California $15 an hour minimum wage passed

Van Living Forum

Help Support Van Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
darude said:
like i said before alot of business will go under or they will go automated so they won't have to pay the 15.00 minimum wage!!! though as a business owner if i'm paying someone minimum wage it's NOT my problem if they can't afford to live on what i pay them as minimum wage was never intended to be a salary for someone to live on and start a family.. now why don't some of the low wage workers go to college and get a degree or some kind of trade that they can use to make more money??

Umm that's exactly what minimum wage was meant to be.  Quote from FDR himself: "No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country"

and was quite specific on what living wages were:  "By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level, I mean the wages of a decent living"

I don't necessarily believe government should tell private companies what they have to pay, but I do think private companies should pay their fellow humans a decent wage.  But that system doesn't work because money makes some people horrible human beings.  You don't have to look back in history very far to see what happens when companies could do as they pleased and just take a look at China today if you think people wouldn't act like they did 100 years ago today.
 
I thought it was just Montana that is booming but the US labor dept. reported 5.8 million job openings in May.This is the highest number in 10 years.Unemployment rate fell to 4.7 % which is considered full employment.I guess anybody who is willing to work already has a job.
 
Just researched the number of people not in the labor force and your numbers are too low, Bob.According to Gov. records there are 20 million full time students in the US.40.2 million retired folks over 65.48 million housewives who have never worked outside of the home.72.6 million children under the age of 18 not in the labor force.If anyone can't find a job where they are,they should come up to Mt.Bozeman (pop 29000)had 5 full pages of want ads in the Sunday paper.Mostly construction.
 
Bob Dickerson said:
I thought it was just Montana that is booming but the US labor dept. reported 5.8 million job openings in May.This is the highest number in 10 years.Unemployment rate fell to 4.7 % which is considered full employment.I guess anybody who is willing to work already has a job.

I can only assume that you live in a cocoon or never travel. Believing statistics from the Party in power during an election year is questionable and transparent. You need to look to other sources or open your eyes to see that the real unemployment rate is around 9.7 percent. That combined with those who have left the work force, those who have given up looking for jobs because their are no jobs available the figure is substantially higher. Also we have huge pockets of unemployment in many places in the United States where the unemployment rate is double digits. Imperial County, in California for example the unemployment rate is above 21 percent. That is not full employment.
 
Well,it's funny when some folks say government data is wrong and can't be trusted and then pull numbers out of their ........pocket.As the old saying goes,You are entitled to your own opinion,but not your own facts.
 
California and the coastal cities are different animals, I could not survive on 15 dollars an hour in San Francisco. The reason for the long commute time. 1 to 2 hours for what they call the "super commute" 10 minutes on my bike and 35 dollars an hour 2 days a week is doable for me in my situation. I just do not like it here any more. If it wasn't for the huge amount of super hotties in Yoga pants I would go bonkers
 
Bob Dickerson said:
Well,it's funny when some folks say government data is wrong and can't be trusted and then pull numbers out of their ........pocket.As the old saying goes,You are entitled to your own opinion,but not your own facts.

I am not giving you an opinion...I think it is good that you believe what ever statistic the government throws your way...especially during an election year...lots of people do this..so you are in good company....I will take a Harvard or Stanford study any day of the week . I'll even take the State of California's numbers. Do you travel? Don't you see the reality of the unemployment situation in your travels? El Centro and the Imperial Valley is at 21% that is a fact according to the State of California. Flagstaff is 6.5% We are at 6% unemployment according to the State...The old saying goes.............believe what you see....not everything you read...especially during an election year...Full employment...even my dog is laughing.
 
Go to detroit
See all those happy employed people?
Didn't think so
In fact go to any town that was heavily industrialized in the past
No happy prosperous workers
 
wagoneer said:
California and the coastal cities are different animals, I could not survive on 15 dollars an hour in San Francisco. The reason for the long commute time. 1 to 2 hours for what they call the "super commute" 10 minutes on my bike and 35 dollars an hour 2 days a week is doable for me in my situation. I just do not like it here any more. If it wasn't for the huge amount of super hotties in Yoga pants I would go bonkers
same down here in LA i can't figure out who can survive on $15.00 an HR. in my area the average rent is $2,500 a month!!! that's not including utilities and gas and just the basic needs and not wants.. i feel alot of business will fold up and go under because they don't want to pay the minimum wage or they will lay off alot of people and go automated.. and once this new minimum wage kicks what makes these people think that everything won't go up??
 
Every Road Leads Home said:
Umm that's exactly what minimum wage was meant to be.  Quote from FDR himself: "No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country"

and was quite specific on what living wages were:  "By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level, I mean the wages of a decent living"

I don't necessarily believe government should tell private companies what they have to pay, but I do think private companies should pay their fellow humans a decent wage.  But that system doesn't work because money makes some people horrible human beings.  You don't have to look back in history very far to see what happens when companies could do as they pleased and just take a look at China today if you think people wouldn't act like they did 100 years ago today.
can someone pay rent on minimum wage in some areas it's like 7.25 an HR still and it hasn't been raised up to keep up with the times..
 
Mock Turtle: "While I think it may be a good thing for many, it will be inflationary and therefore hard on those of us on fixed incomes."

Sorry, but that's not how inflation works.  Inflation starts at the top and works its way down.  Joe Average at the bottom is the LAST to catch up.  Don't try to blame him for inflation.

