Choosing a Van?

[M2Travels]

I am in the process of changing my 2016 Tahoe for a van. The Tahoe is paid for so I am able to spend as much as I can sell the Tahoe for on a van but would rather spend less if possible.  I have looked at used Sprinter Vans, Ford Transit Vans, Nissan NV and Chevy Express Vans.  Since I full time and will have to convert the van while on the road my plan is to buy something that has tow capabilities and continue to live in my 2185 Lance TT until the van is converted.  At that point I want to sell my TT and buy a small cargo trailer to pull behind the van for extra cargo capacity. I am a photographer who mostly  travels alone  and can be in very remote places so reliability is critical in my decision.  I was leading towards the Ford Transit ecoboost van with a 3.73 (for towing) but the recalls and user complaints about breakdowns on all Transit Vans is concerning.   Next up is the Sprinter Vans but the ability to service them in remote locations is a big concern.   The NV and Chevy are next.  My concern with the NV is its size.   So last on my list is a used newer model Chevy Express Extended body van and add a high top.  Which van would you choose in my situation? 

Maria

 

[KathyC]

From what I can tell, your tow weight needs for the Lance/cargo trailer will determine not only which van brands/models are in the mix, but which drivetrain you need.

If it was me, I would determine my max towing and payload needs, then start on the mfg. websites for specs. That should help you refine your possibilities and from there you can narrow down based on other factors that matter to you most (e.g., reliability, availability, price, features, space, etc.).

Unfortunately, there is no "perfect" choice, since we all have different needs.

If you haven't watched Bob Wells' series on "Choosing a Van", it's highly recommended:

 

[closeanuf]

Chevy Express with 6.0 V-8

 

[breeze]

Logical choice, the fault-free, only Japanese High Roof Van, largest V8 engine in it's class: 2016 Nissan 3500 High Roof SL (deluxe) model, as new as possible, but you can go back to 2012 with little risk. There not much difference in new (cheapest of all vans new) and used (holds resale value because of high used van quality levels.)

I don't know about 2017's, since I waited for their introduction: but the new 7 speed, from a previous 5 speed, transmission sure felt and sounded like a slipping transmission (and all the forums were abuzz about the new Nissan V8 slipping transmissions too!) So I took no chance, because the 2016 Nissan NV 3500 Van drives like a Crown Vic: faultless. Don't let anyone tell you different because they are 100% lying.

2 mpg difference or likely transmission fault: Do you feel lucky? I'll 'settle' for the best high roof van ever made, and wait 5 more years for the next NV high roof van model: if I ever need another van. This is a multiple million mile truck any way you look at it. It's success has kept Toyota and Honda out the High Roof van market so far!

 

[M2Travels]

From what I can tell, your tow weight needs for the Lance/cargo trailer will determine not only which van brands/models are in the mix, but which drivetrain you need.  

If it was me, I would determine my max towing and payload needs, then start on the mfg. websites for specs.  That should help you refine your possibilities and from there you can narrow down based on other factors that matter to you most (e.g., reliability, availability, price, features, space, etc.).

Unfortunately, there is no "perfect" choice, since we all have different needs.  

If you haven't watched Bob Wells' series on "Choosing a Van", it's highly recommended:

Yes, I have already done all the above and narrowed my choices down to the vans that meet my needs.

 

[M2Travels]

Logical choice, the fault-free, only Japanese High Roof Van, largest V8 engine in it's class: 2016 Nissan 3500 High Roof SL (deluxe) model, as new as possible, but you can go back to 2012 with little risk. There not much difference in new (cheapest of all vans new) and used (holds resale value because of high used van quality levels.)

I don't know about 2017's, since I waited for their introduction: but the new 7 speed, from a previous 5 speed, transmission sure felt and sounded like a slipping transmission (and all the forums were abuzz about the new Nissan V8 slipping transmissions too!) So I took no chance, because the 2016 Nissan NV 3500 Van drives like a Crown Vic: faultless. Don't let anyone tell you different because they are 100% lying.

