Bought the Oasis Firefly Battery

[cortttt]

I purchased the Oasis Firefly battery. 

I am a complete newbie with regard to solar. I'm putting the system together right now.  I certainly took SternWakes admonition to heart that newbies should probably not fool with expensive batteries. 

This is a very expensive battery - $425...

I was surprised that I bought it, actually. It's grace hopefully, though, is that it may be harder for newbies to wreck than other batteries.  (A big reason I bought it).  And it may last longer. The manufacturer asserts you can drain it way down without sulfation occurring and battery life declining.  It's a carbon foam battery. 

From Bruce Schwab's website 

http://www.bruceschwab.com/advanced-energy-storage-systems/firefly-energys-oasis-group-31/

Firefly Oasis G31 Highlights:

• Unparalleled Resistance to Sulfation – Sulfation is what usually kills AGM batteries.  The Oasis carbon foam AGM can operate or be stored at a partial state of charge for long periods of time without a loss in capacity
  
• Depths of  Discharge to 80%-100% of rated capacity without any loss of performance
  
• Superior Life Cycle – capable of 3X the number of deep discharge cycles than that of other lead acid batteries
  
• Strong Performance in Extreme Cold and Heat– performance range is -20° C to 50° C
  
• Fast Bulk Charging and topping up is seldom required
  
• Greater Usable Capacity– you can replace your existing bank with a smaller Oasis bank due to it’s deep discharge capability

The only unusual thing about it I've found so far (thanks to 29Chico) is that the float charging is lower than normal (13.2v)....It does not require equalization charging. 

Any questions or suggestions regarding testing or whatever let me know....I'll report on it on the Forums as soon as I learn how to monitor it.)... Still very much in the learning phase! 


[video=youtube]

 

[highdesertranger]

boy for being a self described newbie, you sure jumped in with both feet. I have never heard of this technology. I looking forward to your results. has anybody else run this type of battery? highdesertranger

 

[jimindenver]

I look forward to your review of it as it"s new to me too>

 

[BradKW]

nice looking battery...if anything, the literature would indicate that it's relatively "newbie proof" as far as it goes.

Not sure I understand how this is a "new thing" while reading their website which seems to indicate they've been making them for 8 years? Maybe I'm misreading something...

 

[cortttt]

boy for being a self described newbie,  you sure jumped in with both feet.  I have never heard of this technology.  I looking forward to your results.  has anybody else run this type of battery?  highdesertranger

Yes I did...Hopefully it will be easier to manage and it will last a long time.  If it does that it will have been worth it; if it doesn't then it won't

 

[cortttt]

nice looking battery...if anything, the literature would indicate that it's relatively "newbie proof" as far as it goes.

Not sure I understand how this is a "new thing" while reading their website which seems to indicate they've been making them for 8 years? Maybe I'm misreading something...

One of my unsolved questions about the Firefly Oasis is why, if this is such a great battery, why is the guy I bought it from in Huntington Beach - a very nice guy - young guy - selling them out of his garage?

They are more expensive but I would think they would be more available...

They might even match up price wise if you want a sealed battery and can use fewer batteries...

 

[highdesertranger]

your in HB I am in Placentia. highdesertranger

 

[SternWake]

I've been very interested in this Oasis Firefly battery. I have not really heard enough about them by those who are completely unbiased and have been waiting it out. It will take some time before the merits of this battery will be proven or disproven.

These have been mentioned many times on the Cruisers forums and their proponents know way more than I do on this general subject, but I want real, unbiased data.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/lifepo-or-carbon-foam-agm-157678.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/agm-fire-fly-battery-147542.html

When regular AGMS first came out they made many similar claims as to performance, PSOC cycling and resistance to sulfation, most of which have proven very false in the 30 ensuing years though most of the marketing still makes the magical claims.

If I were to test this battery over time I would want to know exactly how deeply I was cycling it, via a well programmed and often rezeroed Amp hour counter, and see the voltage it can maintain cycle after cycle when a known amount is removed from it. I'd want to see how long it took when new for amps to taper to the prescribed level at absorption voltage, and see how much that changed with more accumulated cycles.

