Cheap Heating?

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hippiechk said:
@ compassrose

M.E.N. sure did become a glossy yuppie rag compared to the lovely pulpy first generation real D.I.Y. stuff. ...

...One of my best blankets was $1 at the local thrift shop, I recognize it as a standard hospital issue and it never feels clammy and is very warm for cotton.
Couldn't agree more on MEN. It went yuppie when it was bought out from the original owners. Then it was sold again and slowly slide back to slightly more DIY but not like it used to be.


Gotta love thrift stores!
 
i love Mother Earth News, been getting since it started, they are doing a great Job I think, I just renewed for (2) more years..
 
PastTense said:
This is going to put out a miniscule amount of heat. Candles are probably one of the most expensive energy sources. Here is one comment:
"This will radiate heat at about the heat output of a candle (80W according to wikipedia [1]); so you'd need 6 to make as much heat as a 480W electric heater. But this is r/frugal, so let's take a look at the costs:

From wikipedia a candle has 80W of heat output. [1]

From this seller [2] you can get tea candles with 4 hours output for $0.0708 each ($0.0875 with shipping).

Although the above statement may be true if heating a home or even a room, the people on this forum, I think, are interested in heating a van. When costs were calculated comparing candle heat to electric heat one must include the cost of the heater as you did the cost of shipping the candles.
So the total kWh per candle is 80W * 4hr / 1000 = 0.32 kWh

For a cost per kWh of heat of: $0.0708 / 0.32 kWh = $0.221/kWh ($0.273 with shipping)

Compare this to an electric heater. 100% of the electricity is converted to heat, so you want to look at your marginal price per kWh (how much you pay at the highest tier you're paying for electricity at).

[3] has the average electricity price by state -- only in Hawaii (at $0.363/kWh) is the candle heater frugal on the average. On the other hand, if your electric bill pushes you into higher electricity tiers in the winter, and you're paying more than 22.1 cents per kWh (or 27.3 cents with shipping), then this may be a good option. But you may want to look into some other energy saving measures while you're at it.

tl;dr: This heater would cost roughly 22.1 cents/kWh to operate, making it more expensive than electric heat for most people."


Although the above statement may be true if heating a home or even a room, the people on this forum, I think, are interested in heating a van. When costs were calculated comparing candle heat to electric heat one must include the cost of the heater as you did the cost of shipping the candles.
I would re-calculate the above costs using one candle and buying the candles at a Dollar Store or similar.


caseyc said:
Nice math work post there! I'd be paranoid a candle might get knocked over and start a fire. I don't even use candles at home so I doubt I would use it in a vehicle. In any case, it would make an interesting experiment. Let us know how it goes if anyone tries it.

Caseyc do you think a candle is more dangerous than a Big Buddy or a Little Buddy butane heater in a van?
 
A candle in a van is more dangerous than the buddy propane heaters.


That does not mean it can not be done safely.
 
How is a tea candle more dangerous?
 
One thing I know for sure (probably learned in Canadian kindergarten) is that at -42 (its where celcius and farenheit are the same and I even know why...because its just too freakin' cold to do the math *laugh*) I'm going looking for my candles and pair of cans... keep you alive in a vehicle in a storm. One can for candle which makes a lot of heat in a small space, other to make snow into water and water warm to fuel your body.

I've never read a "keep it in your trunk survival checklist" that included a Mr. Buddy but every fall the ones in the paper, on the news, in your power bill... recommend cans and candles. Absolutely no offence to the lovely little Mr. Buddy!

More than once in stick & bricks and in bigger RVs I have had to light a fire under a LP tank to get the stuff to gasify to run the furnace.

This is an interesting conversation, so lets keep it friendly, I too loved the math (education junkie!)

Did you know that one standard charcoal briquette produces 27 degrees of heat....making a small pile of 12 of them able to produce 350 degrees of heat and in an effeceint outdoor stove can give you that 350 degrees for about 3 1/2 hours. I have a grill/stove that is meant for cooking but if I was ever stormstayed I'd likely whip up a tarpatecture tipi type thing on one side of the van and take 'er inside the tipi.

For a sustainable cheap heat...I'm voting electric...solar is very effecient even in the cold as long as you keep your batteries warmish. Its like if I only get to chose between a battery blanket or a block heater to make sure my vehicle starts at that -42...battery blanket.
 
I agree hippiechick, It is math work although as stated in Post 23 it is somewhat skewed.
 
@ sparky1 ...I must confess I haven't seen a very recent M.E.N. as I really can't afford them anymore. Can I borrow yours when you have read 'em? :angel:

@ Mac J ... The math for the given example was spot on. Your example changed the parameters making your math spot on for your example too. *smile*

@ everyone who doesn't like open flame in their space...your space, your rules my friends!

And...we are moving on to more ideas of how to harness every single bit of heat we can for the least possible bucks. Personally I would love to hear more about non-fossil fuel heat in a vehicle. I am chemically hypersensitive and if I used any propane heater in my van I would wake up dead...no wait...thats oxymoronic...

Does this great thread have to die the first week of the new forums because we can't get past math class or who does or doesn't like candles? Do you realize how much work is going on right now to bring every bit of stuff from the old site to this one because there are sooo many threads with a great tidbit that needs to be preserved but the thread died quickly because people walked away rather than listen to a minor point get rehashed over and over?? Don't make me use my new mod muscles...please!...they are small and I am just learning and trying to help...all the mods are currently overworked so no more excessive quote and comeback litter it starts to look like spam. As yet this thread has no tidbits that must be preserved even though it has some very good information...if it dies it gets dumped!

