City Vandwelling Guide Needed

[One Awesome Inch]

Anyway, back on the subject of City Vandwelling, the one issue that I do have about it is that It's not as cost effective as Bob puts it out to be.

1. It's pretty much impossible IMO to not have a storage as there are certain sensitive things that should not be left in a van, as well as other stuff that you just can't throw away (including records, heirlooms, memorabilia.) Cost: $25 in an interior city, about $50+ in a more expensive city for a 5x5.

2. You need a mailbox and a physical address, that's $15 to $20 a month for a mailbox at the UPS Store.

3. You need to take showers, Gym Membership (around $40)

4. It's not the best environment to store food and cook (and you can't cook outside in the city), thus having to eat out more hikes the cost of food. You can either have a refrigerator (a good dc refrigerator costs around $600) or pay for ice (which is as low as $1 in 99 cents only stores) which is $30 a month.

5. You need to pay for repairs, thats highly dependent on your vehicle. While it may be as low as $50 a month to save for repairs, it could be $150 or more. Compare this to living in a room and using a bike or paying for buses which you can avoid this cost.

6. You need to pay for gasoline, vs living in a room and using a bike and paying for buses, which costs actually less. The added lower mpg of a van vs a car makes trips to cost as much as 2X or more.


In a smaller big city like Columbus, Ohio, a room costs around $400 a month, and thus the combined savings on gasoline and food and car repairs and storage along with the increased comfort is enough to make it a no go. In a city like L.A. it may or may not be a significant savings.

However, I never liked renting rooms. It's nice to have your own place and it costs at least $900 a month in L.A. to have your own 1 bedroom apartment plus $100-$150 for utilities (and more likely than not you have to have a one year lease.)

As a person who would be city/urban stealth dwelling pretty much 100% of the time (due to family and work) these are interesting points I'd like to go over. Naturally, everyone is entitled to their own point of view, but some of these dont jive with my thinking... but again I could be wrong. Just speculating "outloud" so I can bounce my notions off you guys and learn about other perspectives.

1. It's pretty much impossible IMO to not have a storage space.
I'm a minimalist at heart, though I still have lots more stuff to get rid of as time allows, so this is easier for me. All I need is the necessities aside from my music gear which will certainly be a challenge to store (I plan to use the spot under the bed). Records, memorabilia etc can be taken care of by storing it digitally online. That wooden bowl I made in Grade 9 woodshop and have kept? Take a picture of it and move it out. One thing I would explore is renting a safety deposit box at a bank and storing cash there. I can stick any records I really need there, if need be.

Ultimately the van life does not suit a pack-rat personality and one will likely have to make some hard choices about stuff they will have to part with... but part with it you must.

2. You need a mailbox and a physical address.
This is a tough one, but if you have a good friend or family member perhaps they can let you use theirs? I get little mail now but vandwelling I would surely get none that I *need*.

3. You need to take showers.
This comes down to personal hygiene preferences. For me, I could get by with once a week showers. In the van I would wash my hair in the sink daily (boil hot water first) and sponge if necessary.

4. It's not the best environment to store food and cook.
As a vegan I dont eat meat or eggs so this is a bit easier for me. A small cooler with some icepaks I could keep in the fridge at work during the day, would probably be fine for me. There is such a large variety of food to eat that I think with a little effort one could learn of new foods/recipes that would be easier to eat/prepare living in the van.

5. You need to pay for repairs.
True, but living in an apt and assuming you'd have some sort of vehicle you'd still have car repairs. Of course, living in the van its much more important to get them taken care of immediately so yes saving for such repairs is a necessity.

6. You need to pay for gasoline.
Yup. I'd double my gas budget vs my car. Ideally you could park within walking distance to your work and drive less. However, you'd still need to move the van to maintain stealth, but looking around where I live I have seen many, many places to park within a 45 min walk to work. Still a bit dubious though I suppose.

Anyway, just my thoughts on those. Not saying what works for me would work for everyone. Just food for thought.

