Concealed Carry Options

[LeeRevell]

Boys, boys!  Let's settle down and get back on track.  This should not be a battle of wills but an exchange of ideas and information.  It's an important topic so let's not lose sight of it.

Not a problem.  The issue is resolved and closed.  Back to some well-considered discussion. 
I would suggest visiting the various gunshops around your location, and handle every make and model of small revolver you can find.  Find what "Speaks to you" and feels right.  Then see if you can test shoot it.  Get what YOU need and can use.  All else is personal opinion and worth what you pay for it.

 

[minimotos95]

The next firearm I buy for carry will be one of the following;
Seecamp 380, a 380 that's actually small and made of stainless steel rather than zytel and/or zinc
HK P2000sk 357 sig, a little bigger than the Glock but a lot nicer
Gen 2.5 or 3 Glock 33 357 sig,  what I will most likely buy because of the value and accessories are everywhere for 9/40/357 Glocks.
The Sig p224 looks nice but I haven't been able to lay my hands on one
Kel-Tec made a p40 and p357 many years ago and I would love to find one
The Detonics combat master and the Para P6 45(I think that's the right name?)  are smaller than officer's sized 1911s, good for me as I have long skinny fingers so I can't use all of the grip length on an officer's frame.
The 10mm compact witness has been catching my eye too along with the Glock 29 and 30

As you can see all autoloaders, this is because I don't trust myself not to push my hand loads too far in a revolver. And having no formal gunsmith education I can rebuild a pistol with ease, even going as far as turning a firing pin from stock but I am dumbfounded when I see a revolver with the side cover off.
Just throwing out there what I would spend my money on to give ideas to others.

 

[LeeRevell]

The next firearm I buy for carry will be one of the following;
Seecamp 380, a 380 that's actually small and made of stainless steel rather than zytel and/or zinc
HK P2000sk 357 sig, a little bigger than the Glock but a lot nicer
Gen 2.5 or 3 Glock 33 357 sig,  what I will most likely buy because of the value and accessories are everywhere for 9/40/357 Glocks.
The Sig p224 looks nice but I haven't been able to lay my hands on one
Kel-Tec made a p40 and p357 many years ago and I would love to find one
The Detonics combat master and the Para P6 45(I think that's the right name?)  are smaller than officer's sized 1911s, good for me as I have long skinny fingers so I can't use all of the grip length on an officer's frame.
The 10mm compact witness has been catching my eye too along with the Glock 29 and 30

As you can see all autoloaders, this is because I don't trust myself not to push my hand loads too far in a revolver. And having no formal gunsmith education I can rebuild a pistol with ease, even going as far as turning a firing pin from stock but I am dumbfounded when I see a revolver with the side cover off.
Just throwing out there what I would spend my money on to give ideas to others.

A nice selection of autoloaders.  A couple may be discontinued/out of production?  But anything is available somewhere, for the right price.
Don't be afraid of revolvers.  In general they are simpler than most autos.  Reliability depends on make and model, for each type.  Neither type is inherently 'better' than the other.  I own several of both.  I do my own minor 'smithery, but if it's something serious I take it to a good gunsmith.
I myself prefer the old school "Steel & Wood" guns.  Just never warmed up to the synthetics, and while I don't like Glocks, I will admit I have yet to find one that doesn't shoot very well!

 

[DannyB1954]

 
    Siiiiighhhh , lots of misinformation cropping up in this thread.  You should be aware that you can now buy *over the counter* specific loadings oriented specifically for snub guns. In addition of you handload ( yes I do) you can tailor your loads to the specifc sidearm in question , and that's from both the standpoint of the specific propellant utilised AND the selection of the proper slug for the specific purpose.
 
   Criminy , the next thing that will crop up will be the old .45 acp " they all fall to hardball" myth.....

You are talking exceptions to the rule here. Most people do not reload.
Most people do not special order their ammo through the mail. You can get any kind of ammo you wish If you look hard enough online. Most people get their stuff at the local sporting goods store, or Walmart.

Using the ammo listed at Ballistics by the inch, (which are considered top notch rounds), the 40 S&W has more power than the .357 Magnum in barrel lengths less than 4". You can infer that I am giving out misinformation, but I have basis for my information. The same .357 bullet in a 2" barrel; will give you up to 50% more velocity in a 4" barrel. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html, so tell me what is happening to the gun powder after the bullet leaves a 2" barrel?

If you have a web site with scientific data that says differently, please do share the link.

 

[Canine]

Have at it,boys.I'm going for popcorn.

 

[DannyB1954]

Have at it,boys.I'm going for popcorn.

I guess it just annoys me when someone has a condescending attitude. You can have a discussion of the facts without trying to insult the person you have a differing opinion with.

Popcorn does sound good.

 

[minimotos95]

You are talking exceptions to the rule here. Most people do not reload.
Most people do not special order their ammo through the mail. You can get any kind of ammo you wish If you look hard enough online. Most people get their stuff at the local sporting goods store, or Walmart.

