Confused about fuse panel wiring/info.

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MazdaGuy15 said:
18 gauge wire is way to small.  Do like sternwake said.   Open up the cover and wire 12 gauge  direct to the 12v power supply in the fridge.  And to your fuse block.     Either get another block to ground everything to or just return the one you have for one with a ground block in it.

I don't understand how 18 gauge is too small if that's the size of the wire of the supplied AC cord.   I also don't understand using a second fuse panel for grounding.  What is the problem with grounding the negative to a chassis ground?
 
As posted above, sometimes a chassis ground can fail. A separate ground wire for the negative provides a bit of confidence the beer will be cold when you need one. Not talking about a fuse panel for the negative, but just what is called a common bus bar. http://www.go2marine.com/product/20...-terminal-with-cover-100a-common-busbars.html
You should educate yourself about voltage drop along a DC circuit. There are many charts that help determine what AWG is needed for what distance and amp requirements. Here is one; http://www.genuinedealz.com/voltage-drop-calculator
 
The problem to be solved is to get power to the fridge at a high enough voltage so it doesn't shut itself off. If you use #16 wire instead of #18 wire there will be less voltage drop. If you put the fridge closer to the power source and have a shorter cable there will be less voltage drop. When your battery goes down to 12.1 volts and you have .5 volts drop then there is only 11.6 at the fridge. What is the limit on your fridge?

Connecting the negative wire to chassis ground is fine. You have to have a bolt and nut with lock washer and a spot of body/chassis that is well connected to house battery minus and shiny paint and dirt free. I use a conductive grease on the vehicle body, bolt threads, and ring terminals to retard oxidation. A nice copper bar with lots of threaded holes is likely prettier than my bolt with a bunch of ring terminals.

A quick search on the internet will show max current rating from 3 to 166 for #16 wire. For wire that doesn't have special temperature insulation a guide is what they do in houses. #12 wire gets a 20 amp breaker. #14 wire is good for 15 amps. #16 wire is good for 13 amps. However, in most homes a lamp with a 16 gauge wire plugs in to a circuit with a 20 amp breaker. When the lamp shorts the 16 gauge wire is adequate to trip the 20 amp breaker.

An "inline fuse" is not necessary if there is a fuse block with a fuse to protect the wire. If a wire is being attached to the battery there should be a fuse at the battery and it should be sized to protect the wire.
 
ginga said:
I don't understand how 18 gauge is too small if that's the size of the wire of the supplied AC cord.   I also don't understand using a second fuse panel for grounding.  What is the problem with grounding the negative to a chassis ground?

Look, watts = volts x amps.   So amps = watts / volts.   If you have a 100 watt light bulb, running on 120 volts ac, that's 100 / 120 = .833 amps.  on 12 volts dc, that's 100 / 12 = 8.33 amps.  In other words, 12 volts need 10 times the amps to equal the power that 120 volts provides.  So a 12 volt cord needs to bigger than a 120 volt cord to safely move the same amount of power.

In fact, the manual for the 50 qt. Arb says it draws 7.0 amps at 12 volts and 1.4 amps at 120 volts.

Vehicle manufacturer's use a chassis ground to save money, they only have to pay for half as much wire that way.  And it works fine when things are new.  As things age, corrosion occurs, spot welds between body parts break, and other things happen that can make a chassis ground flakey.  Perfectionists like Sternwake prefer wires for return on the "do it once, do it right" theory.
 
There are different ways to wire the frig:
-good (or adequate): use the AC cord that came with the frig and plug into the cigarette plug.
-better: cut off the male cigarette plug-in from the cord and either a) wire the cut end (via newly crimped on lug) into the fuse block or b) wire Anderson (or some other connector, though the SAE connectors don't seem to last) connectors to the cut end, with the corresponding other end wired into the fuse block.
-best: using thicker wire, hardwire directly from the 12v power supply in the frig to the fuse block (or battery. If battery, add a fuse to the + wire).

Correct?

OP-I actually have similar questions. Thank you for asking. I'm leaning towards the "better" option (this sounds like what Almost There did. Beth-How far away from the male plug in end did you cut? I'm guessing you didn't fuse it if you wired it into the fuse box?)
 
So here is a quick diagram I made of what my fuse panel wiring would look like.

I understand I am not wiring the fridge directly to the battery which isn't the best, however the two terminals (which are fused by this https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Sys...389793&sr=1-5&keywords=blue+sea+fuse+terminal ) are wired to my inverter and then to the fuse panel itself.

