Caulk, aluminum tape, tar, seam Mess! Suggestions?

[Jack Grit]

I hope the photos are able to be enlarged. If not, this post may be useless.
Here goes: Two areas in question. 1) The photo of the aluminum with the red circle around is the end of the "house" roof, reaching 4" or so over the fiberglass cab. It is original. Looks like someone either tried to fix a leak or tried some preventative work. The tar is still gooey. What sort of adhesive or product should be used under the exposed area? I plan on sealing the area with Eternabond after I deal with the first step.  2) The encircled white area is aluminum tape with some sort of thin cloth/paper over it. If I remove any more of it, I will be getting too close to the solar panel to get things done right. The panel would be extremely hard to remove. I may be able to get under the panel enough to simply put Eternabond over the area after a through cleaning. The question is whether I should seal it first and if so, in what manner. I think that's enough info to kick this off. 1987 Toyota 22re. Looking forward to any suggestions. Thanks.   

 

[rvwandering]

I'm sure that you don't want to hear this but, in my opinion, the only way to fix the mess is to scrape off all of the old caulk and tar, clean the fiberglass and aluminum, screw down the aluminum to make it tight to the roof again, and recaulk. Anything that you put over what is on there now will only be a patch that may not work and there's a good chance you'll be redoing it very soon.

You may have damage to the framing from old leaks which could be the reason for the gap between the aluminum and the fiberglass in the second photo. Fixing that will involve removing part of the interior ceiling.

 

[Almost There]

Oh Boy!

I have to agree with T&K, the only way to properly fix that so that you  have a watertight roof is to get it right back down to original roofing. Remove the solar panels so that you can get to it all.

Then after that's finished, drop interior ceiling panels and start replacing all the damaged wood and insulation.

Big job for sure but the only way to ensure that you have an exterior that is water tight.

 

[highdesertranger]

yep no easy fix there. strip it down and fix it right or kiss it goodbye. while you are at it you need to fix the way those panels are mounted. highdesertranger

 

[Jack Grit]

"You may have damage to the framing from old leaks". ...and I thought I would have this done in 3 weaks. Yikes. 

Certainly hope that's not the case. It's a pretty rare model and I cannot find any sort of manual. 
It's amazing that there does not appear to be any damage to any of the interior walls except a tiny bit of slightly "buckled" wallpaper.

BTW, the aluminum over the fiberglass is slightly lower than the roof.

"Remove the solar panels so that you can get to it all."

Pretty strange that a guy who wrote a book on solar installed the panels.

..."fix it right or kiss it goodbye. while you are at it you need to fix the way those panels are mounted"
 By "kiss it goodbye"  you mean?

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it. Other opinions more than welcome.

J Grit

 

[bullfrog]

My understanding is that the solar panels can be damaged by heat build up and need an air space under them. Also that pipe strapping is putting pressure on the corner where Z brackets would hold the frame if I'm seeing that correctly. It is never easy to seal two materials that expand and contract with hot and cold so differently and trying to keep it in place with screws through aluminum without larger holes that allow for expansion of the metal will only warp the metal making it harder to seal. Bubbling wall paper usually indicates water damage underneath and has many times been mentioned on this forum as something a buyer should run from. This isn't going to be an easy or small repair in my opinion. More pictures and updates will be needed to help make sure you fix this once and forever.

 

[Jack Grit]

There are seven solar panels on this rig and all of them have air flow underneath on at least one side except one (see photo). I have no idea why one would be flush with the roof but I've seen stranger things. As for the wallpaper, all the walls seemed firm and I did not smell anything (I am allergic to mold). I was under the understanding that all old rigs leak once in a while and by the time you have one, some damage may have already started. Based on the comments, it looks as though I underestimated what I saw. Seller was adamant that there were no leaks and from the little I know of him, he seems like an honest guy. Maybe he was not aware of the leak as he only had the rig for five years or so. In any case it's caveat emptor. I can post additional photos. If you care to let me know which areas and/or angles may be helpful, I'd be happy to post. Your comment on the screws makes a lot of sense. I plan to remove them. BTW, the dust on the panels is from all the fires we are having here. I need to wipe them down asap. Panels on far left are on a buddies house. Thanks for replying.

 

[bullfrog]

There are several different types of roofs on RV's. But almost all need to be sealed eventually. Most people mount solar panels so they can be removed on a rack or with Z type brackets. The more holes you put in the roof the more chance you have of getting a leak. As you are finding out you need to mount them so that you can access the entire roof. Perminently mounted panels are not a good idea in my opinion. Trying to figure out the situation without being there to take it all in makes it difficult to make good suggestions. I would go slow and get several opinions before making repairs or doing anything drastic.

 

[Jack Grit]

  Most people mount solar panels so they can be removed on a rack or with Z type brackets.  The more holes you put in the roof the more chance you have of getting a leak.  Perminently mounted panels are not a good idea in my opinion.  Trying to figure out the situation without being there to take it all in makes it difficult to make good suggestions.  I would go slow and get several opinions before making repairs or doing anything drastic.

Thanks for the reply. My plan is to remove the panel and inspect and repair the entire seam. I will then mount the panel correctly. Seems obvious for air flow and situations like the one I have. After that I will remove an interior ceiling panel to understand what I am dealing with. As for getting other opinions, I have gotten a couple where I reside. Both said they would fix the roof and and dry rot will cease. Neither of them thought there was any severe rot. I will find out.

 

[rvwandering]

Sorry about scaring you with the water damage caution. You may not need to remove any of the interior ceiling. When you screw the aluminum back down if it grabs and holds you may be able to leave it as is. Push on the roof, the interior ceiling, and interior walls. If they flex a lot you'll probably want to rip some stuff out and rebuild it. If you don't get a lot of flexing the damage may be minimal. If the leak was caught early and fixed it will have dried out and not caused much damage. Fingers crossed for you.