2 mpg difference or likely transmission fault: Do you feel lucky? I'll 'settle' for the best high roof van ever made, and wait 5 more years for the next NV high roof van model: if I ever need another van. This is a multiple million mile truck any way you look at it. It's success has kept Toyota and Honda out the High Roof van market so far!

Thanks for the recommendation and I agree with how the Van drives and have come very close to buying it.  My only hesitation with the NV is that they do not offer an extended body and I would be forced into always towing a cargo trailer with some type of combined living between both vehicles.  There are worst things I realize such as driving an unreliable vehicle!

 

[M2Travels]

Let me add a couple things to my original post. I am specifically looking at the Chevy Express 6.0, the Nissan with tow package, the Ford Ecoboost w 3.73 or Sprinters capable of towing 6000lb. If that helps you guys direct me. I have already ruled out everything that does not meet my towing needs. Also my concern with the Nissan is that is is not available in a longer body van. Since I full time and the plan is to convert the van and sell the trailer, I worry that the van is too short in the cargo area. Hope that helps and sorry if I did not make the clearer in my first post.

 

[Chuck1]

I was researching vans and saw an article about Sprinter Vans that a plumbing company wrote, granted they drove them a lot but he had nothing but problems on most of them.

A Chevy or Ford gas is well known and anyone can fix them, but you have to add the hightop, A Ford Transit Van is nice but the towing capacty is only 4000-6000lb depending on build, if you don't need to tow heavy that would be a good choice.

My choice would be a Chevy Express awd, then put a high top on it, expeditionportal has a full write up and a search will get you builds to look at

GM fullsize AWD Van Info thread
http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/137390-GM-fullsize-AWD-Van-Info-thread

 

[M2Travels]

I was researching vans and saw an article about Sprinter Vans that a plumbing company wrote, granted they drove them a lot but he had nothing but problems on most of them.

A Chevy or Ford gas is well known and anyone can fix them, but you have to add the hightop, A Ford Transit Van is nice but  the towing capacty is only 4000-6000lb depending on build, if you don't need to tow heavy that would be a good choice.

My choice would be a Chevy Express awd, then put a high top on it, expeditionportal has a full write up and a search will get you builds to look at

GM fullsize AWD Van Info thread
http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/137390-GM-fullsize-AWD-Van-Info-thread

The towing capacity of a Chevy 6.0l is 10,000 lb and the Ford Transit ecoboost 3.73 w tow package is 7500lb so both would work.  I agree with you about the Sprinters. They more I researched them the more issues I saw with people being able to have them services as well as the cost of service.  For that reason I am ruling them out.  My pocketbook is not big enough for Mercedes repair costs.   I guess it is going to come down to which of these I can find used with lower mileage and in good condition.  Thanks for your help.

 

[deadwood]

When I was researching vans I spent about the first 20 min on the sprinter forum and that was enough to keep me away. Too many problems that only a dealer can fix. And that is after the dealer orders the part and waits a week or two for it to show up.

I bought a Transit and have loved it since the day I took it home. I'm on the Transit forum as well and even though some problems come up they seem minimal compared to the Sprinters. And now that my warranty is up I know I can take the Transit to any Ford dealer in the country.. or any mechanic in the country and they can get parts for it and fix it pretty quickly for less money.

The Eco Boost is a beast and has some serious towing power. Not to mention that it is actually pretty fun to drive with all the power under the hood. All the newer vans have some pro's and con's to them. None is the perfect van in my opinion. But for my needs the Transit came out way ahead of the Promaster or the Sprinter.

 

[4x4sporty]

Chevy express 6.0 I LOVE MINE.

 

[FinallyFree]

Similar situation here, I was towing a 20' TT with an 04 Yukon. After deciding to downsize to a van, I finally settled on a NV2500 which is now my tow vehicle until I finish the conversion. Logistics can be a pain at times, but if you like to design and build things, you'll have a blast!

 

[Minivanmotoman]

FWIW,
NV comes with a great warranty, bumper to bumper and appear to have solid reviews for reliability.
Will the few feet less be really that significant vs reliability and warranty? You decide.

