Cargo Van vs. Prius

[Bster13]

Good observation. 

The CVT transmission in the Prius is a far more spendy issue than the battery when it fails.  Yes, the CVT trannys are also starting to fail...

At what mileage are battery packs and transmissions starting to fail?  I thought Suanne was north of 200k and on all original?

 

[highdesertranger]

I couldn't answer that. what I observed was after market companies were stating to manufacture and sell the batteries. they wouldn't do this unless there was a demand. highdesertranger

 

[WriterMs]

Brent and Suanne are the Prius travelers I know about. I can't think of anyone who tries to do real stealth in one. I would not ever need real stealth as my only stays in cities are while traveling to a new destination and I use Walmart, Cracker Barrel or such for those single night stays.

If I was going to be in a vehicle as small as a Prius, I have thought that I'd buy one of those super easy-up Coleman tents. One that is very large and tall enough to stand up in is only about $150-$200. I'd bundle the tent case, a really comfy outdoor chair and one of those tables with a roll-out top on a cargo roof carrier or hitch haul.

With those things, I could set up the tent and "live in" that with my chair and a table. I could sleep in the Prius for the AC in hot, humid weather (I hate that weather and try to travel waaaay around it).

Just my random thoughts on what I might do to make a Prius livable fulltime.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just listing out some Pros and Cons and thinking out loud.  If you have additional points to consider, I'd love to hear them!
...
If I've forgotten any relevant categories or information, bring it on! Thanks!

I traveled for 5 years with a beagle living out of a Subaru Forester.  The one thing that convinced me to get something bigger (I went with an 8' pickup camper) was a muddy dog.  No place to clean up the dog in the Subaru.

-- Spiff

 

[Oberneldon]

Re: Prius Hybrid Battery

The following is taken from the web

"The hybrid component warranty covers the hybrid battery, battery control module, hybrid control module and inverter with converter. In most states the hybrid warranty is eight years/100,000 miles, but states that have adopted California’s Emission Control Warranty have a longer warranty. These states include California, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Vermont, Connecticut, Maine, New Mexico and Rhode Island."

I live in one of the New England states that has the hybrid battery that is longer to 150k miles.

Brent

 

[idn88]

The Hybrid batteries have turned out to be lasting far longer than anyone originally thought. Consumer reports tested a 10 year old Prius battery and found it was almost as efficient and powerful as when new. Many documented cases of 300K+ prius's on the road with the original battery. A new battery is about 2500 installed, which when you consider the cost per average mile is still pretty low.

Having said that, I could never even dream of living in something as small as a Prius, and am in awe and admiration of those that are organized enough to do so.

 

[Bster13]

The difference between a Transit Connect and a minivan is that, at least in the USA, the Transit Connect is a new model (as in, very expensive) and the minivans have been around for 20 years or more. My first-choice vehicle would be a Grand Caravan or Grand Voyager. In a fantasy world where I have plenty of money, I'd pay as much for that as for a Transit Connect, but in the real world I can get a reliable and not-unsightly minivan for under $4000, likely under $3000. That's a lot of gas money versus either the Prius or the TC, and insurance (liability and uninsured motorist) will be quite a bit cheaper as well. The interiors of the two Grands I've owned before both ran 9' front to back, 4' across, and 4' high. Except for some other minivans, that's more than anything else that gets 17 mpg city, 24 highway, which is what I got. Parts are readily available and cheap. Repairs are not specialized. My ex got my last Grand Voyager when we split up, or I'd be on the road in it today.

Those are some compelling reasons for a decently used minivan, but did they ever sell then without windows in the back?  I know the transit connect does (smaller than a regular transit and similarly sized to a minivan), but like you said they are relatively new and perhaps harder to find a good deal on.  The reason I ask is when going stealth in an urban environment, I just feel like something with less windows will stealth a LOT better and look less out of place vs. a bunch of windows blacked out.

And I've been thinking about stealthing in the Prius in a city environment more.  The A/C is a bigger advantage to me than the MPG of a Prius.  I want to be comfortable and not suffer.  And from the feedback I've received, folks would not cycle their Prius A/C when stealthing in town as it might blow their cover.  So maybe you'd cycle the Prius A/C at a Walmart or a truck stop... well if you're parking there, you're boondocking, not stealthing, so why not whip out the Honda generator and run a window A/C unit then?