 

[highdesertranger]

all those panels need to be remounted. that guy wrote a book on solar install? I guess that where the saying "don't believe everything you read" came from. kiss it goodbye means it's doesn't have a long life. most of the time it's easier to do water damage repair from the outside. highdesertranger

 

[Jack Grit]

When you screw the aluminum back down if it grabs and holds you may be able to leave it as is.   If you don't get a lot of flexing the damage may be minimal. If the leak was caught early and fixed it will have dried out and not caused much damage. Fingers crossed for you.

I gotta get all that gunk out of there. I tried denatured alcohol and it didn't do much. I may try a heat gun and shlop it out. One of the screws (out of 16 or so) on the side panel isn't grabbing well. I tried a longer screw, with same threads, and it took just fine. I think the guy caught the leak b4 it caused much damage (fingers crossed on that one). Very minimal flex in a 1X1' area (interior). I may have dodged a bullet. Hopefully I will find an expert in the near future to take a peak at it. When I patch it, it should be like an Airstream seem ( I tend to go overboard ). I'll keep the thread updated. Thanks again.

 

[Jack Grit]

all those panels need to be remounted.  that guy wrote a book on solar install?  I guess that where the saying "don't believe everything you read" came from.

I will re-mount that one panel for now. When time permits I will work on the others. I think he wrote the book after learning through his mistakes, as it states one should keep the panels away from the roof.

 

[bullfrog]

Try some WD40 on a rag (micro fiber towels work well for me) in a test area.

 

[Jack Grit]

My understanding is that the solar panels can be damaged by heat build up and need an air space under them.  Also that pipe strapping is putting pressure on the corner where Z brackets would hold the frame if I'm seeing that correctly.  It is never easy to seal two materials that expand and contract with hot and cold so differently and trying to keep it in place with screws through aluminum without larger holes that allow for expansion of the metal will only warp the metal making it harder to seal.  Bubbling wall paper usually indicates water damage underneath and has many times been mentioned on this forum as something a buyer should run from.  This isn't going to be an easy or small repair in my opinion.  More pictures and updates will be needed to help make sure you fix this once and forever.

Removed the solar panel today. Also removed the pipe strapping and most of the old caulk, etc. I'm re-thinking this whole thing. The tar job appears to have been done with great care. It sits at an angle and water generally doesn't travel uphill. He installed a multitude of screws and the tar is still "gooey". It has been in this condition for a minimum of six years. One of the screws was starting to back out so that is concerning. I wonder if it isn't best to tighten the screws a bit more, remove the excess tar and put 4" Eternabond over the seem. Wondering why aluminum directly to fiberglass is better than same with a little tar in between  See pic's if you have the spare time. Before and after work done today. Thanks.

 

[Jack Grit]

Sorry about scaring you with the water damage caution. You may not need to remove any of the interior ceiling. When you screw the aluminum back down if it grabs and holds you may be able to leave it as is.  Push on the roof, the interior ceiling, and interior walls. If they flex a lot you'll probably want to rip some stuff out and rebuild it. If you don't get a lot of flexing the damage may be minimal. If the leak was caught early and fixed it will have dried out and not caused much damage. Fingers crossed for you

It seems the unusual patch worked as the ceiling is hard to the push and the screws bite well. There is a very slight give in a small portion (12" X 12" or so) of the wall near leak. Quite a bit less concerned although I have a long way to go with repair.

 

[Jack Grit]

Try some WD40 on a rag (micro fiber towels work well for me) in a test area.

BTW, the WD worked like a charm. Thanks for suggestion.

 

[bullfrog]

From what I can tell in the pictures looks like comercial roofing with a tar base. That stuff is really heavy and a big job to deal with usually requiring heat. It is sort of a perminent one time fix because it would be so difficult to remove and tear up the subsurface while doing it. It was really the wrong way to try to use this type of materal on something that other than a building with a 3/4" plywood base or thicker in my opinion especially around solar panels that might need to be removed. I imagine the previous owner was tired of trying to patch up the patch. The only perminent fix is to remove everything and repair the orginal roof which would probably cost 10 times what it is worth. Maybe you can temporarly patch it, good luck!

 

[rvwandering]

It's a little hard to tell what all is going on from the pictures but I think you are on the right track. Remove all of the caulking, patches, tape, etc, that come off fairly easily. Remove all of the solar panels. Some of the wires look undersized to me so you may want to redo the wiring while you're at it. Clean the roof really well so you can see if there are any problem areas. Tighten all of the screws.

If you decide to use eternabond call the company and find out whether it will stick to tar. Follow the prep directions. We found that eternabond sticks very well to some surfaces but we could not get it to work on galvanized steel and some plastics.

Normally nothing will stick to silicone caulk but we tried Loctite RE-NEW which is advertised for use on old silicone caulk. We used it on a short run of old silicon on our motorhome. It's been on for almost a year and has held up great. We've also used 50 year guaranteed exterior household caulk on all of the other seams (our RV came very little exterior caulking - long story) and it's been great too - much better than the caulking that was factory applied on the seams of other RVs that we've owned.

 

[bullfrog]

That tar is really good at sealing especially the foil backed stuff but really heavy and if installed properly it would bond to the surface it was applied to. That doesn't appear to be the case in the photo that showed a large piece that you were able to pull up so water could get under it. On a moving vehicle wind is more a factor than gravity. If there is a place water can get in it will and water eventually rots most wood used in RV's. It is probably worth it to remove any thing you have to to find where the water is coming in and stop the damage.