Chevy Extended, is so well known and proven that they have not updated in years and still had increased sales last year as reported in a recent article that I read where Ford and Ram declined. Fleet buyers still buying tried and true. Lots to be said for that.

Ford Ecoboost. Have turbo and reliability in a gas vehicle ever been proven? In a Ford? Research info on the police explorer interceptors and how they have been holding up in service fyi. Personally sceptical about turbos long term reliability. Do you want to take that chance,? Up to you.

Reliability, price and long term costs/repairs trumps all others in my book. Decide what are yours.

Research those questions would give the answer imho. Knowledgeable, unbiased sources should help you.

 

[cortttt]

I am in the process of changing my 2016 Tahoe for a van. The Tahoe is paid for so I am able to spend as much as I can sell the Tahoe for on a van but would rather spend less if possible.  I have looked at used Sprinter Vans, Ford Transit Vans, Nissan NV and Chevy Express Vans.  Since I full time and will have to convert the van while on the road my plan is to buy something that has tow capabilities and continue to live in my 2185 Lance TT until the van is converted.  At that point I want to sell my TT and buy a small cargo trailer to pull behind the van for extra cargo capacity. I am a photographer who mostly  travels alone  and can be in very remote places so reliability is critical in my decision.  I was leading towards the Ford Transit ecoboost van with a 3.73 (for towing) but the recalls and user complaints about breakdowns on all Transit Vans is concerning.   Next up is the Sprinter Vans but the ability to service them in remote locations is a big concern.   The NV and Chevy are next.  My concern with the NV is its size.   So last on my list is a used newer model Chevy Express Extended body van and add a high top.  Which van would you choose in my situation? 

Maria

As I remember the Nissan NV and extended Chevy Express / GMC Savana are about the same length. (Nissan 20' 1": Express extended - 20' 33") Check this out, though, if you go with the hi-top on the Nissan you get MORE cargo volume than the Chevy extended van. Nissan - 323 cu fit ; Chevy - 284 Cu ft. Based on that - go with the Nissan.

I couldn't find the specs on the Transit but look underneath the rear end and see how poor the clearance is. I wouldn't take it far into remote locations. I rented one and got stuck in several places the GMC never did. It's also got small tires. 

I love my GMC - I think it will probably be more reliable than the Nissan - they've been working the kinks out of it for years - but the Nissan is alluring because it's well thought out and has a shorter wheelbase for turning around. It's probably all around a better vehicle but I don't know about its reliability. The people on the NV Forums seem to be doing OK but Nissan's Titan and other trucks (except for the Frontier) tend to have very average or either poor reliability on Consumer Reports. On the other hand - you have this nice warranty....

 

[cortttt]

I just read a review from someone who owned a 2009 Express 6.0L and who now owns a V8 Nissan. She LOVED the 5.6L (I think) Nissan; better ride and handling and lots more power.

Either way I think you're going to get a good van.

 

[breeze]

Thanks for the recommendation and I agree with how the Van drives and have come very close to buying it.  My only hesitation with the NV is that they do not offer an extended body and I would be forced into always towing a cargo trailer with some type of combined living between both vehicles.  There are worst things I realize such as driving an unreliable vehicle!

My extensive HIGH ROOF van surveys (no disrespect to anyone.) I have over 5 year in automotive industrial engineering consulting for all Tiers of automotive manufacturing for all the main manufacturers in USA (although almost all of them were from abroad: Fiat, Bosch, ...)

1. FORD Transits - 
good - Ford GT (race car) power plant 6 cyl,
- lots of repair dealers (and you'll need them, because it will be a part time job as long as you own it!)

bad - light weight frame (uni-minded Ford engineers/reps/employees- whatever the boss says and nothing else) bends almost every time you go over a speed bump, 
- Constant alignments and frame bends and tires - $$$$
- too many loose ends of design that are never fixed (see US main Transit forum), 
- it takes years to find out all the options available because you have to go to a 2 year school to figure it out - WAY too many unengineered options - $$$,$$$
- anything but the GT power plants are sub standard, and dealers just keep rotating the other ones to vacant parking lots continuously(!),
- Ford Transit's main color (WHITE) is a PRIMER paint which is a cost saver carried over from Europe where it was introduced. You need to really get a White color dual painted!
- No HD V8 engine for a HD van (it's not a race car)
- Up to huge cumbersome GoodYear blimps of soft AL that make driving a tractor trailer look easy.