 

[Lifemagician]

By far the hardest thing is to get rid of stuff..... heirlooms, memorabilia!

Having for many years struggled with this, having watched 'hoarding' shows on TV, having spoken with friends and professionals... here is what I am doing.

Everyone in the family has been asked what they want. It breaks my heart that some of the things I valued so much, they do not want. So now I am looking at all of them with a dollar sign in each eye.

As mentioned above, take pictures of it, and rid yourself of the burden. Chances are when you're gone, they will be left out for others to collect, or worse, put into landfill.

Lifey

 

[indigo]

Yes there is a guide needed! I've been lurking for a bit now and I have yet to see anyone really survive long term in NYC, but I'm sure there's a way. I know of those who have done it in Queens and Brooklyn but not Manhattan island.
I recently spoke to my old man about van dwelling and he said it's really an old idea and it's been done long before I was even born. He also mentioned that many laws were put in place in NYC because it was also "getting out of hand". I wouldn't know.
I think ppl need to understand that a huge part of the appeal is the freedom to have access to the museums and other cultural institutions you would never get in a rural setting. NYC is just an amazing place and I've been all over. In looking at it very cold and logically it seems that after everything is said and done it would be less of a headache to simply rent a cheap room somewhere, but as you know "cheap rooms" and "NYC" do not go together. I won't get into the politics of it too deeply, but real estate speculation and ppl willing to rent closets for $600 a month is a huge part of the problem.
Right now the most affordable rooms to rent are in the crime ridden neighborhood of Washington Heights for around $600. No, it's not as bad as it was in the 80's - 90's but it's still not safe.
Even Inwood has been completely priced out (translation "gentrified") by out of towners and college students desperate to live in NYC. Many of those rooms for rent are with families that have been grandfathered in at $700 a month and they are charging others more than half the rent and many tenants won't even let you cook if you rent a room. Yes! You heard me... they won't let you use their kitchen.
Additionally, train rides from that part of town to mid town or down town or where anything significant is happening can be a hassle. When I lived at the very tippidy top of Manhattan and took the train to work in Chelsea I often thought to myself, "if I were in NJ I would actually be closer"... I think the choice of living in a van is about lifestyle but I'm not sure how much money it would actually save.

 

[TheModernHobo]

I am in New York City, 60 yrs old couple. Wife studied to become a nurse but now that she got her license, no one wants to hire her which I suspect due to age discrimination. Well we can no longer pay our $900 a month rent n in$200 a month electric bill. We are thinking about vandwelling. There r many streets in the outer boroughs which police ever bothered.in fact I saw hugh RVs frequent a few spots all the time. From what I read, theres no law against parking your rv on the street but you must move it once every 24 or 48 hrs. Rest assure I will write in my experiences when I do it.

 

[GotSmart]

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/parking-regulations.shtml

Here are the parking laws. Since I have not been within 2,00 miles of NYC, I have no clue what to make of them.

Good luck!

 

[offroad]

ModernH - warned my daughter to stick with her LPN license so she will have a job. The RN market is full of competition from those nurses wanting to make $80k a year but in reality have no competitive specializations. RN will not got you a job. You need other tech skills.

 

[caseyc]

Yes, it is possible to van dwell in a large city. It's harder versus staying in the boonies, for sure, but it's possible. It also takes more discipline, in my opinion.

Relatively speaking, it's easier to van dwell in...well, a van...versus say a Class A or B RV rig. Size does make a difference! The smaller, the better...at least for urban van dwelling.

The number one important thing to do for successful urban van dwelling is to move your vehicle every day. Don't stay in the same spot for more than 1 day. Maybe 2 days at the most. Don't stay in the same spot long enough for neighbors to notice you and have reason to complain.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen a bright yellow DMV violation notice plastered on an RV windshield due to a neighbor complaint for any number of reasons. Usually the reason is for staying in the same spot for too long. If you ignore the violation notice too many times, or for too long, your vehicle will get towed away.

