Cheap Heating?

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This is going to put out a miniscule amount of heat. Candles are probably one of the most expensive energy sources. Here is one comment:
"This will radiate heat at about the heat output of a candle (80W according to wikipedia [1]); so you'd need 6 to make as much heat as a 480W electric heater. But this is r/frugal, so let's take a look at the costs:

From wikipedia a candle has 80W of heat output. [1]

From this seller [2] you can get tea candles with 4 hours output for $0.0708 each ($0.0875 with shipping).

So the total kWh per candle is 80W * 4hr / 1000 = 0.32 kWh

For a cost per kWh of heat of: $0.0708 / 0.32 kWh = $0.221/kWh ($0.273 with shipping)

Compare this to an electric heater. 100% of the electricity is converted to heat, so you want to look at your marginal price per kWh (how much you pay at the highest tier you're paying for electricity at).

[3] has the average electricity price by state -- only in Hawaii (at $0.363/kWh) is the candle heater frugal on the average. On the other hand, if your electric bill pushes you into higher electricity tiers in the winter, and you're paying more than 22.1 cents per kWh (or 27.3 cents with shipping), then this may be a good option. But you may want to look into some other energy saving measures while you're at it.

tl;dr: This heater would cost roughly 22.1 cents/kWh to operate, making it more expensive than electric heat for most people."
 
CompassRose

Great link for the heat grabber. It looks easy but I get to scared and confused with new things like that. I do have all the tools to do it though.
If I get up the courage to try it, I will post it.

Rod, there is a possible better flower pot link, http://www.axebros.com/how-to-make-the-candle-power-space-heater/
I am going to do this one. As always, warnings will come in about open flames, and thats good. I am lucky to have a sink in my camper and can not think of any reason a flame flower pot will ignite anything else.

Think this design will put out more heat using the same candlepower?
 
Nice math work post there! I'd be paranoid a candle might get knocked over and start a fire. I don't even use candles at home so I doubt I would use it in a vehicle. In any case, it would make an interesting experiment. Let us know how it goes if anyone tries it.
 
I just went thru and looked at the first link http://www.naturalcuresnotmedicine.com/2...s-day.html

I think the metal pan to hold the candle is a better option than the bricks in the axebro. example. Filling the metal pan with sand would also collect heat I would think.

Past tense, math really scares me. Math and spiders. Don't know where the smileys went but consider a grinny here.
 
Most smilies can just be typed...but if you hit new reply instead of using the quick post you get the clickable smilies

::D:p:):huh::s:blush:

Code:
:D:P:):huh::s:blush:
 
This is the version (modified for the bus of course) we will build when we get settled in TX in a couple of years.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/do-it-yourself-solar-space-heater-zmaz82ndzgoe.aspx
[/quote]

Had this idea back in the early 70's living in Huntsville. My idea was to use black visqueen on a lite wood frame hung out the window. Obviously the visqueen probably would last one season. But its cheap to replace. It would be possible to make a "U" shape, in cross section, to use a small table fan in the window to pull warmed air into the room.

I never got around to it what with working and engineering classes though. It was during the oil embargo and I was looking for a cheap heating solution.
 
I only saw the video but the theory seems ok.
It's just if you don't want to use up battery power for some reason.
You're not really relying on the heat of the candle itself. The combined heat of the candles will make the inner pot really hot. (same principle applies with gas lantern glass) But the second pot allows the inner pot to retain its heat and warm the air going up through the sides of the larger pot to the small opening at the top.
Airflow wise, it makes sense. But yeah, be sure to place this somewhere where you cannot topple it.

The only drawback I can see is if you are ventilating air from the outside, the cold air will fight with the warm air. Not ventilating will be dangerous as you might run out of oxygen inside a closed vehicle.

Weight-wise, it does look heavy.
 
We used to build "heat grabbers" out of the tubing panels from the back of old fridges...in the '70/80s. I'm curious though as to why you would use 32+ year old ideas for a new build when there are so many advances and the costs have plummeted on newer technology?