2. RAM Promaster -
good - unlike Ford Transit's odd shaped cargo area, it is a conventional cargo area refined in Europe for many years as I understand it.
- like Ford, it has a Maserati 6 cylinder race engine.

bad - under-duty minivan transmission $$$$$.

3. Chev/GM (I did not originally include it in my High Roof Van survey because they did not make one, however I'll give some of my automotive engineering background experience: which MAY NOT exactly correlate from automotive to trucks!)

good - stable unchanged manufacturing design for decades
- v8 engine 
- good transmission
- good ac
- heavy duty steel frame
- anything Bob says additionally  - I have since learned a lot of good GM features from Bob that make logical sense

bad - they don't make a high roof,
- GM is the only company that makes an 15% excess for engine rebuild parts (and they use them)
- GM's are the best manufacturable parts due to a wide manufacturing tolerances - thus engine rebuilds, and excess oil usage - sometimes driving off the car lot,
- I used to think GM's had the best paint jobs, but a GM enthusiast and paint/body shop owner told me they look good because they get repainted soon after they drive off the lot (but I hear they are good-to-go after a fresh rebuild and paint job.)

4. Nissan NV 3500 Cargo Van
good - biggest most powerful hd v8 engine in van class
- faultless defect record
- little risk in used vans
- cheapest of all new high roof vans
- best handling van due to longer pickup truck front end
- best ergonomics (stretch out) due to longer pickup truck front end
- best Japanese electronics of all High Roof vans
- long successful (identical) product line from 2012 to 2016
- best 5 year 100,000 mile warrranty
- Cheapest new van possible
- heavy duty steel frame
-  6' - 5" cargo headroom
- only a FEW well engineered options for a superior designed vehicle
- Japanese quality (My first one   
- 3900 lb payload
- almost 10,000 lb tow with class 4 hitch
- several 12v and several 110v outlets in front and back, from new

bad - due to pickup truck front end for a 20' long vehicle, cargo space is limited a few feet of space,
(Buddah says greed does not have limits, and it makes you engineer your space from what is available)
- All Nissan High Roof vans are 6k lbs heavy, but for a hd van, it's more of a benefit than the couple of mpg's lost, imo.
- the Ford Transit forum guys say it's ugly, as they drive off sitting on a pickle barrel
- mpg - > best - 15 to 17, avg city traffic - 12 to 15, drifting or hauling A - worse (but it CAN haul A, although I'm cheap and don't do it.)

---------------------------------------------------------------

That was approximately how I paretoed  my buying factors: high roof, heavy duty, well engineered, Jap electronics, best handling, alignments, transmission, ac, maintenance warranty/reliability.

Things I let slide are 3 mpg and carrying a 10' x 10' storage with me (but it is 6'-5" cargo headroom!) Soft AL frames/alignments/bent frames and minivan transmissions are much worse and much more costly factors that effect a HD van owner!  Ymmv!

 

[M2Travels]

My extensive HIGH ROOF van surveys (no disrespect to anyone.) I have over 5 year in automotive industrial engineering consulting for all Tiers of automotive manufacturing for all the main manufacturers in USA (although almost all of them were from abroad: Fiat, Bosch, ...)

1. FORD Transits - 
good - Ford GT (race car) power plant 6 cyl,
- lots of repair dealers (and you'll need them, because it will be a part time job as long as you own it!)

bad - light weight frame (uni-minded Ford engineers/reps/employees- whatever the boss says and nothing else) bends almost every time you go over a speed bump, 
- Constant alignments and frame bends and tires - $$$$
- too many loose ends of design that are never fixed (see US main Transit forum), 
- it takes years to find out all the options available because you have to go to a 2 year school to figure it out - WAY too many unengineered options - $$$,$$$
- anything but the GT power plants are sub standard, and dealers just keep rotating the other ones to vacant parking lots continuously(!),
- Ford Transit's main color (WHITE) is a PRIMER paint which is a cost saver carried over from Europe where it was introduced. You need to really get a White color dual painted!
- No HD V8 engine for a HD van (it's not a race car)
- Up to huge cumbersome GoodYear blimps of soft AL that make driving a tractor trailer look easy.

