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M2Travels said:
Wow, what a fantastic analysis.  Thanks so much for sharing.  It is apparent that there are still so many whole to be filled in the current van market for a  perfect van.  I did notice you left Sprinter out of your summary which is OK since I have ruled it out anyway for a variety of reasons. 

Maria

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Forgive me. My memory is short. I immediately discount the Sprinter because I believe all of them are diesel engines. Except for tractor trailers, gas engine technology engines have all the advantages and no smelly diesel fuel, EXPENSIVE frequent maintenance, constant break downs, or inherent pollution problems. Even VW couldn't hide the diesel pollution problems forever (my chemically sensitive nose does not tell lies.) The Sprinter craze has come and gone as fast at $2,000 tuneups every few months and getting stuck on the side of the road frequently. Diesels require steady constant maintenance, like a truck line can offer (they are the only ones or rich people with multiple company vehicles.)

Most people know by now. I'm just used to all the forums of truck owners all complained about the Sprinter's reliability and cost to keep them running. It's a major scam: don't buy it for one second. The only ones driving them may be because they can't afford a new van because the tuneups may keep them financially pinned down. All I know is I don't see them constantly, because they are in the shop frequently: until the owner(s) finally smell the (diesel) coffee.

The Sprinter would be a last choice or a rare deal one, and would be 'flipped' asap, imo.
 
I'm not recommending Sprinter here, but for someone looking to spend a lot to get a near-new van, and planning to sell it to at 5 years / 60-80K miles, to buy the next one,

a great below-market-price deal on a Sprinter would IMO be worth considering.

For whatever reason, they really do hold their market value at resale among the mechanically misinformed,

and taking advantage of the market's irrationality

can be very rational.
 
John61CT said:
I'm not recommending Sprinter here, but for someone looking to spend a lot to get a near-new van, and planning to sell it to at 5 years / 60-80K miles, to buy the next one,

In reading about the plans for the 2019 Sprinter, it seems Mercedes will be addressing the "Diesel problem" by offering a gasoline engine in the US.

Interesting article of their plans and that they are addressing the non-commercial users in upcoming models.  This was published in mid-December:

https://www.trucks.com/2017/12/04/mercedes-benz-strategy-2019-sprinter-van/



Mercedes-Benz Outlines Strategy for 2019 Sprinter Van

Mercedes-Benz provided a sneak peak of its plans for the 2019 Sprinter van Monday, saying it is positioning the new vehicle as a digital platform that will enhance the movement of goods and people as cities grow denser and traffic woes increase.

Automakers need to design commercial vehicles with the internet and connectivity in mind to meet the increasing demands of urban delivery, said Matthias Winkenbach of the Megacity Logistics Lab at Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Vehicles have to be connected to shippers and fleet managers to arrange deliveries. They have to be able to adjust routes in real time to avoid traffic. They must become part of an ecosystem for so-called last-mile delivery, the distribution of goods from a central warehouse or depot to the customer.
“They will have to work more as a device to communicate with all the players,” Winkenbach told Trucks.com.
That’s exactly Mercedes’ goal with the new Sprinter, said Volker Mornhinweg, head of Mercedes-Benz Vans.

“The completely reconceptualized Sprinter will be a unique, holistic transport solution: a completely networked van as part of the Internet of Things, where we have already written connectivity into the vehicle's DNA,”  Mornhinweg said.

The new Sprinter, Mercedes’ flagship van, will debut in February, but sales won't start until later in 2018. U.S. deliveries will begin closer to the end of next year. Other markets, including the U.S., will follow. This model will be the third generation since its introduction in 1995. The company has sold more than 3.3 million globally since its introduction, including a record 142,000 through the first nine months of this year.

In the U.S., the Sprinter van is a major player in the commercial work van segment. But in recent years it has gained importance in the consumer market as it developed a following among lifestyle buyerswho use the Sprinter as a mobile base for winter sports, surfing and other activities. Some even live in the vehicle full-time.

Globally, the new van will have options for front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive and all-wheel drive. It will be offered as a regular cab or crew cab, as a bus or panel van. Mercedes will sell it with right- or left-hand-drive depending on the market. There will be four different body lengths and three roof heights.

Specifications for the U.S. market are still to be announced, but Mornhinweg did offer some details.

It will be sold with a gasoline engine in the U.S. for the first time. The current model only has diesel engines choices. Only the rear-wheel-drive and four-wheel-drive models will be offered. The low- and high-roof models will be offered in the U.S. The mid-roof van is limited to other markets. The new version will have some of autonomous safety features such as adaptive cruise control and automatic emergency braking of Mercedes passenger cars.