Also, for a real valid scientific test, I'd need to know how close it was returned to fully charged, how often it was discharged, and to what level of discharge, and the charging sources, their maximum voltages, how long they were applied, how much amperage they could deliver in the time they were deployed and how close they got the battery to the prescribed 100% threshold.



Mainesail can do a true 20 hour capacity test with all the precise tools for doing so accurately, and in the little documentation found on this battery it does indeed to appear to be able to return to 100% capacity after many cycles without reaching full charge, but it appears to require 2 or more full promptly applied precise 100% recharges after a 50% depletion for the capacity to return, and the full charge 'could' be just as difficult and time consuming to achieve as on regular lead acid batteries.

The problem with regular lead acid batteries is the time it takes getting from 80% to 100% even under ideal charge voltages held long enough, and the importance of achieving that 100% regularly, as often as possible. If this battery can be restored to full capacity after much partial state of charge cycling, it indeed is a game changer, even if the efforts of restoring capacity to 100% after much PSOC cycling abuse are rather intensive. As with regular lead acid batteries, EQ charging can restore the battery back to its full remaining capacity, but the remaining capacity can be a level well below original when new capacity, and it can also be intensive, with little positive result if the sulfation is bad enough, and EQ charging usually requires special tools which can see, EQ voltages in the 15.5 to 16.2v range.

I'd love to test this battery, but I am currently beating the piss out of a northstar AGM battery, cycling it hard, often, but also making sure it gets its occasional high amp recharge and can reach a true time consuming 100% State of Charge, as often as possible.

If it does not get the occasional high amp recharge and the often achieved 100%, it would likely be recycled and replaced at this point, instead of impressing me greatly.

I think it would be great if newbie just did not obsess the charging details, just treat it like it does not really require the same treatment as regular lead acid batteries, and see how well it does and for how long.

if a Newb can get 3 or more years or ~1000+ deep cycles cycling the piss out of it not worrying about achieving the full recharge but every few dozen deep cycles, well that would be freaking awesome.

If true, I'd halt my LifePo4 plans in their tracks. But I am a cynic, and as much as i respect Mainesail and nigel caldwell on this subject, they are friends with the maker of this battery and as such, biased to some unknown degree.

So It would be awesome to have an unbiased review of longevity and performance during that longevity.

But to properly observe a battery as its capacity declines is not a task for a newbie unless they have both the aptitude and desire, and tools to monitor the capacity and loss there of as the cycles accumulate.

A simple voltmeter would never do, unless one had good basis for comparison along with the amp hour counter, and that would require experience a Newb would not have.

Be a good learning process though.

 

[Gunny]

A quick question; My 89 Bounder has the stock charger in it. It has two old 6 volts that I have no idea if they are going to hold a charge or not.. If I were to go to a battery such as this would I need a new or different charger?

 

[SternWake]

Gunny, Likely so.

Stock converters are usually single voltage units, especially from that era, the single voltage being 13.6 or 13.8v.

Charging voltage in the 13's greatly extend charge time to full, and float voltages in the mid to high 13s are too high for this Oasis firelly battery.

Your old 6 volts are likely not happy or healthy. any new battery you get, should have a charging source which can at least approach thee battery manufacturer specs as to charging voltages. These expensive AGMS are more finicky as to charge voltages, compared to golf cart batteries.

The golf cart battery is very resistant to abuse, but not immune. At this point in time it is still the best bang for the buck, and especially when one's battery compartment is already set up for them.

I'd recommend replacing the GC-2 batteries, and the converter with an Iota DLS 45 or 55 or a PD9245 or 9260 or 9270, the final 2 numbers representing the maximum amperage they can deliver. the single stage magnatec converter usualy provided in RVs of 89 vintage are known battery killers as they do not recharge to full quickly, and if left plugged in, with enough time will overcharge them and cause excessive water loss and plate exposure and a quick battery demise from there.

You might certainly be able to get more cycles from the batteries you have, but their capacity is likely very compromised. Whether the remaining capacity can meet your needs, is something only you can answer. And if/when your needs increase, the batteries could quickly be pushed off the cliff with the increased work load, and you will be at the stage of having to replace them then, and it might not be convenient to do so at that point in time.