 

[Bster13]

I have seen minivans with no windows. All or most of them were Chevy Astros or their GMC twin. I feel that windowless vans do not look as inconspicuous in residential areas or retail lots as ordinary passenger vehicles. They look too industrial. Stealth is blending in with my environment, which is specific to both the vehicle and the environment. I have used improvised curtains in cities and that or nothing in natural places. That works for me. That said, I'll admit I've never paid a lot of attention to stealth. I don't stay more than a night or two in one urban place, and most of the places I stay don't mind. The worst that's happened to me is being asked to move along. I assume any law enforcement person knows which vehicles are occupied anyhow, if he or she cares, by things like fogged-up windows or other clues.

There are reasons for not bringing out a generator. In order to be safe, it can't be too close to your vehicle. Putting it a safe distance away (like 50 feet) makes you conspicuous, takes up a lot of space in a crowded place, and increases the odds of your generator being stolen. Also, there's an etiquette to Walmart/truck stop/rest area camping that's based on not setting up they way we would in campgrounds. We're not paying for the lot, and we need to not seem as if we live there.

Aww crud, you're correct.  No gennie at Walmart, best bet would be a truck stop then to use one I'd think.  I was thinking of having a shelf off the rear hitch to lock down the gennie if I wanted to run one, no bueno?

 

[BigT]

The difference between a Transit Connect and a minivan is that, at least in the USA, the Transit Connect is a new model (as in, very expensive) and the minivans have been around for 20 years or more. My first-choice vehicle would be a Grand Caravan or Grand Voyager. In a fantasy world where I have plenty of money, I'd pay as much for that as for a Transit Connect, but in the real world I can get a reliable and not-unsightly minivan for under $4000, likely under $3000. That's a lot of gas money versus either the Prius or the TC, and insurance (liability and uninsured motorist) will be quite a bit cheaper as well. The interiors of the two Grands I've owned before both ran 9' front to back, 4' across, and 4' high. Except for some other minivans, that's more than anything else that gets 17 mpg city, 24 highway, which is what I got. Parts are readily available and cheap. Repairs are not specialized. My ex got my last Grand Voyager when we split up, or I'd be on the road in it today.

Yeah, I hear yah on the cost, but I didn't mind spending $16K to get something newer with a high-top, excellent fuel economy, and low miles.
But that's just me...  Everyone has their own priorities.  

Wait...  You had 9 feet of cargo area in your Grand Caravan??  How did you get that?  Or are you including the area the front seats sit in?
My girlfriend and I used to rent a Grand Caravan when we'd go to the Grass Valley Bluegrass festival every year for camping in (I hate tents), and it didn't have anywhere near that much cargo room.  I would have had to remove the front seats to get 9'.  

I'm not sure of the exact interior dimension in my TC and it's too darn cold outside right now for me to go measure them, but I do know that I'm 6'4" tall, and I can sit, bolt-upright, on my bed, which is 17" tall, and not hit my head on the ceiling.  And while my insurance costs are likely higher than on an older GC or GV, my fuel economy is low 20's in the city and 27mpg on the highway.  Parts are also readily available, though I am having some trouble finding a paper shop manual for it.  :dodgy:

I'm not trying to sway your opinion.  I'm just saying I was glad to pay more to get the things that were important to me.

 

[myke]

Those are some compelling reasons for a decently used minivan, but did they ever sell then without windows in the back?  I know the transit connect does (smaller than a regular transit and similarly sized to a minivan), but like you said they are relatively new and perhaps harder to find a good deal on.  The reason I ask is when going stealth in an urban environment, I just feel like something with less windows will stealth a LOT better and look less out of place vs. a bunch of windows blacked out.

But the Prius has windows. So doesn't your logic apply to that as well? You'll be sleeping right up by the windows and will be easily visible unless you cover them up...

And I've been thinking about stealthing in the Prius in a city environment more.  The A/C is a bigger advantage to me than the MPG of a Prius.  I want to be comfortable and not suffer.  And from the feedback I've received, folks would not cycle their Prius A/C when stealthing in town as it might blow their cover.  So maybe you'd cycle the Prius A/C at a Walmart or a truck stop... well if you're parking there, you're boondocking, not stealthing, so why not whip out the Honda generator and run a window A/C unit then?

You're going to fit a generator in the Prius? How? At the expense of not fitting something else?

I'm not sure of the exact interior dimension in my TC and it's too darn cold outside right now for me to go measure them, but I do know that I'm 6'4" tall, and I can sit, bolt-upright, on my bed, which is 17" tall, and not hit my head on the ceiling.  And while my insurance costs are likely higher than on an older GC or GV, my fuel economy is low 20's in the city and 27mpg on the highway.  Parts are also readily available, though I am having some trouble finding a paper shop manual for it.  :dodgy:

The difference between the TC and a regular passenger minivan is the TC has more headroom, and the mini has a longer interior space. It's a trade off either way, and I think they even out in the end as far as the space is concerned.