Mercedes designed the new van to be adaptable to a wide range of uses and requirements. Depending on the customer, existing Sprinters are driven from 4,000 to more than 200,000 miles annually.

Often they are transporting a single craftsman or delivery driver. But the vans are used as buses and shuttles. One configuration of the new version can have seating for up to 20 passengers. The company is building in connectivity for ride-sharing and pooling.

Some versions will be equipped for grocery and prepared food delivery with different climate zones in the cargo area.

There will even be a battery-electric version. Mercedes didn’t provide details except to say that it will have a 41.4 kilowatt-hour battery pack and a range that will probably equate to around 100 miles based on the electric variant of a small van sold in Europe.

Mornhinweg said it will be fully capable and will come with consulting services to help customers discern whether electric drive will work for their businesses and routes. There will be a rapid-charging system that will be capable of charging the battery in 30 to 60 minutes.

“We don't simply want to build a battery on wheels,” Mornhinweg said.  How soon it might be a U.S. offering depends on demand.

“In a place like Manhattan it makes a lot of sense,” Mornhinweg said. Deliveries there are in a small geographic area and don’t require a lot of miles, he said.

To support U.S. sales, Mercedes corporate parent Daimler is building a new plant in North Charleston, S.C., that will produce the next-generation Sprinter starting next year.
Currently, Sprinter vans are built in Germany. However, due to an old tariff known as the chicken tax, Mercedes removes the drivetrain and other mechanical components from the strictly cargo versions before shipping them to Ladson, S.C., for reassembly. Otherwise, the cargo vans would be slapped with the 25 percent tariff.
Making the new van “intelligent” will be the key to its success, Mornhinweg said.

“The market for courier, express and parcel services is characterized by tight delivery deadlines, flexible delivery windows and high cost pressures,” he said. “This gives rise accordingly to a growing scope of applications for intelligent vehicles, which are required to play an even greater role in helping to keep companies with corresponding transport needs competitive and successful.”

The vans, for example, will be used for both the delivery and return of goods.  Functions such as  analyzing a repair technician’s service calls can digitally fine-tune the loading and mix of parts inventory that will be required for the route.
There already is not enough capacity to meet parcel delivery demand in much of the U.S. and Europe, Mornhinweg said.
Much of the technology that Mercedes is packing into the new van is designed to fill that gap.

Creating a vehicle that can deliver “more parcels in a time frame was our goal,” he said.

Building vehicles that can be connected to route optimization technology will be increasingly important for builders of commercial vans such as the Sprinter, Winkenbach said.
He cited a UPS study that found that a one-mile average reduction to its 55,000 daily delivery routes translates into an annual cost savings of more than $50 million.
“A minute gain in efficiency can lead to enormous economic effect,” Winkenbach said.

Logistics systems will have to become more autonomous and intelligent.

“We have to avoid sending a variety of vehicles through town half empty,” he said.
 
The reason I knew about the consensuses from previous owners on different van forums was  they were MAD! And they were the smartest, richest, most successful forum leaders, and the most outspoken on the web talking trash about Sprinters! That swarm of mad bees are not going to forget in a lifetiime about getting ripped off THOROUGHLY (Don't Tread on ME!); and over half of them are possible owner population targets for the Sprinter in the future. None of them want to start a motor truck line again or even think about the Mercedes badge on their vehicle. Good luck Mercedes, NOT!

I worked at Bosch in SC, and it was great as long as I had expertise they wanted; but generally, they treated us like 'dumb Amedicans.' And Mercedes is the snobbiest of the snoots. I think Sprinter just ran out of market places to sell in, but they are good at propaganda: let's find out (?). If someone buys one of the long tall thin vans, let me know how it turns out; but you better sell it before the warranty runs out!
:D
 
Only the very tinyiest proportion of vehicle buyers have any even idea of what an internet discussion forum is, much less seeking out info and opinions there.
 
This is CHEAP RV LIVING.  There ain't nothing cheap when you are involved with a Mercedes.  I've even known a couple girls named Mercedes and they weren't cheap either.  I'll just have to let John and all the "enlightened" enjoy them.
 
M2Travels said:
The towing capacity of a Chevy 6.0l is 10,000 lb and the Ford Transit ecoboost 3.73 w tow package is 7500lb so both would work.

Based on this alone I'd choose the Chevy as you'll have a larger buffer between the weight rating and actual weight towing which if nothing else is a more relaxed drive at lower RPMs with less strain on the drive train. I haven't checked but the differences in tow ratings with these two might also include differences in GVWR & GCVWR.
 