What I've drawn out shows the the 12v DC wire from the ARB fridge cut then split and connected and fused to the fuse panel. The wire is long enough to not need any connectors for extension. In fact I could cut it a little shorter than the tip if I wanted to.
 
TooManyDogs said:
There are different ways to wire the frig:
-good (or adequate): use the AC cord that came with the frig and plug into the cigarette plug.
-better: cut off the male cigarette plug-in from the cord and either a) wire the cut end (via newly crimped on lug) into the fuse block or b) wire Anderson (or some other connector, though the SAE connectors don't seem to last) connectors to the cut end, with the corresponding other end wired into the fuse block.
-best: using thicker wire, hardwire directly from the 12v power supply in the frig to the fuse block (or battery. If battery, add a fuse to the + wire).

Correct?

OP-I actually have similar questions. Thank you for asking. I'm leaning towards the "better" option (this sounds like what Almost There did. Beth-How far away from the male plug in end did you cut? I'm guessing you didn't fuse it if you wired it into the fuse box?)
 AH thank you.  Anderson connectors!  I knew someone had mentioned those but I couldn't for the life of me remember or find the post.  

if splitting the 2x16awg 12v DC wire wouldn't work or is unwise I would look to incorporating an anderson connector to link the fridge up to the battery and supply it a fuse.
 
Your diagram shows 19 amp fuses.  20 amp fuses exist and would be ok.  With your diagram the fridge wire is partly #4 and partly #16.  If the #16 part is short and the #4 part is long it is fine.

Anderson connectors are great.  Generally good stuff costs more and performs better.  I use cheap crimp terminals like these:
https://www.amazon.com/AIRNIX-Insulated-Terminals-Disconnects-Connectors/dp/B0139H6B44
The left two of each row are called quick disconnect or quarter inch spade connectors.  The crimp tool is cheap too.  I use the conductive silicone grease on the wire before crimping to retard oxidation.  These are the same size as the automotive fuses.  They are sufficient to handle low current applications.  If they get plugged in and unplugged often they tend to not be as tight as when they were new.  A gentle squeeze with pliers helps that.  Since they are cheap I don't hesitate to cut them off and crimp on new ones.  I use the female connectors with heat shrink for a sources and male connectors for loads.  I mark one with red marker and the other with black marker for plus and minus to avoid confusion and mistakes later.

I have several 12 volt appliances.  I have a 180 watt heater and a tiny oven.  Both have their original cigarette lighter plug cut off and replaced with spade connectors.  If I want I can put female spade connectors on the cut off cigarette lighter plug and then plug it in to an unreliable cigarette lighter socket.
 
12 gauge or 14 gauge would be better than 16 gauge for less voltage drop.  A 15 amp fuse would be better with 16 gauge wire.
 
TooManyDogs said:
OP-I actually have similar questions. Thank you for asking. I'm leaning towards the "better" option (this sounds like what Almost There did. Beth-How far away from the male plug in end did you cut? I'm guessing you didn't fuse it if you wired it into the fuse box?)

The Whynter units came with much better wiring apparently. than the OP's unit. I'd guestimate that they used 10 gauge wires since the wire was a good match for the 10 gauge I used to wire the van.

I cut the freezer cord quite close to the male plug since I needed more slack for pulling it out on it's rolling tray. The fridge unit doesn't slide out so I just cut the cord so I had some slack in the line. I used butt connectors to attach both to the existing wires I had run last year for the Marinco outlets. All the wiring I did was firmly nailed down to the various cabinets in the van and it all runs back to the 12V Blue Sea fuse panel.

Had the wiring from Whynter been smaller gauge, I'd have cut the cords as close to the fridge as possible or figured out how to actually re-wire the proprietary plug - I detest the use of undersized wires. Technically they're not 'hard-wired' since I can still unplug at the fridge/freezer unit itself but it's as close to hardwired as you're going to get.

Word of warning, if you're going to use Anderson Pole Connectors, use the 45 amp rated ones - they're the only ones big enough to take 10/12 gauge wires. 30 amp will only take up to 16 gauge. Also the mounting thingies that we ordered to mount the Andersons on the wood wall beside the units were the chintziest pieces of lightweight aluminum that I have ever seen in my life. IIWM, I'd skip them entirely and figure out a better way to secure the wiring.
 
ginga said:
Seems like it might be simpler for me to use the 18awg AC cord the fridge came with.  Would it not be wise to wire that AC cord to the fuse panel with a 15amp fuse?  Or is it absolutely best to hardwire the fridge to the battery, because I'm not finding anything to wire up a 15amp fuse inline for 18awg wire.