But then consider this source...I live in a full window van (always have) and rarely cover my (dark privacy tinted) windows because I love the light and visibility. It has to be sub-freezing before I toss up the reflectix shields *smile*.
 
ooogh... you're tough in the cold! Uncovered windows at freezing! I'll be a popsickle. :)
 
hippiechk said:
We used to build "heat grabbers" out of the tubing panels from the back of old fridges...in the '70/80s. I'm curious though as to why you would use 32+ year old ideas for a new build when there are so many advances and the costs have plummeted on newer technology?

We are using "old" passive solar technology because #1 we are poor and so called "new" technology or rather old tech in new shiny packaging is out of our price range. #2 Simple is easier and cheaper to maintain.#3 The DIY heat grabber will be a secondary heater. #4 we can build it ourselves and since we build it ourselves, we can repair it ourselves. It's why our main heat source of heat is an old fashioned (or new if you are only familiar with Aqua-hot systems) hydronic heat system that we built ourselves by recyling a few old main components combined with a few new parts.

Why should I buy a commercially build one for big bucks when I can build one for a heck of a lot less. Why doesn't everyone on this forum either buy a commercially converted/built Class B (or Class A, C or travel trailer)? When it comes to solar and most heat systems, it's based on very old (sometimes primative) technology. Just because the technology is old doesn't mean it's bad or inefficent.


Clear bubble wrap also works to insulate single pane glass while still letting light in. Adds a bit of privacy too. Spray glass with fine mist of water and stick smooth side of bubblewrap to glass. Upside is you can mix Reflectix and bubblewrap on your windows to insulate yet not make the interiors so dark like if you only used Reflectix. DollarTree carries small rolls of bubblewrap for..... $1.
 
@compassrose

Are you coming to RTR? I'm just wondering because I have a book put out by M.E.N. in 1974 that I still love, its called "The Book of Homemade Power" and has amazing ideas. I meant no offence! I also live well below the established poverty line but I prefer to think of it as broke...it gives me hope *smile*.

@wanderingrain

The worst part is scraping off the interior frost onto a pan so I can toss the moisture outside *laugh*!
 
I reckon we all mostly live below the "poverty line". Sometimes I don't care.
Scraping frost from the interior!!! That just sends chills down my body even reading it... :D
 
As with burning any fuel in an enclosed space and not direct venting, you will be breathing the by products of the combustion process. I think that burning wax/paraffin would be a dirty heat. All of the energy of the burning candle is within the area regardless of any methods to capture the heat with flower pots metal plates etc. There will be heat in those objects but in the end its still in the air and lost at a rate that is determined by the r value of the container. If you heat an oven and shut it off, them open the door you will notice a lot of heat in the surrounding area. If you leave the door closed, the heat will still be within the same area but you wont notice it as much. It will be dispersed within the same area but wont be as noticeable.
But, anyway my main concern would be breathing the exhaust of burning wax. Someone else on here mentioned a hurricane (?) stove type set up? Now thats frugal. obviously it would have to be built to be safe and never hot to the touch and with a double wall exhaust pipe as used in home chimney chases. The fumes would go out, the twigs and small wood pieces would be free. Now that's doing it dirt cheap.
 
The "right vehicle" could benefit from a smaller more portable version of todays outdoor wood burner. It likely would not be a 24/7 heat source unless one is parked somewhere where it would not affect anyone negatively.

I say "right vehicle" because some will have a good location or position to mount such a device, while most may not.

For simple discussion, lets just imagine a 6-8" diameter steel tube mounted vertically on the back of your vehicle... perhaps as simple as slid into your trailer hitch receiver tube. This tube has a cap that narrows like the tin mans hat down to perhaps only 2-3", where a 2-3" flexible tube exits vertically.