Battery charging need not be taken to ridiculous lengths, but certain minimums should be utilized, and any current 3 or 4 stage converter offering will be miles ahead of the old magnatec single voltage converters and greatly extend battery life and useful power one has on hand after a limited time to recharge.

 

[Gunny]

Such as this? I won't hijack the thread further.. And thanks for the help.

https://www.amazon.com/DLS-45-AUTOM...F8&qid=1466539477&sr=8-2&keywords=iota+dls-45

 

[cortttt]

I think it would be great if  newbie just did not obsess the charging details, just treat it like it does not really require the same treatment as regular lead acid batteries, and see how well it does and for how long.

if a Newb can get 3 or more years  or ~1000+ deep cycles cycling the piss out of it not worrying about achieving the full recharge but every few dozen deep cycles, well that would be freaking awesome.

At this point Newbie plans to work hard to get the settings right (need to use a computer to do that) and then live and let live with this battery, doing restoration charges every now and then and otherwise letting it alone...in other words probably doing things that would torture the heck out of a normal battery.

 

[ccbreder]

Maine Sail had a very good report about these batteries as compared to other agm batteries. His article was in Practical Sailor of May 2015.

 

[ccbreder]

Post no 5 in this forum thread; http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/203266-practical-sailor-agm-battery-report.html

 

[cortttt]

One thing to note - these batteries may be a bit bigger than other batteries. They're size 31 - they don't fit in my Minn Kota Battery box.

 

[cortttt]

Firefly battery "leakng"

After using the battery on and off for about a month or so I took the battery box cover off to find the top of the battery drenched in liquid. The liquid is coming from the metal looking circles on the battery which Ricky - the guy who sold me the battery - said were vent ports. (The battery is sold as sealed but the literature said it will vent for the first 20 or 30 cycles).

Putting baking soda on the metal circles indicated that battery acid is indeed coming out of the top of the battery. Ricky said this problem was supposed to have been fixed.  It's happening oddly enough even when the battery is not being used - small bubbles appear on one of the metal circles every couple of hours - even when the battery is not engaged. 

It looks like one of vent ports is leaking acid (upwards (lol) quite a bit and a couple of others are leaking it in much smaller amounts (they fizz when baking soda is applied but they are not bubbling). 

I attached a picture of the bubbles - it's not a very good one - I had trouble getting my camera to take one but it shows a couple of bubbles on the metal circle on the left

 

[SternWake]

Well, donkey balls.

Hows it perform otherwise?

Go up chain of command.

 

[cortttt]

Well,  donkey balls.

Hows it perform otherwise?

Go up chain of command.

Donkey balls indeed. 

It seems to be performing fine from what I can tell - which honestly is not much...

I've been using it on and off. I have extreme chemical sensitivities and the battery was making me nauseous. I just moved it to the back of the vehicle and I'll probably put a partition in the back to shield it from the rest of the van. The battery does out gas for a time; I don't know if that time is up or not but that may have contributed. The battery seems to get powered up pretty quickly from what I can tell but  like I said, it's really been on an off thing. 

The distributor Rickey said the vents can be replaced and he'll send them over. Unfortunately I'm on the road in Oregon and don't have a place to pick them up right now but I'll get them at some point.

 

[rvpopeye]

And don't let any of that baking soda get into the battery!

 

[cortttt]

And don't let any of that baking soda get into the battery!

Thanks for the warning....


Here's the latest from Rickey, 

[font=arial, sans-serif]But I think your issue is less pernicious than it seems and can be explained by the manufacturing process, which is to overfill the battery, charge it thus venting and allowing the overfilled electrolyte to bubble out, then wipe off the excess and replace the valves with clean ones. There have been a few batches where the batteries were merely wiped down and not given clean valves. In this case, any venting would push out electrolyte that have been trapped during the initial charging.[/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif]In this case, an easy fix is just to replace the valves with clean ones. A wrench is all that is necessary to do this.[/font]