2. RAM Promaster -
good - unlike Ford Transit's odd shaped cargo area, it is a conventional cargo area refined in Europe for many years as I understand it.
- like Ford, it has a Maserati 6 cylinder race engine.

bad - under-duty minivan transmission $$$$$.

3. Chev/GM (I did not originally include it in my High Roof Van survey because they did not make one, however I'll give some of my automotive engineering background experience: which MAY NOT exactly correlate from automotive to trucks!)

good - stable unchanged manufacturing design for decades
- v8 engine 
- good transmission
- good ac
- heavy duty steel frame
- anything Bob says additionally  - I have since learned a lot of good GM features from Bob that make logical sense

bad - they don't make a high roof,
- GM is the only company that makes an 15% excess for engine rebuild parts (and they use them)
- GM's are the best manufacturable parts due to a wide manufacturing tolerances - thus engine rebuilds, and excess oil usage - sometimes driving off the car lot,
- I used to think GM's had the best paint jobs, but a GM enthusiast and paint/body shop owner told me they look good because they get repainted soon after they drive off the lot (but I hear they are good-to-go after a fresh rebuild and paint job.)

4. Nissan NV 3500 Cargo Van
good - biggest most powerful hd v8 engine in van class
- faultless defect record
- little risk in used vans
- cheapest of all new high roof vans
- best handling van due to longer pickup truck front end
- best ergonomics (stretch out) due to longer pickup truck front end
- best Japanese electronics of all High Roof vans
- long successful (identical) product line from 2012 to 2016
- best 5 year 100,000 mile warrranty
- Cheapest new van possible
- heavy duty steel frame
-  6' - 5" cargo headroom
- only a FEW well engineered options for a superior designed vehicle
- Japanese quality (My first one   
- 3900 lb payload
- almost 10,000 lb tow with class 4 hitch
- several 12v and several 110v outlets in front and back, from new

bad - due to pickup truck front end for a 20' long vehicle, cargo space is limited a few feet of space,
(Buddah says greed does not have limits, and it makes you engineer your space from what is available)
- All Nissan High Roof vans are 6k lbs heavy, but for a hd van, it's more of a benefit than the couple of mpg's lost, imo.
- the Ford Transit forum guys say it's ugly, as they drive off sitting on a pickle barrel
- mpg - > best - 15 to 17, avg city traffic - 12 to 15, drifting or hauling A - worse (but it CAN haul A, although I'm cheap and don't do it.)

---------------------------------------------------------------

That was approximately how I paretoed  my buying factors: high roof, heavy duty, well engineered, Jap electronics, best handling, alignments, transmission, ac, maintenance warranty/reliability.

Things I let slide are 3 mpg and carrying a 10' x 10' storage with me (but it is 6'-5" cargo headroom!) Soft AL frames/alignments/bent frames and minivan transmissions are much worse and much more costly factors that effect a HD van owner!  Ymmv!

Wow, what a fantastic analysis.  Thanks so much for sharing.  It is apparent that there are still so many whole to be filled in the current van market for a  perfect van.  I did notice you left Sprinter out of your summary which is OK since I have ruled it out anyway for a variety of reasons. 

Maria

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[cortttt]

Wow, what a fantastic analysis.  Thanks so much for sharing.  It is apparent that there are still so many whole to be filled in the current van market for a  perfect van.  I did notice you left Sprinter out of your summary which is OK since I have ruled it out anyway for a variety of reasons. 

Maria

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Be very wary about ascribing Japanese quality to Nissan. It used to be that way. Nissan used to make very reliable vehicles. Twenty-five years ago I had a Frontier that went over 200K....But not anymore! Not since Ghosn took over.  They don't have the commitment to quality that they used to.  