Here's a very much simplified version of how it works:
* The Federal Reserve needs more money because they spend it like drunken sailors on shore leave, so they give an order to the U.S. Treasury to tell the Bureau of Engraving and Printing to fire up the presses and print up a lot of new Federal Reserve Notes (what we call paper money with dollar amounts on them) for the Fed to spend.  In addition to that, the Fed creates "money" out of thin air and uses that to pay many govt bills electronically all over the world.  Whenever the Fed increases ('inflates') the number of dollars working through the system, each dollar is worth a little less than before the last gigantic batch was printed.

* When this money is received by other countries, it reduces the value of their own money.

* The producers of U.S. raw materials discover that it costs them more to get those raw materials out of the ground, so they have to raise prices to the companies that buy the the raw materials from them.

* Then it costs the companies that use the raw materials to make things like cars, fighter jets, John Deere tractors, gas turbines and computer chips more than it did the last time, so they have to raise their prices.

* In the next step down, the sellers of the cars, tractors and things that have circuitry in them have to raise their prices.

* When the consumer goes to buy a car, tractor, electronic device, prescription drugs or beer, the price has gone up.

* But when the new inflated price hits Joe Average, he can't afford to buy it.  Our American-based corporations have been focusing solely on profit, so they've outsourced as much as they could to slave-labor countries.  It's what my father used to call "cutting your own throat".  Then the companies start wondering why U.S. citizens aren't buying their products.

* Finally, things get so bad that Joe Average can't even buy the basics, so local govts grudgingly go along with a boost to minimum wage.

The Federal Reserve is the dog's head, Joe Average is the tail.  The tail of the dog isn't telling the front of the dog which way to go, is it?
 
Businesses will simply transfer the cost of higher wages, taxes, and other fees directly to their customers. If there is plenty of competition, the cost increase will be reasonable, which is why you can still get a 99 cent+tax chicken sandwich at Burger King in downtown San Francisco, where minimum wage is 13 bucks an hour.

If, however, their expenses decrease, they simply increase their profit margin. Another case in point: Energizer's high end AA and AAA lithium batteries used to be entirely made in the USA, 2012 and earlier. Now, they are assembled in Singapore, likely from Chinese-sourced materials. Has the price gone down? Of course not.
 
TrainChaser said:
When has a price ever gone down, except for fuel?

I remember when a couple bucks would fill the gas tank.  A Betamax started out at over $1k. Then the VCR came in and since Sony did not have exclusive rights, prices dropped.  Almost all electronics have done the same.  Started out expensive, and the market determined what people would pay.

It just takes a honest free market. What we have here is governments and banks playing with supply to keep the prices high.  No building in SF so rents are going crazy.
 
darude said:
same down here in LA i can't figure out who can survive on $15.00 an HR. in my area the average rent is $2,500 a month!!! that's not including utilities and gas and just the basic needs and not wants.. i feel alot of business will fold up and go under because they don't want to pay the minimum wage or they will lay off alot of people and go automated.. and once this new minimum wage kicks what makes these people think that everything won't go up??




Minimum wage was not designed for people to "survive" on. It was intended only as a minimum base wage for starting workers new to the labor force, marginal performers, second change employees who have had run-ins with the law or former employers, students who are living at home and want a part-time job to obtain work experience to put on their resume for when they apply for their real job, etc. Unfortunately it has morphed into something else entirely. A large part of the problem is a depressed labor market which forces workers to accept compensation for less, depressing wages. Population pressure (not the least of which is due to illegal immigration, foreigners overstaying their student visas, etc.) vs a stagnant economy. It's supply and demand in the labor market. With fewer qualified employees in the labor pool salaries rise, with more, wages fall given the same number of jobs available. In a recession, with less jobs available wages fall, in a recovery, when more jobs are available wages rise. This is why the phrase "jobless recovery" is a misnomer, even a contradiction - just political spin. The way a free market works is when an job seeker shows up at a business to apply for a job, the employer finds him suitable and offers him a wage below what the worker needs, the worker simply rejects the offer and accepts a job at a competitor offering a higher wage. The employer is motivated to offer more to get the qualified help he needs - or choose to hire lower quality help (perhaps people with poor employment records, ex-cons, druggies, etc.) at the wage he is willing to offer and suffer lower productivity and turnover as a result.  The problem with raising minimum wage is it hurts people making a little over minimum wage, as their wages will not increase a proportional amount so what you get is a labor pool consisting of more people earning minimum wage or just a little above. I've seen it happen before. People drawing social security, the disabled and all others living on a fixed income will lose purchasing power as the price of goods and services rise, hurting the most vulnerable people in our society the most. I certainly would like to see people make more money and live a better life, but I'm afraid raising min wage will hurt as many as it helps, as it is a zero sum game. Chip


Chip
 
sushidog said:
Minimum wage was not designed for people to "survive" on. It was intended only as a minimum base wage for starting workers new to the labor force, marginal performers, second change employees who have had run-ins with the law or former employers, students who are living at home and want a part-time job to obtain work experience to put on their resume for when they apply for their real job, etc. 


Chip

You are wrong Chip.  Research history.  FDR meant it as a wage a person could survive on.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/07/f-d-r-makes-the-case-for-the-minimum-wage/


http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=15405
 
Top