Ow...man...I bumped my humerus getting off the soapbox...
 
I have a paranoia against an open flame. I just won't do it. But I have successfully used a Little Buddy heater during the middle of the night on a number of occasions. When I say "successfully", I mean that I was warm and didn't die from CO poisoning. Then again, I do keep not 1, not 2, but 3 separate CO detectors inside the van at different positions and at different height levels. When I say I'm paranoid...I am paranoid! Haha.
 
I don't think that is paranoid, caseyc, just cautious. CO can build up in a small space like a van much faster than it would in a house (or even a room), so I wouldn't call multiple detectors paranoid.
 
hippiechk said:
@ sparky1 ...I must confess I haven't seen a very recent M.E.N. as I really can't afford them anymore. Can I borrow yours when you have read 'em? :angel:

The answer to that particular problem is to stop frequently at Barnes and Nobles as you pass them in your travels and spend an afternoon reading the magazines for free.

BTW, it's -40, not -42, where the Celsius and Fahrenheit scales converge.

Finally, if you DO go this candle-heater route, (and I'm neither fer it nor agin it) It would probably be a lot cheaper to buy bulk wax and wicks and make your own candles vs buying them ready made.

Regards
John
 
We used to heat with kerosine heaters alot. They burn clean if you take care of them. You can burn low odor mineral spirits in kerosine heaters/stoves.

Mile's Wick Shop has some of the best info and a fantastic source for parts. It tells you all kinds of kerosine lamp and heater info. You may want to read it extensively even if you think you know all about kerosine heaters or are biased against them because they are "dangerous" and/or "dirty".
http://www.milesstair.com/
http://www.milesstair.com/burning_at_night.html
http://www.stpaulmercantile.com/index.php?ref=Miles&action=store&page=KeroseneStovesAndOven you can buy here or search Amazon with the info you get off the Wick Shop site

BTW, we have found that K-1 kerosine pumps are not as plentiful in NM as they are in the Southern Appalachians. Otherwise we would have kerosine space heaters instead of electric ones. We will get rid of the electric space heaters when we get the lp fireplace insert installed (our Christmas present to ourselves).
 
hippiechk;
sure you can read my Mother Earth News magazines.they also sell the entire set on dvd's,
i'm in southern virginia,Near Appomattox,(Civil war ended there) your ever near me---come on-park free gravel parking spot,water & 15 amp close by.
sparky1.
 
Caseyc, just because you admit to being paranoid, doesn't mean you're not being followed. :)
 
@ compassrose ... that does sound lovely and cozy! I had an electric I really enjoyed but then our electric rates where I lived in Canada are cheap compared to most here. I never topped $100 a month with electric heat in winter and 3 a/c units in the summer. I did have a super-effecient and heavily hepa filtered natural gas furnace but if I ran it the electric would go down to $50 and the gas was $43 on a budget plan that they always owed me a bunch at settle up time...the filters eat up some bucks though so I usually stuck to the electric. Post a pic when its in??

@ sparky1 ... thanks, eventually I will make it up that way again! Maybe next fall I will do a colour run through the sugarbush maples in Ontario & Quebec then head south towards your area. Once those particular reds are in your soul... I know I can get digital editions but I like paper mags...and books and bless signman on this site because he brought me a paper map of this silly little town I'm staying in and have been getting lost in for years. Now I get it!!

@ Mac J ... stealing my lines... I , as a mod, am actually following all of you!!! *smile*

Anyone else have a 12V electric blanket? I have one I tried in the house to make sure it worked but haven't used yet. This one is only 35-40 watts and it gets fairly warm...it has a 30 or 45 minute timer so it can't bake you. I got it more for travel as I don't like to run the heat all the time I find it so drying and it is a bit small but when I curled up a bit under it it toasted all of me well enough. I got it through Amazon so I will drop a link but I wouldn't say I actually recommend it yet...haven't tried it for real.

http://www.amazon.com/Innovations-2...84712134&sr=8-7&keywords=12v+electric+blanket
 
That's the same one I bought but (Blue)20013 it works great -love the fact has a timer so as to not run the Hotel battery down. distributed by a company in Fairfax,Va.. (yep chinese) oh well.
sparky1.
 
[quote
@ Mac J ... stealing my lines... I , as a mod, am actually following all of you!!! *smile*
[/quote]

as long as we're first!
 
I had to stop using Kerosene to heat my camper due to the ever rising cost of the fuel. 3 yrs ago when I started living in the camper full time (this time) the price on the container of kerosene was only $11 then quickly went to $15 now it is over $28 for the same sized container!

Recently I found out that kerosene is also jet fuel, so you can get it for about $1.50 gallon here, so lots cheaper.
Propane is the least costly fuel so my little propane heater in an enclosed very safe converted old kerosen heater cabinet, is the main source of heat until it gets way to cold, around -20 or so with a wind, then bust out the Big Buddy heater.
 
@ Wild_E

Please be very careful with that jet fuel...it contains nasty additives like toluene/benzene/napthlene and the like. Kerosene can be used to fuel a jet but jet fuel is not meant to be used for anything but jets...and fast cars *smile*.

You could check that out here:

http://www.ehow.com/list_7146128_differences-between-kerosene-jet-fuel.html

After they dropped lead from our gas I owned a Rover racing engine car, a TC2000, and had to buy AvGas (jet fuel) for it, it was a dog on gasoline without lead. I had to sell my lovely little rocket because just fueling it up was making me pass out....guys at the airport got sick of pickin' me up off the tarmack.
 
Thanks, I do not use kero anymore though still have a nice heater sitting here unused and taking up space.

Now I use the Veggie Oil or Propane
 

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