Inside the tube is an insulated layer wall, a firebox and a simple coil of tubing that wraps around and over that "firebox". Antifreeze is used in the tube and circulated to a heat exchanger inside the vehicle. The "burner" in hostile use environments would probably be clean burning plain old charcoal. The real wood type seems to last a long time.

In less hostile environments, wood or wood pellets could be used (when smoke may be less of a problem). With some engineering skills, it is possible to make such a tube to be fully insulated so that its only warm to the touch (except for the stack exit). It could also be made to "damper down" to make the fuel last longer, and in fact could also be designed to allow automated "stoking" by dropping in a new charcoal biscuit when necessary.

The fumes are outside, the dirt is outside, but the heat can be carried inside. Nothing stops a person from developing one that also could run on propane when wood or charcoal is not available.

Where to mount. Like I said, some vehicles could do this very well... like a school bus or narrow hooded truck. Rather than people thinking the air cleaner hanging on the side is actually an air cleaner,.... it could be a stealth outdoor furnace !
 
Hi Grummy, Been thinking along these lines also, when I get my stepvan I'll look you up. The quality of design and workmanship on your step is incredible, I watch for your updates at grumliner most everyday. Duane
 
I use this until the temps drop to just above freezing.
http://wildernessreturn.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/doomsday-veggie-lamps/

veglamps-116b.jpg


veglamps-104b.jpg


veglamps-132b.jpg


The bottom shows the first type that I had, there is now a more complicated system, that is safer with a vent out. Use good quality Veg oil only for less to no smoke and fumes.
 
hippiechk said:
@compassrose
Are you coming to RTR? I'm just wondering because I have a book put out by M.E.N. in 1974 that I still love, its called "The Book of Homemade Power" and has amazing ideas. I meant no offence! I also live well below the established poverty line but I prefer to think of it as broke...it gives me hope *smile*.

We are po'. But hopefully we will change that over the next five years. Nothing new. I don't know what RTR is and probably not if it is a gathering that requires travel. I am a retail drone at a big orange box lumber/hardware store which requires that I stick around. Also every extra penny we have is currently being sunk into completing the bus so that we can then save every extra penny to pay for our move to east TX as well as support us in a commercial rv park (a month or two) while I get yet another job and buy a piece of land (pay cash) to lower our monthly expenses. And start another shoestring business that will hopefully allow me to "retire" from working for others in a couple of years, generating enough $$ to allow us to take off in the bus during the two slow parts of the year. We got a plan, with dates, and are willing to make the sacrifices needed now to achieve our goals.

I have om the '70's and '80's have much better DIY info than the newer issues.


compassrose said:
I have om the '70's and '80's have much better DIY info than the newer issues.
Okay, I dislike editing long posts on my tablet. I can never get the stupid thing all the way to the bottom of the long post. I need to get a cheapy Cowboom.com laptop to replace my ancient desktop.

What I meant to post was...

I have MEM on CDs from 2008 back to the first issue. I think the issues from the '70's and '80's have much better DIY info than the newer issues. Newer issues are more geared to BUY, BUY, BUY. They are getting better about it but still a bit consumer mad.
 
@ compassrose

M.E.N. sure did become a glossy yuppie rag compared to the lovely pulpy first generation real D.I.Y. stuff. I was soooo lucky to have parents with some insight and I got a subscription to it the first year it came out for Christmas. Nothing left of them as we wore them out by the time me and my folks were done....bro and sis not so much back then but sis can fix stuff now! Bro has a good tan *laugh*.

And yes, RTR is a gathering in Arizona in January. I guess you could call it the primary gathering for this particular site but since I met up with signman for real last week that gets my vote for best gathering so far!

Back to cheap heat...best quality bedding you can find kept clean and dry is the best sleeping option IMHO. Its how I manage to sleep real cozy without an actual heat source. I also keep my next days clothes in a mesh bag under the covers near me which makes getting up more fun *smile*. One of my best blankets was $1 at the local thrift shop, I recognise it as a standard hospital issue and it never feels clammy and is very warm for cotton.
 

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