Using the ammo listed at Ballistics by the inch, (which are considered top notch rounds), the 40 S&W has more power than the .357 Magnum in barrel lengths less than 4". You can infer that I am giving out misinformation, but I have basis for my information. The same .357 bullet in a 2" barrel; will give you up to 50% more velocity in a 4" barrel. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html, so tell me what is happening to the gun powder after the bullet leaves a 2" barrel?

If you have a web site with scientific data that says differently, please do share the link.

I drove an hour to buy my last box of carry ammo(230gr PDX1). But yes an amazing amount of people carry whatever their local Walmart sells even WWB or tulammo steel case FMJ. 
Everytime I've been to cabela's they have had more short barrel 357 ammo on the shelf then loads would consider acceptable for wilderness carry, it's not hard to find the short barrel 357, 38 or even 22wmr ammo
A full power 357 will never be able to burn all of it's powder in a 2" barrel, it's because of the case capacity, there's tricks to reduce the case capacity with fillers but I don't see any commercial manufacturer doing so. Even the tiny 25acp can't burn the fastest powder available in that short of a barrel, there's no arguing that a 2" barrel is less than ideal in terms of external ballistics but to negate the difference in a 2" barrel, short barrel specific loads offer better velocities and less flash than a typical self defense/law enforcement load designed for a duty sized weapon. 
Also bear in mind when comparing pistol barrel length = barrel with camber while revolver barrel length = barrel forward of the cylinder gap.

Yes revolvers are simpler to use than autos but a much more complex mechanism to repair or modify requiring a a wealth of knowledge and more importantly patience.

 

[Seraphim]

Looks like I missed all the fun.

A lot of police departments offer concealed carry classes, and will provide a weapon for you to shoot with. PDs have a large selection, usually, to choose from, and the range instructors generally know their stuff. A good opportunity to try several firearms in front of a knowledgeable instructor. Choose a larger department.

A lot of good advice here about choosing something that fits your hand, is comfortable to shoot, and comfortable to carry, then get proficient with it. I mostly carried full sized handguns off duty for almost three decades, because if I got into a situation I may have been obligated/requested to assist with, I wanted the advantages of a full sized firearm. Now that I'm retired, I prefer something smaller because it it's more comfortable and less restrictive in the long run. I have a S&W 460V I can carry concealed in areas where there's a good possibility of bear encounters. It's not something I want to do on a daily basis lol, but I have a light loose vest, which has, among others, the advantage of great concealment. If if I twist funny, it could be anything - a cell phone, a fanny pack... And if someone guesses, it's still a concealed weapon. Never had any difficulty. Current daily carry piece is a compact 1911 chambered for .45 acp. I will also agree with the comment that quality is important. Inexpensive is inexpensive for a reason. I prefer a firearm which has had a lot of effort put into to. I also don't buy used. I never know who may have screwed with a firearm, and done something which doesn't show up for a thousand rounds later. Or something may be functional, but worn, and give up the ghost when needed.

Just my opinions.

 

[Seraphim]

A nice selection of autoloaders.  A couple may be discontinued/out of production?  But anything is available somewhere, for the right price.
Don't be afraid of revolvers.  In general they are simpler than most autos.  Reliability depends on make and model, for each type.  Neither type is inherently 'better' than the other.  I own several of both.  I do my own minor 'smithery, but if it's something serious I take it to a good gunsmith.
I myself prefer the old school "Steel & Wood" guns.  Just never warmed up to the synthetics, and while I don't like Glocks, I will admit I have yet to find one that doesn't shoot very well!

What Lee said about revolvers. They're fine; less complicated, don't need disassembly for cleaning, easy to tell if it's loaded ( you can see the brass in the cylinder), don't have to worry about safety being engaged or if mag is fully seated. Just point and pull the trigger. Don't get in the habit of cocking it before firing, especially if you have to decock it in an occupied space. Decocking a loaded revolver. Isn't difficult, but requires care, and makes the possibility of an accidental discharge easier. It's a technique to practice on the range, but. Not something you really want to do around people, if you can avoid it.

 

[DannyB1954]

I drove an hour to buy my last box of carry ammo(230gr PDX1). But yes an amazing amount of people carry whatever their local Walmart sells even WWB or tulammo steel case FMJ. 
Everytime I've been to cabela's they have had more short barrel 357 ammo on the shelf then loads would consider acceptable for wilderness carry, it's not hard to find the short barrel 357, 38 or even 22wmr ammo
A full power 357 will never be able to burn all of it's powder in a 2" barrel, it's because of the case capacity, there's tricks to reduce the case capacity with fillers but I don't see any commercial manufacturer doing so. Even the tiny 25acp can't burn the fastest powder available in that short of a barrel, there's no arguing that a 2" barrel is less than ideal in terms of external ballistics but to negate the difference in a 2" barrel, short barrel specific loads offer better velocities and less flash than a typical self defense/law enforcement load designed for a duty sized weapon. 
Also bear in mind when comparing pistol barrel length = barrel with camber while revolver barrel length = barrel forward of the cylinder gap.

Yes revolvers are simpler to use than autos but a much more complex mechanism to repair or modify requiring a a wealth of knowledge and more importantly patience.