 

[Bster13]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]But the Prius has windows. So doesn't your logic apply to that as well? You'll be sleeping right up by the windows and will be easily visible unless you cover them up...[/font]

Right... thus why a cargo van is something I feel would stealth more easily.

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]You're going to fit a generator in the Prius? How? At the expense of not fitting something else?[/font]

The unique thing about a Prius (any only a Prius vs. any other Hybrid I've read) is that it has a built in generator of sorts... the Atkinson cycle engine is meant to turn on/off many times vs. a regular engine and it's not left idling all night long.  From reading blogs of forum members here, when running the A/C the engine cycles on for ~5min every 1/2 hour to recharge the battery pack.

 

[myke]

The unique thing about a Prius (any only a Prius vs. any other Hybrid I've read) is that it has a built in generator of sorts... the Atkinson cycle engine is meant to turn on/off many times vs. a regular engine and it's not left idling all night long.  From reading blogs of forum members here, when running the A/C the engine cycles on for ~5min every 1/2 hour to recharge the battery pack.

Oh, I was talking about your reference the Honda generator...

 

[Bster13]

I would rock a honda gennie (or the like) if I had a van of some sorts. Plus solar, etc. etc. I assume over time.

 

[Suanne]

The unique thing about a Prius (any only a Prius vs. any other Hybrid I've read) is that it has a built in generator of sorts... the Atkinson cycle engine is meant to turn on/off many times vs. a regular engine and it's not left idling all night long.  From reading blogs of forum members here, when running the A/C the engine cycles on for ~5min every 1/2 hour to recharge the battery pack.

I've always assumed that other Toyota hybrids also had this ability to run the A/C like the Prius.  Is that not the case for their Camry or Highlander hybrids?   How about the Lexus hybrids, since they are connected to Toyota?  I'm always learning new stuff about these technologies, so I wouldn't be surprised if my assumption was wrong.

 

[Bster13]

Nope, you guys are most likely correct and I am wrong. I should have said all Toyota based hybrids... but I can't confirm that actually, just assuming (why would Toyota design all new systems for different cars in their lineup?). But I know the Prius is unique vs. the Honda Insight and Chevy Volt in how it works.

 

[idn88]

That's a very good question. If only the Prius can do that , it will be very limiting. The Prius itself is great, but those who need other choices will be affected by this answer.

I believe all of the Toyota family of hybrid vehicles since 2004 at least in theory can do this, since they all use the THS II (and now THS III) drive system - which is made by someone other than Toyota and they also license it to Nissan as well - for at least some of their hybrids, perhaps not all. In theory this system should work about the same irrelevant of vehicle.

Now having said that, Toyota very well could have implemented different firmware preventing it in different vehicles.  

The system is known as a "Full Hybrid" - meaning the car runs completely on battery power - and the only reason the engine is there is to charge the battery.  As such you turn the car on and run whatever you want.  The engine will kick in at such point that battery needs to be charged.  The engine doesn't need be running at all for anything so long as the battery is charged.

I believe the newer Honda vehicles are also full hybrid - so in theory they should be able to do the same thing.  

Of course, if this feature is important to you make sure to try it before you buy anything - since auto manufacturers make strange decisions across both vehicle platforms and even models of the same vehicle.

 

[Oberneldon]

Although I can't answer the question about other hybrid vehicles operating the same as a Prius, here is the diagram I made for my blog that highlights the Prius Electrical System in block diagram, with my mods for providing power for my travels.

I tie off the Prius 12v battery for my small inverter needs, but others have tied into the Prius high voltage battery for higher AC power needs.

The diagram does not explain the Prius function so here is the link to my more detailed post.

https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?b...sts;onClosedMenu=posts;postNum=1;src=postname

Brent

 

[Bster13]

Although I can't answer the question about other hybrid vehicles operating the same as a Prius, here is the diagram I made for my blog that highlights the Prius Electrical System in block diagram, with my mods for providing power for my travels.

I tie off the Prius 12v battery for my small inverter needs, but others have tied into the Prius high voltage battery for higher AC power needs.

The diagram does not explain the Prius function so here is the link to my more detailed post.

https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?b...sts;onClosedMenu=posts;postNum=1;src=postname

Brent

Looks like the link may be broken, this one worked better for me:
http://macaloney.blogspot.com/2015/11/powering-prius-campervan.html

 

[Oberneldon]

BSter13, thanks - I had checked it before posting - darn gremlins

 

[Tinabeane]

You may want to check out this guys blog and video, he traveled for a while living in his Prius he calls it Hotel Prius. He has some great ideas and is very organized.



https://chrissawey.wordpress.com/

Tina