I just went through this myself. GMC extended with 6.0 then add hightop or Ford Transit with Ecoboost/3.73 and factory high roof.

The Ford makes 400ft/lbs @ 2500rpm and the GMC makes 373ft/lbs @ 4400 rpm (Chevy site says @4200rpm, same motor so cannot explain the disparity). The Ford is already making 300ft/lbs 2000rpm.

I drove both and the GMC drove like any other V8 I've driven, smooth solid power but really needed some rpm's when I pulled my loaded trailer. The Ford drove smoother and at lower rpm's and it was surprising how quick/sprightly it was empty and when pulling my trailer (same trailer, same load, aluminum car hauler with 1970 Chevelle) the Transit felt like Big Blocks I've had in the past. Smooth, low-rpm, effortless power.

I think a lot of that is that I never went over 3,000rpm with the Ford and I needed nearly 5,000rpm with the GMC.

All that said and done I was going to go with the GMC mostly because it had a V8 but in the end, I ordered a Ford Transit.

The factory hightop and impressive towing experience are what made me go with the Transit. Time will tell if I made the right decision.

Building out the Transit should be smoother and with 81" of interior height and not have to deal with the wall transition. The large, wide, flat roof with factory mount provisions will make solar a clean install. I'm in the "sell down" phase to going Nomad and will build out my van while I still have a revenue stream.

Let us know which way you go.
 
vtmactech said:
I just went through this myself. GMC extended with 6.0 then add hightop or Ford Transit with Ecoboost/3.73 and factory high roof.

The Ford makes 400ft/lbs @ 2500rpm and the GMC makes 373ft/lbs @ 4400 rpm (Chevy site says @4200rpm, same motor so cannot explain the disparity). The Ford is already making 300ft/lbs 2000rpm.

I drove both and the GMC drove like any other V8 I've driven, smooth solid power but really needed some rpm's when I pulled my loaded trailer. The Ford drove smoother and at lower rpm's and it was surprising how quick/sprightly it was empty and when pulling my trailer (same trailer, same load, aluminum car hauler with 1970 Chevelle) the Transit felt like Big Blocks I've had in the past. Smooth, low-rpm, effortless power.

I think a lot of that is that I never went over 3,000rpm with the Ford and I needed nearly 5,000rpm with the GMC.

All that said and done I was going to go with the GMC mostly because it had a V8 but in the end, I ordered a Ford Transit.

The factory hightop and impressive towing experience are what made me go with the Transit. Time will tell if I made the right decision.

Building out the Transit should be smoother and with 81" of interior height and not have to deal with the wall transition. The large, wide, flat roof with factory mount provisions will make solar a clean install. I'm in the "sell down" phase to going Nomad and will build out my van while I still have a revenue stream.

Let us know which way you go.
I really appreciate your story.  In truth I have been all over the board. I first decided on the Chevy based solely on towing and cargo capacity but did not like the "add on roof" and how the roof add on impacts how I want to use the walls.  Next I headed towards the Nissan NV based on owners reviews and comments.  Everyone seems very happy with their vans. It drives well but the smaller cargo area was one deal breaker. The other deal breaker on the Nissan NV 3500 is that is has to be serviced commercially and where I travel there are not always going to be Nissan Commercial Service Centers.   I just don't think that will make me happy in the long run so now I am back to the Fords and have found a few I am interested in.  One was perfect but already has a deposit on it so I got next in line.  My hopes are not high I will get it but have three others that are almost perfect for my needs. Will let you know what I do in the end as it seems to change daily.  This is a much more difficult decision that I expected.  There is really a gap in the van market for the non fleet consumer.
 
M2Travels said:
I really appreciate your story.  In truth I have been all over the board. I first decided on the Chevy based solely on towing and cargo capacity but did not like the "add on roof" and how the roof add on impacts how I want to use the walls.  Next I headed towards the Nissan NV based on owners reviews and comments.  Everyone seems very happy with their vans. It drives well but the smaller cargo area was one deal breaker. The other deal breaker on the Nissan NV 3500 is that is has to be serviced commercially and where I travel there are not always going to be Nissan Commercial Service Centers.   I just don't think that will make me happy in the long run so now I am back to the Fords and have found a few I am interested in.  One was perfect but already has a deposit on it so I got next in line.  My hopes are not high I will get it but have three others that are almost perfect for my needs. Will let you know what I do in the end as it seems to change daily.  This is a much more difficult decision that I expected.  There is really a gap in the van market for the non fleet consumer.