My opinion remains that in a 2" ccw weapon, about the only thing you will gain over a 38 +P with a 357 is noise and trouble.
That is my opinion. Do as you please. I would never recommend .357 magnum as a self defense round, even in a long barrel gun. What you gain is far less than what you loose.  You are responsible for whatever the bullet does after it goes through the bad guy. Since most people are made of soft tissue, chances are it will. Even if it only hits the bad guy, explain to a jury why you were using super duper high powered ammo. The relatives of the bad guy probably have the same moral standards as their dead relative, and will most likely sue you. They will say you were just itching for a chance to kill someone, and the ammo you chose to use proves that.

 

[Seraphim]

You are talking exceptions to the rule here. Most people do not reload.
Most people do not special order their ammo through the mail. You can get any kind of ammo you wish If you look hard enough online. Most people get their stuff at the local sporting goods store, or Walmart.

Using the ammo listed at Ballistics by the inch, (which are considered top notch rounds), the 40 S&W has more power than the .357 Magnum in barrel lengths less than 4". You can infer that I am giving out misinformation, but I have basis for my information. The same .357 bullet in a 2" barrel; will give you up to 50% more velocity in a 4" barrel. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html, so tell me what is happening to the gun powder after the bullet leaves a 2" barrel?

If you have a web site with scientific data that says differently, please do share the link.

The excess gunpowder burns in the air and makes a real neat fireball. *grin*

Nothing wrong with hardball ammunition, and most factory ammunition has sufficient velocity to get the job done, although heavier clothing in wintertime is a possible obstacle to be considered. Ball ammunition might be preferable then. A lot of people spend a lot of time over thinking and over analyzing. I used to be one of them lol.

 

[Seraphim]

Practice and become accurate...

 

[minimotos95]

My opinion remains that in a 2" ccw weapon, about the only thing you will gain over a 38 +P with a 357 is noise and trouble.
That is my opinion. Do as you please. I would never recommend .357 magnum as a self defense round, even in a long barrel gun. What you gain is far less than what you loose.  You are responsible for whatever the bullet does after it goes through the bad guy. Since most people are made of soft tissue, chances are it will. Even if it only hits the bad guy, explain to a jury why you were using super duper high powered ammo. The relatives of the bad guy probably have the same moral standards as their dead relative, and will most likely sue you. They will say you were just itching for a chance to kill someone, and the ammo you chose to use proves that.

While many seem to think more velocity = goes deeper, in the real world with modern JHPs it's not the case only non expanding bullets. Fire a 125gr gold dot at 1100fps(38/9mm) and fire the same one at 1600 fps(357m/9x25) the one fired at 1600fps will stop shorter but with a bigger wound cavity while the one fired slower will not have expanded as much and went deeper. 
In this day nobody should still be carrying FMJ in a cartridge bigger than 380acp unless they are carrying for bear in which case they should have hardcast loaded up if avaliable. Ammunition is the cheapest part of carry, your life has to be worth an extra 75c a round for premium ammo otherwise you wouldn't spend $300-3000 on a handgun to protect it. 
As for getting sued by the family that's what nearly every castle doctrine, stand your ground or make my day law covers, to protect you from civil charges after lawfully defending your life. 

One more thing, because the 357 case has a higher capacity a light or "low recoil" 357 load can run at lower pressure than a 38+p meaning less recoil and muzzle blast while still producing the same muzzle energy as a 38+p

 

[Canine]

I don't like to use reloads for self defense. One more thing to defend against should I end up shooting someone. Practicing with reloads is great, though. I always use factory ammo when carrying to create another layer of safety from the justice system.

 

[DannyB1954]

While many seem to think more velocity = goes deeper, in the real world with modern JHPs it's not the case only non expanding bullets. Fire a 125gr gold dot at 1100fps(38/9mm) and fire the same one at 1600 fps(357m/9x25) the one fired at 1600fps will stop shorter but with a bigger wound cavity while the one fired slower will not have expanded as much and went deeper. 
In this day nobody should still be carrying FMJ in a cartridge bigger than 380acp unless they are carrying for bear in which case they should have hardcast loaded up if avaliable. Ammunition is the cheapest part of carry, your life has to be worth an extra 75c a round for premium ammo otherwise you wouldn't spend $300-3000 on a handgun to protect it. 
As for getting sued by the family that's what nearly every castle doctrine, stand your ground or make my day law covers, to protect you from civil charges after lawfully defending your life. 

One more thing, because the 357 case has a higher capacity a light or "low recoil" 357 load can run at lower pressure than a 38+p meaning less recoil and muzzle blast while still producing the same muzzle energy as a 38+p

The people who are competent with the .357 magnum, are not the ones asking a forum what caliber should I buy. There are so many variables that yes you can buy 10mm rounds that are less powerful than the 40S&W. You can buy .357 Mag rounds that are weaker than 38+p. The average Joe asking advice on a forum isn't going to know enough to keep themselves out of harms way.
If someone said they want to get into hunting rabbits, I would not say that the 300 Wheatherby magnum is a fine gun.

I guess my point is bigger is not always better. What you shoot better is better.