 

[Reducto]

I'm always amused by these threads because I did the opposite of what people keep saying is super important and I was fine in San Francisco for 6 months. It may be different because I was in a minivan, but I had a (frequently used) roof vent and solar panel on top so I was not exactly stealthy.

I would stay in the same spot for 2-3 days at a time, didn't keep my van terribly clean, exited/entered through the side door, and parked mostly on the street in residential areas. The key, I found, was to constantly hunt for the perfect spot. I would pick somewhere it was normal for a vehicle to stay for several days, somewhere I was not perceived as a thread (playgrounds or schools) and a neighborhood that was not too bad or too nice. I kept the area around the van free of garbage even if it wasn't mine, didn't dump any liquids, and didn't get in or out of the van too often.

I did get one DMV sticker but it was after only a couple of hours and I simply moved the next day. I knew that was a bad spot but I was having engine troubles and just needed to crash for the night so I could deal with it in the morning. The couple of times I got knocks on the window it happened very soon after parking - never after being in a spot for an extended period. If I had stayed for longer than legally allowed for normal parking that might be different, but I always made sure to obey those laws.

I'm just saying there are many ways to do this, and the best methods vary by the type of vehicle and the city. Find what works for you.

 

[Starlight]

Hi all -
I have enjoyed this discussion about urban dwelling.
Taking a perspective on this... living in a van in a city is a viable option to the real estate shark scenerio that will demand the highest rent possible. What a scheme it all really is. Even mobile home parks can play the game. Seems to me there should be many many many "temporary parks" where utilities come with the parking fees... at a reasonable rate. Dry camping... even cheaper.

These parks can be designed to accommodate camp-style living. There could be a central latrine-shower-laundry area shared by 10 campsites. Land-owner wouldn't have to put in 10 plumbing-electric stations... just one central station. There is such a demand for this... so... WHERE ARE THEY...??? If cities themselves would support these, they could eliminate the human crisis of homelessness.

As for city living itself -- google "electro-smog" and "Fukushima" while you are deciding where you would most like to live.

 

[GotSmart]

HMMM, Shower and laundry, recharge your batteries, dump grey and fill with fresh water, and a safe spot for the night?

What would you say that is worth?

 

[dizzy]

I figured I'd chime in here as I am a city vandweller (in Los Angeles). I've been in the van since late Jan 2013. It's really had a lot less stress for me but then last night I got woken up by the coppers. I was parked on a quiet residential street which is one of my locations. When I park on that street (not too often, but occasionally), I usually park near an autoshop to blend in (there is often another similar van right there). I am more stealth, with a white, clean, 1998 Chevy cargo van. No solar on top yet, I haven't gotten around to modifying it yet. Just a clean van though you can see the reflectrix on the back van windows since that glass isn't tinted.

For some dumb reason I decided to use my computer "out in the open". I usually read books on my computer underneath a thicker blanket in bed to block out any residual light (there is a little crack between the ceiling and the curtain I have to separate the front. Folks, it only takes one time of not being stealth. I had a legit story (I was studying at the coffee shop up the street, didn't want to go home. I had a "bad situation at home" when they asked why I wasn't there.) Apparently someone called which is ridiculous, I was parked there about 4 hours, and had only actually been in the van 15-20 minutes. They sent THREE guys with flashlights to bang on the windows. I figured it was better to be honest but in retrospect maybe not a good idea, better to ignore.

I think my story, combined with the fact that I'm a reasonably attractive, youngish, clean-cut female, and still had my day clothes/shoes on (though they then asked several times "are you SURE no one else is in the van with you"? was a rather worrying implication
got me off the hook this time. I doubt they were expecting me to pop out of the van, probably were expecting some druggie or something. It was in Culver City so I plan to avoid that neighborhood a bit for a while.
I drove around for a while before parking on a friend's street in another neighborhood, not in Culver City jurisdiction, where I know there are usually a RV-dweller or 3 around, and also a construction site where it would be reasonable to see a cargo van like mine.