Are you confused about the difference between AC and DC?

The AC cord is to plug into a regular 115vAC household outlet.  There is no cutting it to hook it to 12vDC.

18 awg is more than adequate to power the fridge at 115 volts, but overwhelmingly inadequate at 11.5v DC.

The Lower the gauge number, the thicker the wire is.  12AWG is much thicker than 18AWG.

The 16awg DC cord is much thinner than Danfoss/Secop lists as acceptable.  But in order to sell it as a portable 12v fridge, it HAS to come with a ciggy plug, and it is very difficult to hook 12 or 10AWg wire into a ciggy plug, and it is kind of pointless as the contacts in a ciggy plug and receptacle cannot handle the current that 10 or 12AWG wire can.
   The 16 AWG and ciggy plug will work OK, while the battery is still fully charged, or when alternator is holding battery at charging voltages. But When battery is 50% depleted the voltage drop on the 16AWG abnd ciggy plug and receptacle could  cause the compressor not to turn on. However the Fan will still turn on, make noise, and make the human listener think the fridge is still working properly, when it is not, due to the limited voltage because of the too thin copper and the resistance of the ciggy plug recpetacle and all the other connectors inline.

The whole Idea of cutting off the ciggy plug is to eliminate this inevitably troublesome connector, as they do wear out in time, and they do cause voltage drop, and they do wiggle their way loose.  When loose and making marginal contact it is very hard on the compressor controller electronics as it is like flicking a lightswitch on and off a thousand times a second.

The 16 AWG directly to the Fuse block, and ground buss is Much much better, but 16 AWG is still dropping some voltage.  It is less than Ideal.  It will work though and will be many times more reliable than the ciggy plug/receptacle.

Now, the perfectionist might say screw the 16awg AND the ciggy plug.  They might figure out which Pin on the 12v receptacle on fridge body is + and which is - and find a way to securely and safely connect 12awg wire right to these pins, then wire it right to fuse block and negative buss.

However, this might not be so easy to find the right socket to securely slide over the pins, and it could be knocked loose.  One might realize this is yet another connector in the circuit, and each connector adds some resistance to the circuit.  One might then decide why not just run power to the compressor controller itself.

Here is what my DC only compressor controller looks like on my upright frontloading compressor fridge:
DanfossController_zps6c9fb06b.jpg


See the two thicker red and black wires? These are the 10 AWG power feeds.  Your AC/DC controller will have another connector on top for the 115VAC plug in.

In the pic above you can see that there is a small blue wire and a small brown wire going to the same terminal on the controller as the thick red and black wires.  These are for the internal LED light.  The 10AWG is crimped with a terminal like this:

71iLJgeo3JL._SL1500_.jpg


and the smaller LED light wires are attached to the piggy back portion.

The true anally retentive perfectionist could wire 12 AWG or thicker right to the compresor controller itself so the fridge always gets maximum voltage and will keep running as long as possible as the battery gets overdepleted.

How far you want to take it is up to you.  You will likely be fine just cutting the 16AWG cord and hooking it to the Fuseblock and ground buss.  Do make sure you know which is + and which is -.  Reversing the polarity might be fatal for the compressor controller at worst or require rewiring at best.

The spring loaded center pin on a ciggy plug is the (+).  Using a digital multimeter set to ohms, place one probe on the spring loaded tip, and probe the two wires and see which one is the +.  One wire will usually be smooth and the other has ridges on it.  Usually, the ridged wire is +, but not always, so one HAS to test to make sure.  Some red electrical tape on that wire or some red heatshrink prevents mistakes.  Assume nothing.

Also a small nitpicking point, is that Ideally, the fridge would be wired directly to the battery, fused at the battery(+), rather than sharing the Fuseblock with other devices.  The reason for this is not only for voltage drop, but that other devices hooked to fuse block or ground buss can send surges/voltage spikes through shared wiring, and the battery itself is kind of an electrical surge filter. The surges spikes can be cumulatively damaging to electronics inside the controller.

