.  I don't know what the school has to offer as far as meals, gym for showers or parking and what services you will avail yourself of.  Since you are going to school, you will probably be spending a lot of time on campus parked somewhere.  Could you just stay parked there?  After you are there for awhile, you will meet other students and some of them may be living in apartments or in the area with their parents.  Parking lot or Driveway camp maybe?  Could you park in their parking lot at night?  With windows tinted, full of exact fit reflectix and some curtains, you could have lights on inside and no one would be the wiser.  Daytime you could hang at a park or other public spot and study or.....  All you seem to need is  place to lay your head at night and store what you need to make it through the semesters.  How elaborate/comfortable you make your living accommodations is a matter of personal preference (and what you can get away with for a vehicle).  Cars are ubiquitous, they are everywhere as well as mini-van and SUV's.  If you look around you may even see the smaller RV's.  Smaller RV's will have to be winterized if below freezing for more than a night, but are VERY comfortable and can have a lot of storage depending on the model.  There are two of us in one

Bob gave the best advice, ask!

Brian

I was young once a long time ago. I have forgotten how to wing it 

 

[East Coast Paul]

Doing my homework for the west side of Balt. Co. and thinking the same thing.  What WILL blend in and where.

​

I'll be staying in a very busy suburban sprawl area, east side of balitmore county,MD.  I figured I'll just get lost in all of the cars.  I use to live in Perry Hall and there are literally a ton of 24hr grocery stores within just a few miles.  Once Johns Hopkins moved into that area it just exploded.  

No one who can help it lives in the City of Baltimore so they all commute and live in the county.  That is part of why there is so much through traffic in that area.

Next week I'll be back in that area for therapy and I might just 'hang out' until around 11pm and cruise my potential sleeping spots.

 

[sephiro499]

Doing my homework for the west side of Balt. Co. and thinking the same thing.  What WILL blend in and where.

​

Wow, nice to see someone else doing the same thing in my area!  Yeah.. right now I'm looking for a room to rent.  I want to do the van thing but my therapist and I are concerned about anxiety.  I have severe anxiety and I am concerned that living in a van may put me in permanent 'anxiety mode'.  Now that being said, if I can not find a room I can actually afford, I will live in a van. 

The real estate prices here are incredibly ridiculous.  People are renting out their living rooms for 475/month.  I do object to giving someone 5,000/year just to have a place to stay.  Rooms that are 7x12 are going for 400/month.  A van is just around the same size.  The trouble is that the only way to truly test my anxiety is to buy a van and live in it for some time.

It's like everything else in America.  Everything you need is in the areas that are unaffordable.  The other areas are just these 'outcast zones' where people don't get to participate in society.

The four season weather also complicated van living.  You've got to be prepared for freezing cold/snow and sweltering summers.  AC in a van is expensive and complicated; it can also compromise stealth.  You can't have anything with plumbing here because it will freeze during the winter.

I've thought about a mini van as well.  If you get somethign with stow and go seating you have a totally flat surface to work with.  Your stealth will greatly increase along with better mpg.

 

[accrete]

Best wishes on your adventure. Lots of decisions.

On "Anxiety"... I lived full time in a box van for about a year and a half. Luv'd the freedom it allowed. And I was in the San Francisco Bay Area. I parked in shopping mall parking lots at night. Mall-security knew I was in there, even stopped by for coffee and donuts on occasion. I did have a few tense moments but they passed without incident. You might look for ways to get time to fun city parks or similar during your non-school hours and enjoy the lifestyle. Maybe that will bring some peace into the equation. For myself, I went to a local cliff south of San Francisco to fly RC gliders and watch the sunsets many nights each month.

My wife and I will be retiring in a few short years and are currently planning our retirement Vome V2.0. More than likely the biggest stock cargo van we can find and do the build ourselves for the most part.

Thom