There are a LOT of NIMBYs here in LA/Venice, and while there are beat-up junkers all over the place, and obvious people living in RVs, I guess they will pick on anyone. The Haves and Have-nots are vastly separated in this town, and I really cannot wait until I finish my degree and can get the heck out of this city (which I now dislike for many reasons). In the meantime I cope by my skills of budget travel; I've spent over 3 of the months since vandwelling travelling in other cities and 20-odd countries! Yay, couch surfing + hostels + airplane miles + a couple scholarships. I also do house/pet sitting once in a while which also is a good way to break it up.

A close teacher/mentor of mine thinks it might be time to give up the experiment because of some anxiety attacks I had recently (a first for me) and resurgence of depression (this is a lifelong problem). I might consider renting a living room per month I need it if I can find something under $4-500 or so. Yes, people rent living rooms here, and they are STILL highly expensive. I will be going out of town during my break for 3 weeks though so just a little longer to hold out. I might crash at a friend's place right now if I can set it up, but it's bad timing for most of my pals.

As far as costs though, hard to beat. I've been using UPS for my mailbox and it's pretty cheap, $30 a month for a convenient nearby box. I'm able to use it for everything so far excepting a recent credit card application where I had to use a friend's address. I pay $27 a month at the Y for a pretty nice membership; this Y has a pool, and the one just a couple miles down the road has multiple pools, a hot tub, AND sauna (and classes ranging from boot camp to belly dancing). It's income-based and cheaper than most other gym memberships in the area. You can go to other Y's a certain # times/month (often they don't keep count) for free. I've never had to worry about heating, I usually cook at school so that's free too. I do have a fridge I got off craigslist for $200, a brand new dometic, but I currently don't have it hooked up since I'm literally at school 6-7 days a week. A very expensive cooler! I often spend free time parked down by a beach during the day (of course, can't park there at night, surprise, surprise). I usually park pretty close to where I need to be, so my gas is well under $50 a month, sometimes as low as only $20!

PS- It's ILLEGAL to live in your van here in LA, which is totally ridiculous, but something to know about if you want to try it here. In case y'all didn't know.

Anyway, some thoughts from a LA vandweller.

 

[caseyc]

Hi Dizzy,

Welcome to the club! Seeing that it's your first post, you should introduce yourself in the Introduction section of this forum. Thanks for the information, I found it interesting. I'm in Northern California myself. Dang, it sure sounds like the neighbors where you parked are over-anxious to call out the SWAT team at the drop of a hat! Smart move to decide to leave there. Hope things get better for you. The first few weeks and months will always be an adjustment period. But it sounds like you are willing and able to adapt to improve things, so you should do just fine. By the way, this new "life style" is relatively new to me too, so I too am adjusting.

Casey

 

[Belinda2]

Dr. Oz show yesterday was talking about the increased incidence of rapes with couch surfing. Just make sure you take care.

 

[Lifemagician]

Don't blame the system.

Like everything else, it takes research to be safe with Couchsurfing. The website itself has lots of information which most folk never read. All they see is someone offering a bed for free, and jump at it.

Having done quite a bit myself, and had about as many surf with me, even as a single senior female, I have always felt safe. I have had single males and females stay, just as I have stayed with families, couples and singles of both gender. But then, I have always done my homework, and established an email 'relationship' with the prospective host or surfer.

Danger lurks everywhere. Couchsurfing provide the information and the tools to help members make safe choices.. It is up to the individual to take the time and effort to do the research and choose according.

Lifey

 

[akrvbob]

Dizzy, in the beginning it is hard for nearly everybody, generally it gets better as you relax and become more comfortable with something so foreign.

I have a suggestion though. Run an ad on Craigslist asking to rent a space in a driveway for $100 a month (or whatever it will take. Chances are very good you will find someone and maybe even get an electric extension corf for a little extra.

Then you will have a "home" where you ca relax and let down and feel comfortable.

Good luck!! We're always here to answer your questions and offer all the help we can.
Bob

 

[SoulRaven]

Greetings & Welcome Dizzy!

Window vans might improve your anxiety attacks, and your depression. I did not make a happy cave dweller, living in a panel van. In my "Glass House" I am very happy.