If you want dealers every where, then Ford or Cheverolet are your models of choice. If you want fault free manufacturing history, the Nissan NV is your choice from 2012 to 2016. Japan only well designed this vehicle, but MS and TN manufacture it, and that is bottom line of quality. It the best Japan has made in my trained opinion (I have number one in the world Industrial and Systems Engineering, and Manufacturing System Engineering degrees.)

I also think the NV 3500 is the best one-ton high roof van America has ever made as well. Visiting a dealer near the State Capital (except California has more) city once a year is not a big deal to me. I'd travel up to 600 miles to get a competent motorcycle mechanic for off-brand (BMW) motorcycles: owning a Jap bike (Kawasaki) is much better in every respect, in hind site.

Put your pluses and minuses on paper, and then make your choice. If you want to spend up to 20 hours a week at a dealer service, then Ford or Cheverolet can't be beat. If you only want to go to service once a year (mainly synthetic oil change every 5k miles) or for rv electric upgrades every 10 to 20 years, then Nissan NV (2012 to 2016) rules.

Yes, Nissan's Pickup-truck ergonomic front end lets you stretch out and not use your knees for front bumpers; and that costs you 2.5' length wise room, but it is 6'-5' high inside. Do your due diligence and plan, plan, plan. It 'can' be done, and when your are through, you have a more perfect vehicle: no waste! And I bet you are not even fitting a 650cc motorcycle in your van either :rolleyes: And no van is fast or handles as well as a Nissan NV 3500 (even the High Roof with Sumo springs, for $209 + $50 installation. ;)
 
I have looked through the comments and did not see any comments about the Chevy 2.8 Liter Duramax diesel or the Ford 3.2 Liter Power Stroke I5 diesel.

Is there a reason for this? The mpg and range look to be dramatically improved compared to the gas version.
 
Increased maintenance costs would overwhelm fuel savings if any
 
I checked the maintenance schedule for the Duramax and it needs the timing belt changed at 150k. I think the cost of replacement is under $800, need to double check that price. I did not see anything else of significance, am I missing something?

I ran the fuel cost which is below. I plan on living and traveling in Canada so I did those numbers

Vancouver Washington Fuel Cost
mpg Total Miles Total Fuel Cost per/gal Total Cost Fuel
Gas 17 100000 5882.35 $2.73 $16,058.82ce
Diesel 25 100000 4000.00 $2.89 $11,560.00
Difference $4,498.82

British Columbia, Canada
mpg Total Miles Total Fuel Cost per/gal Total Cost Fuel
Gas 17 100000 5882.35 $4.99 $29,352.94
Diesel 25 100000 4000.00 $4.80 $19,200.00
Difference $10,152.94
Exchange Rate 0.79 $8,020.82
 
Maybe diesels are more common and labor more reasonably priced in Canada?

My understanding is it makes little sense for consumer use in the States, unless you can do the work yourself.
 
I have ruled out diesels for a variety of reasons at this point which may be why there were no comments on those vans I think I have decided to go with the Ford Transit even with the recalls and keep my fingers crossed. My decision really came down to wanting a powerful gas engine, a factory hightop and reasonable cargo area in a van that can still fit into a lot of parking spaces. If Chevy would make a hightop, it would be a strong contender. I really liked how the Nissan drove but want the extra cargo length and don't like having to have it serviced only at commercial dealers. Now I have to find a van in my price range, sell my Lance Trailer, sell my SUV all while living fulltime on the road.
 
I know how hard it is to pick one. That is why I eliminated models instead, and that made it much easier.
You can spend a lifetime on van company market spins without learning anything.

But every choice I (thought I) made, I spent months time on the model's forum web sites. The Transit site in the USA is pretty complete. It is HUGE though, but is time well spent in understanding what you will be going through day to day. I spent the most time on the Transit site, because the whole product line is so variable and complex (just try to match options together!), it's hard to understand what you are getting with so much variability (and how MUCH $$$$$ it will cost.) That's what I appreciated about the NV 3500: they are all loaded and not a million options.

But the Transit site, USA, is the best oem van forum website on the net, imo, from the high roof models I looked at anyway. It's a clean and well run site, far superior to the Nissan NV forum site (Canada I think), lol (you can't have everything :) Good luck and you should enjoy the Transit USA site!
 
Serpentine refers as much to the complex pulley path as the actual belt.

Multi-grooved V-belt, also "ribbed", say 6 or 8 grooves or more is the usual profile for high-load accessory belts, water pump aircon etc

Internal timing belts are completely different, profiles include Trapezoidal, Curvilinear, Modified Curvilinear . . .
 

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