 It is also best to twist the power leads between battery and the fridge to negate RFI entering and exiting the wiring.  This wire twisting trick is also beneficial on circuits powering LED lights.  RFI can knock out TV stations, and regulated LEDS are known sources of RFI.  I had one LED bulb which would knock out a very strong TV station.

Keep in mind almost no Installs adhere to this small nitpicking point and still work properly for X amount of time.

Those of us with battery monitors might be able to wire and fuse the fridge right to battery (+), but the (-) has to go through the shunt for the shunt/monitor to be able to read the current for the fridge, and the shunt is a shared Buss that the directions say to avoid.

ANy wire connector adds resistance, and every crimp connector also introduces a possible failure point too.  Newbs can easily screw up crimping, so be sure to pull on any crimped connectors with a good amount of force to insure that it is at least mechanically sound.

Anderson powerpoles come in 15, 30 and 45 amp sizes.  but this only applys to the internal contacts and the wire sizes they are intended to be used with  15 and 30 amp powerpoles are easy to crimp and assemble, the 30 amp can just barely accept 12awg wire, but not 10AWG.  10AWG wire requires the 45 amp powerpoles and these are much harder to crimp properly without their special crimper.  I'd say to focus on the 30 amp versions unless one buys the special crimper or is good with a crimper and what is required, then the 45s are preferable.

Once assembled, Anderson powerpoles in the 15/30 and 45 amp will All mate with each other.

They are a very reliable connector, but they have no fuse.  If a 10 AWG 45 amp powerpole used as a DC output is fused at 30 amps, and one plugs a 15 amp powerpole into it with 18awg, well the 18 AWG would not be protected by the 30 amp fuse.  One would need to reduce the fuse size for the thinnest wire on the circuit.

If using 10 or 12AWG wire, these Yellow Flag terminals can be installed inline on + power wire, and an ATC/ATO fuse inserted cleanly inline.   Blue and red can be used inline on thinner wiring.

https://www.amazon.com/Nylon-Insula...rd_wg=5vGj0&psc=1&refRID=6KG9RVHNW57GQQ2K19R6

One could also just add a  premade inline fuse to the powerpole connector and use a butt connector.
https://www.amazon.com/Quality-Spla...TF8&qid=1488406590&sr=1-8&keywords=12AWG+fuse

The fuse holder linked just above has two of the flag terminals inside the molded plastic which the fuse inserts into.  I have found that they can be very poorly crimped and the fuse holder itself melts, which is why I posted the flag terminals themselves, as one who is good at crimping, can easily install their own fuse into wire with minimal extra connections required and minimal added bulk.
 
Almost There said:
Word of warning, if you're going to use Anderson Pole Connectors, use the 45 amp rated ones - they're the only ones big enough to take 10/12 gauge wires. 30 amp will only take up to 16 gauge.

https://powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpole-connectors-30amp-unassembled

This link above claims that 30 amp powerpole contacts can accept 12 or 14 gauge wiring.

The wire's insulation might be thicker, which might make it difficult to seat the crimped connectors within the plastic housings without reducing the diameter of the insulation with a razor blade.

The 45 amp powerpoles contacts, instead of a simple round socket one can dimple crimp, have arms which must be folded over the wire, making it much more difficult to use a regular dimple crimper upon and achieve a good mechanical and electrical bond.  

Despite a lot of experience crimping, I have had some 45's wire pull from the contact.  Their special crimping tool is much recommended for 45 amp on 10 - 12 AWG wire, and likely yields a better connection on 30 and 15 amp contacts, and requires much less time if one is doing many of them.  

I have successfully attached 8awg to 45 amp powerpoles, but it requires destranding the wire  to 10AWG thickness right at the connector.  I have also taken to soldering over my crimp for the overkill factor, but this can be a lesson in time consuming frustration, as inserting the crimped and soldered connector into the plastic housing until it 'clicks', is quite difficult, and with 8awg requires thinning out the wire's insulation.
 
SternWake I can't thank you enough for the time and effort you put into your posts and the advice you give in them. And the patience you all have with me as well! :p

I thoroughly enjoy you laying out the details of the more precise methods of wiring this all up. I think for the time being and since I'm still inexperienced and learning all of this I'll go with the good enough option of cutting the cig plug off and using the two wires from my 16awg cord to go to the fuse block. I'll refine my wiring and knowledge as I move forward with myself, and I'll certainly be bookmarking the threads I have made here to keep track of all of the great info given to me.
 
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