The only time I even do stealth, is if I'm parked under a "No Camping" sign...

Check out the churches in the area you would like to stay, many will welcome you to stay as long as you like.

If you get hassled by cops while parking on the street, tell them your boyfriend cheated on you and gave you an STD or something (that'll play on their sympathy, and help keep their pants zipped up...), so for now you have no alternative but to live in your van, and ask them where you CAN park safely. Most will oblige. (That trick can work for other wannabe, overly friendly guys too... If needed, tell them that your treatment for your STD won't be completed for another 8 months, so you can't have any personal relationships until then. That should cool their heels...)

Living a mobile lifestyle can be very rewarding, don't let it intimidate you, and don't let others intimidate you. KEEP SAFE, but stay in charge of your own life and goals. You can always make changes later if you wish, but for now, you have probably chosen the most cost effective way for yourself to live.

Live well, laugh often, and smile at every opportunity...

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[Reducto]

Welcome Dizzy! Sounds like you have most things figured out. I had 5 cop cars surround me to come knock on my window once when I was at a park. The lot was half full when I parked but after the sun went down it emptied and I stood out. They all stayed there until the two officers who came to talk to me were done questioning me and running my license.

Lying to cops is generally a bad idea. If you get caught in a lie it becomes justification for searches and future hassling. A slightly tailored version of the truth should be enough - broke college student, last living situation didn't work out and you haven't found another one yet, you get so much studying done in the van, can they recommend a safe place to stay for that night?

 

[Luciano151]

I spend pretty much 100% of my time Urban Camping. For a given month, 1/2 of the time I am camped out somewhere in Orange County or Los Angeles. I follow certain rules because I want to be completely under the radar. My van, Maxine, is total stealth. From the outside it's impossible to know if somebody is living in there. These are some of my personal rules that I follow consistently.

1. Never park in the same place in a given week.
2. Never enter the van from the outside. Always enter from the front seat.
3. Never answer knocks. Unless a cop has probable cause, they can't break into a vehicle.
4. Never turn on interior lights unless I have my black out curtains on the windows. To maintain stealth, I take cut out black out curtains and I mount them on the back windows when I'm ready to sleep, using magnets. That way during the day, if people glance in from the back, they won't see curtains or curtain rods.
5. I am a firm believer in having a metal front cargo gate to keep the back portion of the van blocked off. From the front, it just looks like a cargo van. Since the door has it's own lock, it also keeps my stuff safer.
6. Never pull into an area to sleep before 9:00/10:00. Later if needed.
7. Don't trust anybody, when it comes to your vehicle. The less people know (even "friends") the better. Stealth isn't just making sure your van does not stand out. It's also about living life under the radar. Loose lips, sink ships.
8. Park so that in a pinch you can drive off. Have clothes at the ready, so if you have to take off, you can get dressed quick. Putting on sandals, shorts, shirt and bandana, takes me less then two or three minutes.
9. Take off in the morning as early as feasible, unless you are in a great spot with no foot or vehicle traffic.
10. Act like you should be where you are. Nothing attracts more trouble and bad luck than acting scared, nervous, and uncomfortable. People don't prey on individuals who look like they are comfortable with themselves and their surroundings. If you have to, fake it until you make it.

 

[Mobilesport]

So what happens if you dont answer a knock and they get a tow truck to impound your van.... with you in it?

Better to get a ride from a tow truck then to have the police throw a shock grenade through your window and smoke you out and taze you into submission .Lol
Plus with today's technology I think the police could tell your in there very easy with heat sensors

 

[Luciano151]

I think you missed my point. A police officer can't enter a vehicle without probable cause so the smartest thing to do is to just not answer a knock.

Regarding your other comment, no tow truck driver or company would ever told a vehicle with somebody in it. Besides being illegal, it also opens them up to a huge liability.

Your other comments I am going to assume are just you trying to be funny. Heat sensors? Stun grenades? I think you have a tw I think you have a
Than the Welling confused with the war in Afghanistan. lol.