Consumer Reports states "Once strong, reliability is now average". It's a shame to see the Pathfinder get such lousy reliability ratings - those were bulletproof at one time. 

Reliability Estimates According to Consumer Reports 

Nissan Titan - 2/5 
Nissan NV - 3/5
Nissan NV200 - 3/5
Nissan Pathfinder - 3/5

Predicted Owner Satisfaction - 2//5

It should be noted that CR gives the Chevy Express/GMC Savana the same reliability ratings and a bit more owner satisfaction (3/5)

The Ford Transit also gets a 3/5; so does the Sprinter - everyone gets a 3 in reliability, so according to CR, anyway, it's all a wash...

The Chevy Silverado by the way gets a 1/5 - which is why I worry about any new van Chevy puts out...

 

[WalkaboutTed]

When my husband and I decided to embark on vandwelling, there was one absolute: it must be a true factory built hightop.  We went through the analysis of all the current hightop cargo vans available-the Sprinter,Transit, Promaster and the NV.  

We weren't happy with the shorter "box" of the NV, but after considering all the variables, it won, hands down.  I just had to be creative with space management, but I was able to fit everything into it.  Except Hubby.  After spending a very long weekend together, I decided that I would murder him if we traveled together long term. It would have been the same with any van.  So,  Hubby bought his own Nissan NV. After having had mine for over a year, there was no question on the brand of our second van.  

Our decision to travel separately/together was right-regardless of the size of the van.  Since I am going to be alone for a month or two at a time, I decided that I must have a dog.  Well, this particular puppy in a van wasn't going to work, so I bought a 16' trailer.   Hubby and I are currently out on BLM land right now, finishing up his conversion and setting up my electric/solar system on the trailer.  Even with being in a comparatively huge trailer together, I can't wait for him to leave on a long trip.

Though I'm currently not traveling inside my van, I am still very happy with my decision-she's (my van's name is Blanca) a splendid tow vehicle.  She can pull 9500 lbs.  But there is a problem with her while towing: I forget that our trailer is behind me.  Hills are easy.  

The NV was the best choice for us.  You are researching diligently and will make an informed decision that will work for you. Happy travels!
Ted

 

[M2Travels]

When my husband and I decided to embark on vandwelling, there was one absolute: it must be a true factory built hightop.  We went through the analysis of all the current hightop cargo vans available-the Sprinter,Transit, Promaster and the NV.  

We weren't happy with the shorter "box" of the NV, but after considering all the variables, it won, hands down.  I just had to be creative with space management, but I was able to fit everything into it.  Except Hubby.  After spending a very long weekend together, I decided that I would murder him if we traveled together long term. It would have been the same with any van.  So,  Hubby bought his own Nissan NV. After having had mine for over a year, there was no question on the brand of our second van.  

Our decision to travel separately/together was right-regardless of the size of the van.  Since I am going to be alone for a month or two at a time, I decided that I must have a dog.  Well, this particular puppy in a van wasn't going to work, so I bought a 16' trailer.   Hubby and I are currently out on BLM land right now, finishing up his conversion and setting up my electric/solar system on the trailer.  Even with being in a comparatively huge trailer together, I can't wait for him to leave on a long trip.

Though I'm currently not traveling inside my van, I am still very happy with my decision-she's (my van's name is Blanca) a splendid tow vehicle.  She can pull 9500 lbs.  But there is a problem with her while towing: I forget that our trailer is behind me.  Hills are easy.  

The NV was the best choice for us.  You are researching diligently and will make an informed decision that will work for you. Happy travels!
Ted

Love your story and thanks for sharing and giving me a good laugh this morning.  I think you will relate to this, I am a early 60's single woman on the road and get asked frequently why I don't have a "man in my life".  My answer is always that if I could find a man that would be content to live in his own space and just connect with me on the road from time to time I would consider it.  To travel in such a small space joined at the hip is just too much to ask of my free spirited soul!  You are doing it the right way!  Oh, also thanks for the  NV input.  I keep getting positive comments and am rethinking the van as a choice.  I may just have to think about a little larger cargo trailer and go with the NV.